IL - July 4 Parade, Highland Park, at least 6 fatally shot, 4 July 2022 *son charged, dad guilty*

[Friday Fan]

How about banning people having/exhibiting signs of mental illness get no guns, or temproarily lose the right to them (seems so simple and works here), until undergoing a full mental health evaluation by an actual medical mental health professional?

Kind of like when an older person becomes an unsafe driver due to age/infirmity and doctors and/or family cause their licesnces to be removed.

There would need to be a legal "paper trail" of mental illness. When someone purchases a firearm a federal background check is performed. I'm not too knowledgeable, but I believe the background check consists of legal records. (Felony convictions, and possible misdemeanors etc). Generally, convicted felons cannot purchase firearms, but it's a gray area. There are also certain misdemeanors that may prevent purchasing.

Mental illness involves medical records. Medical records are strictly private by law and not available in background checks.
Medical records only come into play if for some reason the person's mental illness was somehow part of the legal system. It's a "high bar". 25 years ago, my father in law went crazy and we tried to get him committed. became violent. Police wouldn't do anything because he wasn't violent enough. He voluntarily went to a place for a few days to avoid being committed. (I believe being committed may result in revocation of driver's license, which is probably why there was such resistance..MOO) After he came out, we couldn't do anything. My mother in law left and went into hiding. We were scared to death. We were also afraid he would get in a wreck and kill people. On his last day, he took a bottle of digitalis, got in his car and got in a wreck. (Fortunately, no one else was injured) However that said, I believe he could have passed a federal firearms background check because he voluntarily went to a facility.


In this day and age, a concerned family member would probably need to seek out an attorney. However when it involves kids, taking legal action with mental illness is often considered the "last step" by a parent and often results in estrangement of the parent/child relationship.

Federal law generally prohibits possession of firearms and ammunition by people who have been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to be a danger to themselves or others, or to “lack[] the mental capacity to contract or manage [their] own affairs,” as a result of their mental condition or illness.1
Federal law also generally prohibits people from possessing firearms if they have been involuntarily hospitalized or committed to a mental health or substance abuse treatment facility by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority.2 https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/mental-health-reporting-in-texas/#:~:text=Federal law also generally prohibits,commission, or other lawful authority.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Dear @Wise Old Owl,

Thank you for your insightful post.

Isolation from others (I'm thinking of what his uncle said) can lead to everything you've said in your post.

According to his uncle, he isolated himself from others.

JMO

BBM

Exactly. And we are finding with all these shooters that they have "isolated themselves" - so how are we, as a society supposed to "find" or "expose" or "help" (looking for the right word here) ?

They hole themselves up in a room - no one sees them. They "isolate" - so they seldom go out - no one sees them. They are usually drop outs from school - no one sees them. They rarely work (although the Uvalde shooter did work at Wendy's - but look at that situation - his co-workers jokingly nicknamed him "school shooter") - no one sees them.

If they continue to go unseen how are we, as a concerned society,supposed to find them?

That's the real question and problem.

JMHO

 

[Betty P]

It's also the Coat of Arms of the village of Hausgereut in Baden-Württemberg.

View attachment 352792

I find it interesting that the German word "Hausgereut" translates to English as "Homely":
ADJECTIVE
If you say that someone is homely, you mean that they are not very attractive to look at.
[US]
Synonyms: unattractive, plain, ugly, not striking

MOO JMO

Just had vacation taking a road trip through the towns and cities near here. Very quiet, peaceful area. Germany government and society frown on anyone promoting ideology like that of Crimo's. I'm guessing its more likely he got these kinds of designs from tattoo art popular in the US with white supremacy groups. It will be interesting to see all of his tattoos.

white supremacists tattoo art - Google Search

More resources. This link includes the description of the Pepe the Frog cartoon that he was seen wearing in another photo

Resources Search | ADL

www.adl.org

 

[Boxer]

In my opinion, this statement from the uncle are concerning in relation to the mental health of a young person.

He's a quiet kid
He's usually on his own
He's a lonely, quiet person
He keeps everything to himself

These "descriptions" of him from a family member (his uncle) are very sad, troubling and deeply concerning descriptions in my view.

Oh how I wish from the bottom of my heart that someone - anyone who knew him - would have reported that video on youtube.

In that youtube video, he talked about the violence he planned to do - "had to do". I believe that is what people term as a "manifesto".

I will never understand how he got as far as he did without anyone reporting him to the police or to a health professional. I just can't understand it.

MOO I think the is simply out there trying to distance his brother for any culpability for his nephews harm.

