Identified! WI - Clinton, 'River Guy' WhtMale 1207UMWI, 17-20, 'Venom' TShirt, Nov'95 - Carl Junior Isaacs
- Thread starter CarlK90245
- Start date
ChatteringBirds
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2019
- Messages
- 9,526
- Reaction score
- 46,782
May this young man rest in peace. He has his name back now.
carbuff
Well-Known Member
Rest in peace, Carl Isaacs.
What an attractive young man. Good thing I didn't meet him when I was 18. I would have made some unwise decisions for sure.
What an attractive young man. Good thing I didn't meet him when I was 18. I would have made some unwise decisions for sure.
victoriarobinson642
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
- Messages
- 4,249
- Reaction score
- 14,975
Looks like Delavan is pretty close to Clinton.
imstilla.grandma
Believer of Miracles
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2018
- Messages
- 30,671
- Reaction score
- 208,462
“I’m kinda sad to have to get together and discuss the untimely death of a young individual in our community, but I am glad to finally be able to bring a little bit of resolution to the individual’s identity,” Rock Co. Sheriff Troy Knudson said Tuesday.
The investigation will now shift from identification to determining how he died, Knudson announced. He declined to share details about the family or why he said Isaacs was never reported missing, and cited the ongoing investigation.
“We’re really looking to flesh out exactly who he was and how he found himself in that particular location,” he said. “That’s where we’re really looking to the community to help provide some of those details for us.”
'John Clinton Doe' remains found in 1995 identified by Rock Co. authoritiesI
The investigation will now shift from identification to determining how he died, Knudson announced. He declined to share details about the family or why he said Isaacs was never reported missing, and cited the ongoing investigation.
“We’re really looking to flesh out exactly who he was and how he found himself in that particular location,” he said. “That’s where we’re really looking to the community to help provide some of those details for us.”
'John Clinton Doe' remains found in 1995 identified by Rock Co. authoritiesI
Last edited:
Ooooh, I was thinking the exact same thing!!
ChatteringBirds
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2019
- Messages
- 9,526
- Reaction score
- 46,782
I am interested in the psychology of it. 10 years before he passed-away, he was a 10-year-old boy, probably riding his bike, playing video or board games, nervous about starting middle school next year.
So what happened in his life that he had so much anger and so little peace by his teens?
That everyone gave up to the point he was never reported missing?
So what happened in his life that he had so much anger and so little peace by his teens?
That everyone gave up to the point he was never reported missing?
Last edited by a moderator:
Why would the skull be separated from the rest of the bones and cremated.....while the rest was buried?!?
It should all have been kept together and buried together.
MOO.
(I live in the area, so some of what I'm writing here is in that context.)
WISC-TV (CBS) and WMSN-TV are both reporting that a source from the Rock County Sheriff's Office told them today that Carl Isaacs walked away from the Walworth County Jail in April 1995. At that time, the jail was at 100 W Walworth St in Elkhorn, WI, which is close to Highway 43.
Isaacs' minor criminal history from when he was 17 yo can be viewed at Wisconsin Circuit Court Access. Those records aren't thorough, but it looks like he was sentenced as an adult to five years in jail. Last year, there was new activity on those old felony cases, consisting of letters. Descriptions of these letters are scant but interesting. Probation is mentioned in one of them. It looks like current investigators have had questions about events surrounding Isaacs' sentence and his whereabouts from that time. (I'm sure they have!)
Seven months after Carl Isaacs allegedly walked away from the Walworth County Jail, his body was found in the woods 22 miles southwest of the jail at [NAMUS] GPS coordinates: 42.5966290, -88.8466210. This is right down Highway from the old jail, plus a short walk on rural roads and through the woods along Turtle Creek.
Both the jail and the location where he was found are close to the same major highway. If he had gone directly from the jail to hide out where he was found, he would have passed the three exits that would have most conveniently taken him to his most recent known addresses in Delavan, WI and Walworth, WI.
Years ago, it had been reported that River Man/Clinton John Doe had died in the Fall or Winter of 1994, possibly of hypothermia, but more recently it's been reported that forensics puts his death around May-June 1995. If Isaacs was last seen at the jail in April 1995 and died in the woods shortly after that, it seems less unlikely that he died of hypothermia, unless possibly it was very early April? Still, he was young, and if he was healthy it just doesn't seem that likely to me. I'm just guessing though.
