ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 20

[cottonweaver]

They will usually start with an interview and alibi check. If things aren’t adding up they will begin affidavits for cell phones etc.
The initial interview can be very telling. Some folks are good liars, some are not. If you are one of those people who get nervous just talking to LE even if you haven’t done anything, and there are many, and then you say you were home alone all night, you might get another look by LE.
So, an individual who seems to be forthright and honest and has a good alibi, ie in a public place with witnesses, would likely be cleared at this time. If your alibi puts you in a bar on video, that’s great, but what if upon reviewing the entire video, LE realizes that there was an extended period where the person wasn’t actually seen? LE would likely bring you back in for questioning and look for inconsistencies in your statement.
I believe there will be some difficulty corroborating alibis for people given that the crime likely took place sometime between three and four in the morning.

How would you confirm an alibi for somebody* who was asleep in their bed all night ( incl 3-4am) and whose phone also places them at home? ( You've checked the pings and that phone never moved, it was left on & it connected to the network near the person's home all night long.) They also appear straightforward and honest, volunteered to come down for an interview, no lawyer. Really helpful person etc

They live at home with their mother and their mother confirms their child was home, although cause she doesn't sleep in the same bed & is a deep sleeper she can only confirm physically seeing them when she went to bed at 11pm and again the next morning when she saw them, say 1oam?

what would be your next step OldCop?
* the somebody is a high priority but not a PoI

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I'm assuming you're referring to a few extra windows on the second and third, since there's a door on each floor (although 3rd has no stairs down). Not disputing, just trying to understand/clarify.

no, no problem. I appreciate the discussion. IMO 'who did it?' can be analyzed by looking at the how, why, what of it, and it's essential to analyze the pre-crime prep as well as steps inside. The problem I have with most theories is that I can't get from beginning to end with them. So I want to step-by-step this. anyway. My first post on ws described how I went through the scene in my head. Part of the post and if you look at a schematic, you'll see how he could have been trapped, esp if e woke up and had a weapon. Even if he hadn't been caught, there'd be potential living witnesses to id him.


I think he’d have gone in through the second floor sliding door after he was sure everyone was asleep, not through the first door with the keypad, even though he might know their code. I believe the first floor only has one possible exit. He would not let himself be trapped. On the second floor, he would have three potential door exits. Even on the 3rd floor, more options and he’s in good shape, so he could jump from the third story window or deck, if needed.

He’d go to the second floor bedroom first. E, the biggest and potentially undesirable victim. He'd cut arteries & vocal chords. Even if E woke up and fought, it would not be for long. Same with X to silence her, but she fought back. He might even have pre-cut duct tape for over the mouths. The police are saying no one was bound and gagged, but did anyone ask about adhesive residue? Or tape left over the mouths?

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

You’re welcome!

hi old cop! I really appreciate your insight!

 

[OldCop]

It’s also possible that he changed the locks himself bc he did not want a stranger/maintenance guy having a key/the combo etc or even want a maintenance guy in the house.

It’s a fact, some people are just more security conscious than others. Young adults, especially, often feel infallible. “It will never happen to me.” Maybe X felt more anxious because of the way she was raised. She may have felt uncomfortable about how many people came in and out the sliding door which was on her floor.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Obviously, I am old, too. This got me to thinking. We’ve all been wondering if the killer might have been in the house prior to the killings. I wonder if any of the roommates thought someone might have been in their room while they were out; not necessarily a burglary but maybe they noticed small things moved around or out of place?

old cop, this happened when I was in college. the guy had stalked her prior and had even gotten into her laundry for personal effects iirc. my guess is not just that he had been in the house, but I believe he may have planted camera/recording that allowed him the ultimate access. Too creepy?

 

[OldCop]

old cop, this happened when I was in college. the guy had stalked her prior and had even gotten into her laundry for personal effects iirc. my guess is not just that he had been in the house, but I believe he may have planted camera/recording that allowed him the ultimate access. Too creepy?

Much too creepy! ETA Unfortunately, it has happened it has been known to happen.

 

[Friday Fan]

My experience in a university town is that many homes are set up for students, so while this group of students all know each other well, they don't always. The locks may have just been there as part of the usual unofficial "student" housing if this house was always used for students.

