Schatz
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Would the tower(s) in question cover a mini-mart? Or more desolate area? I’m sure this has already been analyzed somewhere in these 147 threads. Anyone know off-hand?
Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147
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Would the tower(s) in question cover a mini-mart? Or more desolate area? I’m sure this has already been analyzed somewhere in these 147 threads. Anyone know off-hand?
Here's the map put together by @skibaboo
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps
October 2022 UPDATE - THEY GOT HIM! Indiana man, 50, arrested on murder charges in 2017 killings of 2 teenage girls Richard M. Allen, of Delphi, was arrested on two counts of murder, police said. Abigail “Abby” Williams, 13, and Liberty “Libby” German, 14, vanished while hiking in Delphi, their...
At the time it appears that there is one tower to the SW of the trails and a second that is WNW of the trail area. Considering the circular coverage of a tower it might well cover parts of the town as well as the trail area. Even if LE can obtain a 90 or 120 degree sector of that circular area that covers a lot of ground.
FrostedGlass
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@JnRyan
In the post by cujenn81
www.websleuths.com
"Robert Ives told SOC that he personally submitted several subpoenas to obtain all cell phone records from phones within a five mile radius of the trails to determine who was in the area that day. All owners of cell phones that pinged in the area of the bridge were contacted regarding their activities and asked about what they had seen. Investigators paid special attention to phone records of anyone who was new to the area or had spent several hours in the area during the time in question."
In the post by cujenn81
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124
What gives you this confidence? Why do you think there’s no action on the case since that PC? I think, they know since the PC and they aren't able, to dot the i's and cross the t's for at least 110%, which will be required, IMO. It seems, the public can't help any more. I'm waiting unpatiently...
www.websleuths.com
"Robert Ives told SOC that he personally submitted several subpoenas to obtain all cell phone records from phones within a five mile radius of the trails to determine who was in the area that day. All owners of cell phones that pinged in the area of the bridge were contacted regarding their activities and asked about what they had seen. Investigators paid special attention to phone records of anyone who was new to the area or had spent several hours in the area during the time in question."
Cell phones and location determination is not easy to explain, but this article in the New Yorker helps.
www.newyorker.com
Note that this article predates the SCOTUS 2018 decision in Carpenter v. US.
What Your Cell Phone Can’t Tell the Police
On May 28th, Lisa Marie Roberts, of Portland, Oregon, was released from prison after serving nine and a half years for a murder she didn’t commit. A key …
Note that this article predates the SCOTUS 2018 decision in Carpenter v. US.
Interesting. But Ives retired a year or two after the murders. And the murders were committed prior to the 2018 court case. I wonder if that is allowed now. And if the SCOTUS decision does not allow it now, what is the status of the results of such records?@JnRyan
In the post by cujenn81
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124
What gives you this confidence? Why do you think there’s no action on the case since that PC? I think, they know since the PC and they aren't able, to dot the i's and cross the t's for at least 110%, which will be required, IMO. It seems, the public can't help any more. I'm waiting unpatiently...
"Robert Ives told SOC that he personally submitted several subpoenas to obtain all cell phone records from phones within a five mile radius of the trails to determine who was in the area that day. All owners of cell phones that pinged in the area of the bridge were contacted regarding their activities and asked about what they had seen. Investigators paid special attention to phone records of anyone who was new to the area or had spent several hours in the area during the time in question."
helpfulcharlie
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@JnRyan
In the post by cujenn81
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124
What gives you this confidence? Why do you think there’s no action on the case since that PC? I think, they know since the PC and they aren't able, to dot the i's and cross the t's for at least 110%, which will be required, IMO. It seems, the public can't help any more. I'm waiting unpatiently...
"Robert Ives told SOC that he personally submitted several subpoenas to obtain all cell phone records from phones within a five mile radius of the trails to determine who was in the area that day. All owners of cell phones that pinged in the area of the bridge were contacted regarding their activities and asked about what they had seen. Investigators paid special attention to phone records of anyone who was new to the area or had spent several hours in the area during the time in question."
This is the kind of investigative avenue that fascinates me.
Imagine starting with a list of every cell that pinged off the tower, then giving a soft rule-out to obvious rule-outs, then focusing in on what's left.
There'll always be a subset that can't be identified (burners etc) but then imagine going back with that unidentified list, and saying, tell me where these phones have been before and since. If a phone was active for, say, a month prior to the event, then went dark, that's something to look at. And even people who think they have good opsec make mistakes. Phones give up so much info about our day-to-day activities. I have to imagine they have a list and the perp is on it, but going through that list is a complicated endeavor.
Boy I screwed up that quote. Privacy browsers make it difficult. Sorry.
FrostedGlass
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I have no legal background so I'm pretty clueless; however, sometimes things are 'grandfathered' in. I have no idea if the results would be or not. Maybe it's a moot issue = he didn't find anything.