There was no evidence of drugs on the body or at the site. (I have read that a hair analysis was negative but that would only show long-term use.) Apparently, nothing on the clothing set off any forensic alarm bells, and there were no bony injuries.
If (perhaps) not hypothermia and (perhaps) not drugs and with no injuries on the bones, I wonder how hard they still lean toward natural causes on a presumably healthy 20 yo running or walking in the woods in April-June.
This isn't isolated woods. There are lots of barns and outbuildings in that area. (I live close, and I once had a runaway in one of my buildings.)
Here's the part that most interests me. All this time, it's been said that Carl Isaacs was never reported missing, but that isn't technically accurate. Less than nine months after Isaacs' body was found in Rock County, a criminal complaint was filed against him 22 miles away in Walworth County on 08-13-1996. On 08-20-1996, a warrant was issued for his arrest on a felony count under WI Statute 946.42--escape from custody. (I wonder why the arrest warrant was issued 16 months after the news claims he walked away from custody. That seems like a very long time to wait to track down an escapee.)
So, not long after an inmate went missing in one county, a body matching his description was found in the next county. And while the investigation of that unidentified body was still in its early stages, a warrant was issued for his arrest. So, in that sense, he was definitely reported missing. (All these places--Elkhorn, Delavan, Walworth, Clinton, Bradford--are pretty small communities, between 1,000 and 10,000 people. And while the news of the body was talked about everywhere, an escape of a young guy from jail on very minor charges just wasn't known.)
I wonder if his family assumed he was on the run from the law and didn't look back? Who knows?
Pretty sad case. For what he did, messing with some weed wackers and some golf carts, and for being just 17 yo, charging him as an adult and sentencing to five years in jail seems a little extra.
Here's the press conference from earlier today.
WISC-TV (CBS) and WMSN-TV are both reporting that a source from the Rock County Sheriff's Office told them today that Carl Isaacs walked away from the Walworth County Jail in April 1995. At that time, the jail was at 100 W Walworth St in Elkhorn, WI, which is close to Highway 43.
Isaacs' minor criminal history from when he was 17 yo can be viewed at Wisconsin Circuit Court Access. Those records aren't thorough, but it looks like he was sentenced as an adult to five years in jail. Last year, there was new activity on those old felony cases, consisting of letters. Descriptions of these letters are scant but interesting. Probation is mentioned in one of them. It looks like current investigators have had questions about events surrounding Isaacs' sentence and his whereabouts from that time. (I'm sure they have!)
Seven months after Carl Isaacs allegedly walked away from the Walworth County Jail, his body was found in the woods 22 miles southwest of the jail at [NAMUS] GPS coordinates: 42.5966290, -88.8466210. This is right down Highway from the old jail, plus a short walk on rural roads and through the woods along Turtle Creek.
Both the jail and the location where he was found are close to the same major highway. If he had gone directly from the jail to hide out where he was found, he would have passed the three exits that would have most conveniently taken him to his most recent known addresses in Delavan, WI and Walworth, WI.
Years ago, it had been reported that River Man/Clinton John Doe had died in the Fall or Winter of 1994, possibly of hypothermia, but more recently it's been reported that forensics puts his death around May-June 1995. If Isaacs was last seen at the jail in April 1995 and died in the woods shortly after that, it seems less unlikely that he died of hypothermia, unless possibly it was very early April? Still, he was young, and if he was healthy it just doesn't seem that likely to me. I'm just guessing though.
There was no evidence of drugs on the body or at the site. (I have read that a hair analysis was negative but that would only show long-term use.) Apparently, nothing on the clothing set off any forensic alarm bells, and there were no bony injuries.
If (perhaps) not hypothermia and (perhaps) not drugs and with no injuries on the bones, I wonder how hard they still lean toward natural causes on a presumably healthy 20 yo running or walking in the woods in April-June.
This isn't isolated woods. There are lots of barns and outbuildings in that area. (I live close, and I once had a runaway in one of my buildings.)