 

[Friday Fan]

Of course, we should wait to hear from the experts. I'm just expressing my opinion with only an undergrad degree in psych. From what I've read, he was able to establish a music career for himself, manage his financial affairs, travel on business, groom and feed himself, conduct business relationships with others, had a car and was able to secure a driver's license, can distinguish right from wrong, planned his attack and avoided capture for a while, knowing what he had done was wrong and illegal, etc. Those things usually don't indicate organic or clinical mental illness, but ICBW. JMO

Playing wack a mole trying to provide mental health services to these kind of killers will be a difficult task in the US. Currently, over 31 million Americans are uninsured and have no access to even the most basic health care services.

CDC reports on uninsured in first six months of 2021 | AHA News

How many Americans don't have health insurance? An estimated 9.6% of U.S. residents, or 31.1 million people, were uninsured and lacked health insurance when surveyed in the first six months of 2021, according to preliminary estimates from the National Health Interview Survey released by the...

www.aha.org

Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2020

This report presents data on health insurance coverage in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 CPS ASEC.

www.census.gov

More data from NAMI about difficulty of mentally ill patients in getting access to treatment

The Doctor is Out | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness

NAMI publishes reports on critical, emerging issues to help inform the public about the importance of effective mental health policy.

www.nami.org

He does not meet the threshold.
I'm pretty sure there is mental illness, but it just doesn't meet a threshold. My mom was a schizophrenic. She lived to be 81. She outwardly led a normal life. Towards the end, she developed Parkinson's. My dad managed to get one legal restriction a few months before she suddenly died: She could drive, but could not have passengers. This was based on her Parkinson's.

Other than that she was in and out of hospitals and raised four kids. In the 1970's, she almost lost her driver's license when she filled out a renewal form that asked about meds. After that scare, she always checked "No" . She was able to do all of the above also.

My dad always worried that should would not be able to "manage her affairs" if he passed away, however she passed away first, so this was not an issue.

 

[Dotta]

MOO I think the is simply out there trying to distance his brother for any culpability for his nephews harm.

Exactly!
Typical "damage control" in my opinion.

I would take these family statements with a pinch (or tonne) of salt.

After all, how could he say:
- The kid was weird and mother tried to help him using her "frequencies on a healing path, creating a web of transformation across the Universe".
Cough, cough

 

[Betty P]

While I completely and totally agree with you - I don't believe its the "stigma of mental illness". In JMHO - these "shooters" don't believe they are mentally ill - they don't feel "ill". They seek out (and easily find) like-minded people (who could also be mentally ill) and they take solace in interacting and socializing "online" with these people who "feed each other's" thoughts and beliefs and ideations which then turn in to planning and carrying out these horrific events.



JMHO

So true, good comment. I suspect, JMO, they will find he had a lot of friends online. He wasn't a "loner" in the old fashioned sense. He had hundreds of thousands of people who downloaded his videos/performances. He's probably very active online and socializes with people who have similar beliefs. JMO

The percentage of real mentally ill people who commit violent crimes is actually very small. Most people with mental illness are not violent.

Mental illness and violence: Debunking myths, addressing realities

Research is helping to tease apart why some people with serious mental illness are prone to violence while others are not, and how clinicians and others can help through improved treatment and informed myth-busting.

www.apa.org

From the article

Which symptoms lead to violent behavior?​

Sometimes, mental health symptoms in and of themselves can spur a person to aggression or violence. These include when the person suffers from:


Persecutory delusions and “command hallucinations.” For people with psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia, studies show that some of the conditions’ positive symptoms can provoke violence. These include persecutory delusions, such as when a patient thinks people are putting implants in their head or are targeting them with harmful laser beams, particularly when they are also feeling angry or irritable. Another such symptom is “command hallucinations”—when a patient reports hearing voices that order them to hurt someone.


Grandiosity, grandiose delusions, and mania. Grandiosity, a hallmark of the manic and hypomanic phases of bipolar disorder, can likewise play a role in violence and aggression, studies find. People can be overtaken by an exaggerated sense of their own power, which can stunt their ability to empathize with others and foster a sense of entitlement, including the right to take advantage of or exploit others, Brown explains.


Similarly, the high energy that often accompanies mania can lead to violence or aggression on its own terms. A study by Jillian K. Peterson, PhD, an associate professor at Hamline University in St. Paul, Minnesota, and colleagues, for instance, found that of 429 crimes committed by 143 offenders with mental illness, 3% related directly to depression, 4% to psychosis, and 10% to bipolar disorder, including impulsivity ( Law and Human Behavior , Vol. 38, No. 5, 2014).


Antisocial personality traits. Violence among people with serious mental illness often goes hand in hand with a youthful history of conduct disorder and a present diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, characterized by disregard for others, deceitfulness, and manipulation of others for personal gain, research also shows. While these disorders are considered in the realm of personality disorders, it is likely that many more people would be placed in a category of people with mental illness and at high risk for violence if these disorders were included, Brown says.