The Zillow (removed) listing showed standard residential bedroom (bathroom, knob door) locks. The Zillow listing looked recent enough. (Had renovations done around 2018 and images were taken after renovations..new front door etc)

This house has been a student rental for quite awhile. It was a rental before the renovations.

 

[OldCop]

hi old cop! I really appreciate your insight!

Thanks!

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

From thread 19 from travelingpartyof 5

“Absolutely, yes— this idea. I am wondering too. The combination of one family saying the daughter complained of having a stalker and another family saying Dad just changed Xana’s locks leads me to think something creepy was happening.”

Do you have a link for Xana’s dad saying he changed her locks? I would like to read that in the original source, thank you!

Again jumping ahead, but I think this whole thing from an absolutely devastated mom sharing second-hand info is difficult … even the language Banfield used isn’t clear.

I posted in the last thread, but you can see X’s dad’s interview here to compare/contrast:

‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker

JMHO & back to trying to catch up.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

potentially, but really, if you've just successfully (in the killer's mind) murdered four people, are you going to risk going out of a window when you can just open the door and slink away?

editing to add: I'm also going to have left the door cracked when I came in, even if it was unlocked already, to eliminate as many stray noises as possible, and I'm going out the same door I went in, clean up on both sides, in case I left some errant DNA or clue. BUT that is because I would have planned this so many different ways, I'd be ticking off my to-do list as I went. probably important to mention that I'm not actually a killer and this is all my vivid imagination combined with too much reading and an interest in criminal law.

Escaping the same route makes sense if the perpetrator murdered the four without hiccup, ie, no loud commotion inside of the residence or any activity outside. He likely did leave via the screen gate; just the pictures of the investigators inspecting the windows and the random locking of one victim’s door (unless that’s yet another unfounded rumor) had me considering.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Escaping the same route makes sense if the perpetrator murdered the four without hiccup, ie, no loud commotion inside of the residence or any activity outside. He likely did; just the pictures of the investigators inspecting the windows had me considering.

I'm with you. otoh it is disturbing to me that my mind actually walks through these things in orderly fashion, but otoh, it happened, and making sense of it requires the process imo.

 

[Susan A]

@SusanA: You asked in the last thread when the FBI became involved. Here is a link to your post:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 19

Awesome!!! Thank you! This IS very illuminating, just as you said, and will be useful to many!. Would you mind telling me how to “bump” a post, like you just did so I’ll know for future reference? Thanks! If you see a post which many people might have missed and that you want to recommend to...

www.websleuths.com

The thread has been moving fast so perhaps someone has already answered you, but in case not:

The FBI was already assisting by the first Moscow PD press conference on Nov 16. Chief Fry addresses that subject around 1:25 in that press conference. Video of that PC is here (if it doesn't link directly to PC, go down to bottom of page and first one is far right): King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

Thank you!

 

[OldCop]

Escaping the same route makes sense if the perpetrator murdered the four without hiccup, ie, no loud commotion inside of the residence or any activity outside. He likely did leave via the screen gate; just the pictures of the investigators inspecting the windows had me considering.

I think the investigators were trying to cover every possible means of ingress and egress. Maybe seeing if the perp had tried other doors or windows first.

 

[citizen_sleuth]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1599141590383333376

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Much too creepy! ETA Unfortunately, it has happened it has been known to happen.

it's part of my evolving detailed theory. I also think this person has some sort of LE-adjacent experience, but not LE. I used to know someone who was involved in search and rescue who liked to align themselves and sometimes pretended to be LE. (Very creepy.) Someone adept at blending in, potentially charming, but at least unobtrusive. May have a hobby that allows them time off at night to travel locally in search of. I think he popped the cameras on his way out as part of this detailed attack plan. I know that's freaky, but it would explain a lot.

 

[hopewell]

Can’t control off campus

Curfews can be implemented when there is a threat to public safety. This is not a political statement because officials of both parties mandated this at various times, but we were literally locked down for over a year by executive orders on the local, state, and federal levels due to a community threat.

My opinion.