Here's the part that most interests me. All this time, it's been said that Carl Isaacs was never reported missing, but that isn't technically accurate. Less than nine months after Isaacs' body was found in Rock County, a criminal complaint was filed against him 22 miles away in Walworth County on 08-13-1996. On 08-20-1996, a warrant was issued for his arrest on a felony count under WI Statute 946.42--escape from custody. (I wonder why the arrest warrant was issued 16 months after the news claims he walked away from custody. That seems like a very long time to wait to track down an escapee.)
So, not long after an inmate went missing in one county, a body matching his description was found in the next county. And while the investigation of that unidentified body was still in its early stages, a warrant was issued for his arrest. So, in that sense, he was definitely reported missing. (All these places--Elkhorn, Delavan, Walworth, Clinton, Bradford--are pretty small communities, between 1,000 and 10,000 people. And while the news of the body was talked about everywhere, an escape of a young guy from jail on very minor charges just wasn't known.)
I wonder if his family assumed he was on the run from the law and didn't look back? Who knows?
Pretty sad case. For what he did, messing with some weed wackers and some golf carts, and for being just 17 yo, charging him as an adult and sentencing to five years in jail seems a little extra.
Here's the press conference from earlier today.
Blurgle
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2019
- Messages
- 452
- Reaction score
- 2,256
We don't have detailed weather reports for that area of Wisconsin for April 1995, but Weather Underground has intermittent temperature records for about half the month - and a lot of days had lows below 50ºF, and a few were below 32ºF even in late April.
Let's keep in mind that it absolutely does not have to reach below freezing for a healthy young person to die of hypothermia. This is a very common myth, but it's perfectly possible for an inadequately clothed healthy young adult to suffer hypothermia at temperatures above 50ºF. Add a dunk in a creek, alcohol ingestion, or even drugs and that temperature could go even higher.
I'm not saying that he absolutely did die of hypothermia, but given his clothing and his location there wasn't a day that month for which we have records for which hypothermia can be ruled out.
I live in the area as well. Late April temperatures are generally in the 50’s or 60’s. It is not unheard of to have 70 and 80 degree weather. But I can see where hypothermia could be a viable cause of death in this situation. I also believe he may have died of natural causes.
I do think it is interesting that the police waited to long to issue a warrant for his arrest. The police don’t normally wait that long to issue a warrant as long as they can show cause. There are so many unknowns in this case. My question is now ,with the information they have, are they going to go over the old evidence?
Turtle Creek is accessible and many people go there in spring. Those who walk in almost always walk out, including the ones with well-stocked beer coolers. (This is Wisconsin, and that's such a thing. LOL.) However, walking out would be far less likely if someone were to go there in just a t-shirt and flannel shirt in Nov-Mar. That would be an high risk of death.
While hypothermia seemed nearly certain on the old forensic timeline (late Fall 1994 through Winter 1995), on the new forensic timeline (May-June 1995), it's much less likely. It's now proved that the old timeline is impossible. Isaacs was still alive in Elkhorn in April 1995, so he didn't die before April. He might have died in April, but the latest forensics suggested that it was more likely May-June 1995. His body was 97% skeletonized by the end of November.
Less risk means other scenarios could be as likely or even more likely. If he was alone that whole time, nobody knows. If not, more information may still be forthcoming.
This doesn't mean that he couldn't have died of hypothermia. Add in alcohol (possible, although no evidence has ever been presented for this), drugs (no traces or paraphernalia), dehydration and/or hunger/starvation (unknown, but both increase risk), potentially many days outdoors (unknown), and possibly a fall in the creek (unknown), and it definitely could have happened.
Might be. Might not be. Maybe he tried to live alone in the woods by himself for one too many days. Maybe he felt like the police were always right behind him, so he was afraid to take refuge in a barn or other outbuilding. And he did lose that one shoe somehow, so....
While hypothermia seemed nearly certain on the old forensic timeline (late Fall 1994 through Winter 1995), on the new forensic timeline (May-June 1995), it's much less likely. It's now proved that the old timeline is impossible. Isaacs was still alive in Elkhorn in April 1995, so he didn't die before April. He might have died in April, but the latest forensics suggested that it was more likely May-June 1995. His body was 97% skeletonized by the end of November.