I'm not a lawyer either but sometimes a "good faith exception" to the exclusionary rule can be granted, which permits the government to use unconstitutionally obtained evidence to convict defendants if such evidence was collected in reliance on prior law. It would depend on the facts of the individual case. JMO
M. Kay
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This is "helpful" (Charlie); here's hoping one of the investigators can calculate as well as you. Though I recall there were ins-and-outs about two towers in the small town area, for me the significant phone question in this case concerns one hidden and cleared by K's. It reappeared in their kitchen sans data. A bag of phones was taken from that den of iniquity, yet was LE outwitted? Hope I'm in error, haunted that one phone linked Klines to client(s) who killed Abby Williams & Libby German.
sunshineray
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I wonder if they checked all the cable companies wifi's in the area? Aren't there ways to "borrow" wifi? Was that mentioned in the Kline case, in that redacted LE interview maybe? I ask about that because the anthony_shots account seems to have borrowed the neighbor last name...minus one letter.Here's the map put together by @skibaboo
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps
October 2022 UPDATE - THEY GOT HIM! Indiana man, 50, arrested on murder charges in 2017 killings of 2 teenage girls Richard M. Allen, of Delphi, was arrested on two counts of murder, police said. Abigail “Abby” Williams, 13, and Liberty “Libby” German, 14, vanished while hiking in Delphi, their...www.google.com
At the time it appears that there is one tower to the SW of the trails and a second that is WNW of the trail area. Considering the circular coverage of a tower it might well cover parts of the town as well as the trail area. Even if LE can obtain a 90 or 120 degree sector of that circular area that covers a lot of ground.
1:15 time stamp
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Yeah, that's my problem as I'm an auditor and CPA by profession. I suppose my problem with it is that they didn't find a problem with it INITIALLY. But what if a new investigator comes and says 'We want to start at the beginning and fresh'. Can they go back to that data OR is any result not allowed in a trial? (The new start with new staff has already happened at least once as Kelsi German stated she was interviewed again in Sept 2020 and she didn't know any of the investigators. They said they were new staff and starting in the beginning.) But I'm not an attorney. I know if I were an investigator it would be very hard to ignore if I still had the data.
Good thought. WiFi is one way to avoid showing up on a cell tower dump.
carbuff
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Investigators going back to the beginning with fresh eyes and re-interviewing everybody, etc. seems to be a fairly common thing to do with a difficult case. I hadn't thought about the issues related to dealing with old evidence, but that could conceivably be quite a problem with the kind of data we're talking about here.
Well sunshineray, since you brought it up. I went down the rabbit hole of lesser known "social websites" KAK had used in the past. In one of them was a slogan? or theme? (not sure what you call those inspirational quotes) and he had put it on his page. It was a coach/basketball and (paraphrasing) "If you are ever going to score any points in life, you have to take the shot." I thought it was interesting because KAK didn't seem like the type who would be into posting "sports cliches." He found it significant enough to have on his cover page. I hesitated in sharing this a long time ago, because I had some really bad experiences. Don't ask me to find it again. Yahoo....I found it!!
You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. - Michael Scott
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carbuff
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Gunshots
Arkay
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I enjoyed The Office, but it was Wayne Gretzky who came up with that quote about missing 100% of the shots you don't take.
We don't know if KAK identified with this well-known athlete's credo. Maybe KAK is no athlete but still followed sports.
Maybe he identified with the show "Hamilton." The song "I Am Not Throwing Away My Shot" was extremely popular and inspired people in many areas. I certainly hope it didn't inspire KAK.
Maybe he liked to knock back shots at a bar with some guy named Anthony.
It could really be anything. I mean, the Son of Sam killer identified with his neighbor's dog. Who knows what people feel connected with, especially if their thinking is disordered.
Jmo
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ARKAY, Yeah "shots" could have a lot of meanings and origins, but this is the one he chose to put on HIS page and right under his name. Sure, I'm probably grasping at straws, but who isn't on this case? I thought it was significant since he took the "scattershot" method of trying to troll for minors and finding the most susceptible age group to hone his "I'm a cool, hot musician." Hey, at one point, even I thought he was a touring performer. And we all know how embarrassing that rabbit hole was for me. (insert blushing emoticon.) This KAK character has "a tell" and I figured this was just another one of his inside thought processes. In his interview with BarMac she asked how he came up with the name and he said, "Well my middle name is Anthony." So I wondered how he came up with the rest of the profile name of "SHOTS."
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MOO I think KAK set up a profile to share with his father.
Hence a word sustitute name. Tony_Photos = Anthony_Shots.
That is why the phone wasn't there during first search, and later appeared on the microwave.
BOXER ....Very possible. Do you have any thoughts on the "newest" identity/business he put on the phone he "said he found in the rental car in Vegas" (Ahem, bs, snicker) and made a title "Kline Photography?" I have counted 6 devices....did I miss any?
PS...this guy is shady, so shady...
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