 

[hopewell]

The university has increased its LE presence on campus, and taken other on-campus measures to increase security for those students who returned after the Thanksgiving break in order to complete the semester in-person. The students are aware of the situation, and have been advised to take precautions. They are adults, so I don't think the university should try to implement a curfew. The students (adults) are there by choice, they could have opted to complete their semester remotely. If the city or LE want to impose a curfew on the city of Moscow, that is their option, but I have never seen a city impose a curfew, even when it was known that one of the most heinous serial murderers was at-large.

Also, there are many students who need access to the labs on campus to continue working on their scientific research, many who need the resources of a university library to complete their research, and many would lose an entire semester of progress and lots of money from tuition and fees if they were banned from in-person study on campus. Also, many students have nowhere else to go, sadly this is a fact, they don't have familial homes to go to, their residence on-campus is their established home. In addition, international students are not allowed to take fully remote classes, this is a regulation of the U.S. Department of Education. This regulation was temporarily suspended in spring of 2022 during the height of the pandemic, but students who began their studies after spring of 2022 are not allowed to take fully remote classes, although they can take hybrid classes, which combines in-person and remote.

So it's complicated, but at least the university has shown it is willing to be as flexible as possible, given the choices that each student makes. I applaud them for that, they are being extremely flexible.

I appreciate the thorough and reasonable reply, but I feel like if this happened again in the community your thinking would shift.

My opinion.

 

[hopewell]

I am trying to follow your train of thought regarding the “curfew” suggestion.
The victims were home in their house when they were killed so wondering how a curfew helps? The four victims arguably would still be alive if they stayed out all night and never went home that night. What am I missing? JMOO

Because no one would be out partying until 2am and places where predators might lurk to fulfill sadistic fantasies would be closed up early.

My opinion.

 

[laust23]

I am wondering if the police on the first night followed any footsteps? How could someone kill 4 people with a huge hunting knife and and not have a considerable amount of blood on themself. And could they have changed their clothes in the house and or showered? I havent heard anything about checknig drains for blood. And if they changed their clothes did police go thru the garbage cans and dumpstsers to see if there were any blood clothes in them? It just doesnst seem like they were very proactive in the beginning. And I hope they havent ruled out that the person who commited this crime could be involved in law enforcement. I have watched enough ID shows to know this does happen and should be overlooked. And how do we know there wasnt another person? Not for certain but its only been revealed there was 1 weapon the knife and I believe they can tell if the knife wounds are consistent by depth, angle, which hand etc.to know it was done by 1 person.

Agreed! I said the same things weeks ago about law enforcement possibly being involved. It does happen.

 

[PorcelainCoveredInTinFoil]

Obviously, I am old, too. This got me to thinking. We’ve all been wondering if the killer might have been in the house prior to the killings. I wonder if any of the roommates thought someone might have been in their room while they were out; not necessarily a burglary but maybe they noticed small things moved around or out of place?

Like Manson Family doing their 'creepy-crawlings' stuff in numerous homes before August '69. I'm thinking the same, actually. Each time I hear/read 'it's thought the perp may have been inside before 11/12' my mind immediately questions that with 'was he in there knowingly to the tenants, or unknowingly?'

I want to relentlessly compare this case to the Tate-LaBianca case, as well as the Holly Bobo case. Why?! IDK. Understandbly each case is different and are case-by-case scenarios. I get that. Constant variables and such. But, those are the main two I go to when comparing, for some reason.

Having said all that, it leads me to two more points.

1) Karen Bobo is the gold-standard when it comes to a grieving parent going before media, imo. Press conference after press conference and saying what she had to say/was able to say without revealing what LE didn't want her to say and not answering too many q's from the press or public.

2) The perp's name has crossed the desk of LE at some point prior to 11/12/22, imo. Fights with family members/domestic assaults, car theft/theft of property, public nuisance, drunk and disorderly, poss of meth (hard for me to believe perp wasn't amped up by something on 11/12/22), endlesss possibilities. But, my point is, his name has likely crossed a desk prior to 11/12/22. Zach Adams' name had, Jason Autry's name had, Shane Austin's name had, and countless names of Manson Family Members had. So, imo, this perp's name has been in the mix somewhere prior to that night, maybe in different jurisdictions, but it's there somewhere.

All just my opinion and pure speculation.