Less risk means other scenarios could be as likely or even more likely. If he was alone that whole time, nobody knows. If not, more information may still be forthcoming.
This doesn't mean that he couldn't have died of hypothermia. Add in alcohol (possible, although no evidence has ever been presented for this), drugs (no traces or paraphernalia), dehydration and/or hunger/starvation (unknown, but both increase risk), potentially many days outdoors (unknown), and possibly a fall in the creek (unknown), and it definitely could have happened.
Might be. Might not be. Maybe he tried to live alone in the woods by himself for one too many days. Maybe he felt like the police were always right behind him, so he was afraid to take refuge in a barn or other outbuilding. And he did lose that one shoe somehow, so....
Skeletal remains discovered in a remote wooded area along Turtle Creek near Clinton, Wisconsin in 1995 have been positively identified as Carl J. Isaacs, Jr. after comparison to the DNA from his deceased father.
The DNA Doe Project previously announced that the case had been solved in 2019, but withheld the name at the request of authorities.
Carl J. Isaacs, Jr. was identified after only two weeks of investigative genetic genealogy work, but confirmation of the identification would have to wait until this year when his DNA was compared to a close family member by the University of North Texas School of Biological Science Forensic Unit.
“Usually, we are able to use the DNA of living relatives to confirm the identities of our Does, but in this case there was no one close enough to meet the standards set by the medical examiner,” said DNA Doe Project co-founded Margaret Press. “It’s a testament to the commitment of the Rock County team to definitively solve this case that they took the extraordinary step of exhuming Mr. Isaacs’ father in order to confirm the identification.”
Jack Friess, a private investigator from Stevens Point and who had been working on identifying John Clinton Doe since 2013, referred this case to the DNA Doe Project in 2018. Mr. Friess took a co-leadership role on the casework within the DNA Doe Project, and was a dedicated advocate for the use of investigative genetic genealogy and the case of John Clinton Doe particularly. His leadership helped the genealogists to identify Carl Isaacs, who had walked away from Walworth Co jail in April 1995. “Mostly because of the remote location of the body, we always assumed JCD was a local boy, and about that we were right. We just were unable to identify him using traditional (old school) investigation tools. I’m honored to have been part of finally giving this young man back his name,” he said. Mr. Friess retired from his volunteer role as Case Information Specialist with the DNA Doe Project earlier this year.
The DNA Doe Project wishes to acknowledge the contributions of the groups and individuals who helped solve this case: the Rock County Sheriff’s Office, who entrusted the case to the DNA Doe Project; Bode Technology and Fulgent Genetics; Gregory Magoon for bioinformatics, UNT forensic laboratory; GEDmatch Pro for providing their database; our generous donors who contributed to this case; and DDP’s dedicated teams of volunteer investigative genetic genealogists who work tirelessly to bring victims home.
dnadoeproject.org
The DNA Doe Project previously announced that the case had been solved in 2019, but withheld the name at the request of authorities.
Carl J. Isaacs, Jr. was identified after only two weeks of investigative genetic genealogy work, but confirmation of the identification would have to wait until this year when his DNA was compared to a close family member by the University of North Texas School of Biological Science Forensic Unit.
“Usually, we are able to use the DNA of living relatives to confirm the identities of our Does, but in this case there was no one close enough to meet the standards set by the medical examiner,” said DNA Doe Project co-founded Margaret Press. “It’s a testament to the commitment of the Rock County team to definitively solve this case that they took the extraordinary step of exhuming Mr. Isaacs’ father in order to confirm the identification.”
Jack Friess, a private investigator from Stevens Point and who had been working on identifying John Clinton Doe since 2013, referred this case to the DNA Doe Project in 2018. Mr. Friess took a co-leadership role on the casework within the DNA Doe Project, and was a dedicated advocate for the use of investigative genetic genealogy and the case of John Clinton Doe particularly. His leadership helped the genealogists to identify Carl Isaacs, who had walked away from Walworth Co jail in April 1995. “Mostly because of the remote location of the body, we always assumed JCD was a local boy, and about that we were right. We just were unable to identify him using traditional (old school) investigation tools. I’m honored to have been part of finally giving this young man back his name,” he said. Mr. Friess retired from his volunteer role as Case Information Specialist with the DNA Doe Project earlier this year.