It will be interesting to see if he exhibited any of these symptoms. The only one I can see as a possibility (JMO) is anti-social personality disorder. It's a personality disorder, though, not organic mental illness. It's more a "conduct disorder". "Characterized by disregard for others, deceitfulness and manipulation of others for personal gain". From the link above

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Just thinking out loud here. All of this is JMHO.

I've got the news channels on - waiting for the press conference. It was just said that he got to the roof by an external ladder attached to the building. Why didn't anyone see him climbing up that ladder to the roof - was he holding the gun? Did he have the gun in a "bag" and was carrying that?

In big, urban areas, LE would have had snipers on roofs for a big event like this - it gives them an "eye in the sky" over the crowds to be able to watch better. But, I guess, this being a smaller, bedroom community & affluent at that - they didn't see the need or think they needed that type of surveillance?

It wouldn't have prevented it - but it would have helped immensely when the shooting started to spot where it was coming from and maybe, even possibly, have taken him out.



JMHO

 

[Dotta]

Just thinking out loud here. All of this is JMHO.

I've got the news channels on - waiting for the press conference. It was just said that he got to the roof by an external ladder attached to the building. Why didn't anyone see him climbing up that ladder to the roof - was he holding the gun? Did he have the gun in a "bag" and was carrying that?

In big, urban areas, LE would have had snipers on roofs for a big event like this - it gives them an "eye in the sky" over the crowds to be able to watch better. But, I guess, this being a smaller, bedroom community & affluent at that - they didn't see the need or think they needed that type of surveillance?

It wouldn't have prevented it - but it would have helped immensely when the shooting started to spot where it was coming from and maybe, even possibly, have taken him out.



JMHO

The small community syndrome:

"It cannot happen here".

First Uvalde, and now Highland Park.

 

[Betty P]

Anyone see a PC yet?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Anyone see a PC yet?

Nope - just keep saying its "coming up soon" - earlier they said at 11:30 - but that didn't happen. Last I heard they said "in about an hour" - that was around 11 - 11:15

I'll post when they start.

 

[angelainwi]

Highland Park is central time so it is 10:53 am there right now

 

[Friday Fan]

I bet Crimo is gonna use a mental illness defense like Jared Loughner (AZ shooting of Gabby Giffords) and Jason Holmes (2012 Colorado theater shooting) did.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Presser any moment now

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[Wise Old Owl]

just said there is a "delay" in the press conference

 

[Friday Fan]

It's also the Coat of Arms of the village of Hausgereut in Baden-Württemberg.

View attachment 352792

I find it interesting that the German word "Hausgereut" translates to English as "Homely":
ADJECTIVE
If you say that someone is homely, you mean that they are not very attractive to look at.
[US]
Synonyms: unattractive, plain, ugly, not striking

MOO JMO

WGN briefly mentioned that this was a logo of "far right overseas group", but didn't elaborate, so heck I don't know.
Who knows the why or what. He seemed to have so many weird symbols like "47"...Who knows what all this means?
At the 15 second mark.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

'2 minute warning" now for presser

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Here we go

 

[Betty P]

Cavelli task force

Crimo is 21
Reviewed a lot of video, much help from the public
Believe Crimo pre-planned for several weeks
Used fire escape ladder
Purchased in Ill, legally by Crimo
During attack was dressed in women's clothing to hide tattoos, etc
70? rounds fired into the crowd
Dropped his rifle and blended in with crowd as he escaped
borrowed his mom's vehicle
alert member of community saw car and called 911, called for back up and did a traffic stop
Had a second rifle in vehicle, he had purchased as well
Remains in custody
No indications anyone else involved
Lake Co prosecutor helping them
Developing leads, deciding on charges

Mayor talking now about memorial services at local churches, prayer gatherings, ecumenical prayer vigils, etc
Red Cross, LE, FBI, providing other victim's assistance services. Overwhelmed with support. Donate to victims, be mindful of scams. Will share more info on that on city's web site.

Doesn't know about motive, hasn't said
Videos being investigated
Purchased weapons in Chicagoland area
When he went to mothers, no indication he told her anything
Also had other firearms recovered at a residence
Still working on timeline, still asking for video or photos esp of him walking to the building, from the building, etc.
Had some LE contacts, can't get into it
Know of the 2 rifles, plus pistols he owned as well
Shooting appears to be completely random
No info to suggest yet that it was racially, etc. motivated
Don't have info on an assault rifle ban
ATF expedited trace of firearm
Once his photo in video was revealed, local police recognized him
Weapon was similar to an AR 15.
Video camera played a tremendous role in identifying him coming and going
May have had a wig, not sure of other parts of disguise
Local business in vicinity, able to access roof by fire escape ladder
Takes time to interview everyone about his past, etc. Ongoing
No weapons were modified
Back at 3 pm, he remains in custody