The DNA Doe Project wishes to acknowledge the contributions of the groups and individuals who helped solve this case: the Rock County Sheriff’s Office, who entrusted the case to the DNA Doe Project; Bode Technology and Fulgent Genetics; Gregory Magoon for bioinformatics, UNT forensic laboratory; GEDmatch Pro for providing their database; our generous donors who contributed to this case; and DDP’s dedicated teams of volunteer investigative genetic genealogists who work tirelessly to bring victims home.
John Clinton Doe - DNA Doe Project
John Clinton Doe or JCD is the name given to an unidentified teen found by hunters on November 26, 1995 in a remote wooded area along Turtle Creek in Bradford Township, Rock County, near Clinton, Wisconsin. The 97% decomposed skeleton was discovered fully clothed with distinctive...
dnadoeproject.org
GatorFL
Well-Known Member
Sad that he was never reported missing.
doggybag2355
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2020
- Messages
- 851
- Reaction score
- 2,854
An excerpt from the DDP's announcement on Mr. Isaacs, for those worried that police were holding out:
“Usually, we are able to use the DNA of living relatives to confirm the identities of our Does, but in this case there was no one close enough to meet the standards set by the medical examiner,” said DNA Doe Project co-founded Margaret Press. “It’s a testament to the commitment of the Rock County team to definitively solve this case that they took the extraordinary step of exhuming Mr. Isaacs’ father in order to confirm the identification.”
“Usually, we are able to use the DNA of living relatives to confirm the identities of our Does, but in this case there was no one close enough to meet the standards set by the medical examiner,” said DNA Doe Project co-founded Margaret Press. “It’s a testament to the commitment of the Rock County team to definitively solve this case that they took the extraordinary step of exhuming Mr. Isaacs’ father in order to confirm the identification.”
carbuff
Well-Known Member
Yes, very sad.
Unfortunately, fugitives aren't generally reported missing, since it's assumed they fled on their own. They're on outstanding warrant lists, not missing people databases. I suspect quite a number of our unidentified cases have walked away from jail, work detail, halfway house, etc. and not reported missing.
FaerieDust
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2021
- Messages
- 51
- Reaction score
- 255
My previous post was removed because of a message I quoted so I’ll post the part that I wanted to make sure was here.
Rest in peace Carl. Glad your fanily knows where you are and what happened.
You deserved to live and learn from your mistakes, no matter your teenage indiscretions.
We are all prone to making bad choices when our lives seem in freefall or in a tough place. From one outsider to another, keep on rocking. I won’t be able to listen to Venom without thinking of you.
Rest in peace Carl. Glad your fanily knows where you are and what happened.
You deserved to live and learn from your mistakes, no matter your teenage indiscretions.
We are all prone to making bad choices when our lives seem in freefall or in a tough place. From one outsider to another, keep on rocking. I won’t be able to listen to Venom without thinking of you.
Alleykins
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2016
- Messages
- 6,324
- Reaction score
- 11,667
There have been a couple of cases where the family didn't report the person missing because they were in some sort of trouble. Denise Beaudin's family didn't report her missing because they believed she skipped town due to financial troubles, and Kimberlin Mills and Jim Hendricks families didn't report them because they believed the couple was running from the law. IIRC
There are a few more details in a video from WISC-TV, including an interview with Gary Gilbank, who was in the group that found Isaacs' body in 1995.
It seems that Carl had more possessions ("garbage bag") with him than have been publicly listed. Maybe he was trying to survive out there for days or weeks.
I hope they find out how he got clothing and possessions after fleeing the Walworth County Jail in Elkhorn, WI. I wonder if the unique pendant was one of his possessions before his escape or if he obtained it later. It's unique enough that someone who knew him might remember.
It seems that Carl had more possessions ("garbage bag") with him than have been publicly listed. Maybe he was trying to survive out there for days or weeks.
I hope they find out how he got clothing and possessions after fleeing the Walworth County Jail in Elkhorn, WI. I wonder if the unique pendant was one of his possessions before his escape or if he obtained it later. It's unique enough that someone who knew him might remember.
Last edited: