Identified! Canada - Rosedale, Toronto, BlkFem (Afr mix), 4-7, in constr dumpster, PMI sum/fall'21, 2 May 2022 - Neveah Tucker

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dotr said:
www.websleuths.com

GUILTY - OH - Geauga's Child, newborn baby boy, found deceased, Geauga County 1993 *mother arrested in 2019*

These cases are so sad. Often, it seems more than one baby is murdered. It seems unbelievable that someone can go through a pregnancy and birth without anyone knowing, murder the baby and dispose of it, and then do it all again. Sigh.
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
Click to expand...
That's a different case. The earlier article was for "Baby Boy Hugo" in Oklahoma- I haven't been able to find a thread for him.
 

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.
www.namus.gov

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.
www.namus.gov

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.
www.namus.gov
 
I just found this article from mid-July. Very disappointing that there has been nothing since. Sounds like the DNA results should have come back by now.

You can hear the frustration in the voice of Det.-Sgt. Steve Smith of the Toronto Police cold case-missing persons unit.

Despite front-page coverage and repeated efforts on the ground and in the media to shake the tree for any tidbit, the veteran homicide detective says cops have zip.

“There’s just nothing,” Smith told the Toronto Sun. “We’ve sent DNA to a lab in the U.S. and we should hear something in a couple of weeks and that should help.

“Hopefully, that will lead to her identification and her family, then we can get some answers,” Smith said.

He added: “We’ve gone over every tip, everything, just everything and we just really don’t know at this time. But we will figure this out.”

 
Here's a recent opinion piece written by someone in the neighbourhood. Beautifully captures what I imagine many of us are thinking and feeling.

www.thestar.com

Opinion | An unnamed girl discarded, ‘like a broken doll’

There’s a philosophic question buried in the violence. How does targeted death come to a child? What happens to the human instinct to protect young?
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
 
Nov 29 2022
Sara Jabakhanji ·

''Unsolved case of little girl's body found in dumpster​

In June, Toronto police released a composite sketch of a little girl whose body was found in a dumpster a month earlier in the city's Rosedale neighbourhood. Since then, police have not released any further details on the girl and believe she was never reported missing to police in Canada.

Novroski said if police have the girl's remains, they can attempt to get a sufficient amount of bone to put through for DNA typing in hopes that they can find out her identity.

"Heavily degraded human remains can be tricky because a lot of that nuclear DNA that resides in your blood cells and in your tissues has all been degraded, and sometimes the condition of the bone, teeth, etcetera can be not optimal for forensic DNA typing," she said.''
1670094408995.png
''A composite sketch is shown here of an unidentified girl whose body was found in a Toronto dumpster in May 2022. Novroski says if police can get a sufficient amount of bone to test for DNA typing, maybe they can find a match that will ultimately lead to her identity. (Ontario Provincial Police)
Novroski noted that while IGG can be incredibly useful for these cases, the forensic community is aware of the gaps in the demography in the public DNA profiles, which has a "strong European presence," and presents a challenge in other cases.

"There is a little bit of disparity there and ... that's just based on who might be buying the [DNA] kits, who might want to explore their genealogy and ultimately, who can afford to spend ... the $129 on curiosity."
 
dotr said:
Nov 29 2022
Sara Jabakhanji ·

''Unsolved case of little girl's body found in dumpster​

In June, Toronto police released a composite sketch of a little girl whose body was found in a dumpster a month earlier in the city's Rosedale neighbourhood. Since then, police have not released any further details on the girl and believe she was never reported missing to police in Canada.

Novroski said if police have the girl's remains, they can attempt to get a sufficient amount of bone to put through for DNA typing in hopes that they can find out her identity.

"Heavily degraded human remains can be tricky because a lot of that nuclear DNA that resides in your blood cells and in your tissues has all been degraded, and sometimes the condition of the bone, teeth, etcetera can be not optimal for forensic DNA typing," she said.''
View attachment 384731
''A composite sketch is shown here of an unidentified girl whose body was found in a Toronto dumpster in May 2022. Novroski says if police can get a sufficient amount of bone to test for DNA typing, maybe they can find a match that will ultimately lead to her identity. (Ontario Provincial Police)
Novroski noted that while IGG can be incredibly useful for these cases, the forensic community is aware of the gaps in the demography in the public DNA profiles, which has a "strong European presence," and presents a challenge in other cases.

"There is a little bit of disparity there and ... that's just based on who might be buying the [DNA] kits, who might want to explore their genealogy and ultimately, who can afford to spend ... the $129 on curiosity."
Click to expand...

He's is so right. The quest for finding ancestral roots is firmly entrenched in white European communities. Any other groups, South Asian, African American, and Asian are sadly lacking. It will be an uphill battle even if they can extract DNA. Don't know why it would be so hard considering the Boy in the Box has been identified and he died over 60 years ago.

The composite sketch should be sent to every school in the area to see if any teaching staff could provide information of children who 'moved' or 'transferred' to another school. And not just Toronto but all the bedroom communities in the GTA: Mississauga, Brampton, Scarborough, Ajax-Pickering, and Oshawa-Whitby. It's obvious the girl's caregivers never reported her missing.
 
branmuffin said:
He's is so right. The quest for finding ancestral roots is firmly entrenched in white European communities. Any other groups, South Asian, African American, and Asian are sadly lacking. It will be an uphill battle even if they can extract DNA. Don't know why it would be so hard considering the Boy in the Box has been identified and he died over 60 years ago.

The composite sketch should be sent to every school in the area to see if any teaching staff could provide information of children who 'moved' or 'transferred' to another school. And not just Toronto but all the bedroom communities in the GTA: Mississauga, Brampton, Scarborough, Ajax-Pickering, and Oshawa-Whitby. It's obvious the girl's caregivers never reported her missing.
Click to expand...
I don't think this little girls "caregivers" registered her for anything. I doubt there are even dental records for her. Birth records or OHIP? Anything?!

FWIW I think her hair elastics are either Goody or Just Basic brand and the flannel blanket is so specific I'm almost 100% certain it was hand made.

If this little girls parents or family were ever convicted, would their DNA be on file for comparison?

Lastly, if there were any "touch DNA" or transfer, could it still be detected despite exposure to the elements?
 
What i’ve been wondering, for a long time, is if they based her race (is that the polite way to say?) on dna, her look (remains), both,…? I’ve seen a lot of cases where the race (?) was wrong. Is that possible here? Or was her hairtexture found, resembling afro-american (pretty specific hair) etc?

They speak of very decomposed remains, but i didn’t read wat they were able to see for themselves & what was told by dna.

There are children from other races (?) missing. If we know how certain her race (?) is, maybe we can widen our search.

(Would anyone be so kind to teach me how to speak of someones race (?) respectfully in english pls? I don’t want to hurt someone.)
 
Carovb5 said:
What i’ve been wondering, for a long time, is if they based her race (is that the polite way to say?) on dna, her look (remains), both,…? I’ve seen a lot of cases where the race (?) was wrong. Is that possible here? Or was her hairtexture found, resembling afro-american (pretty specific hair) etc?

They speak of very decomposed remains, but i didn’t read wat they were able to see for themselves & what was told by dna.

There are children from other races (?) missing. If we know how certain her race (?) is, maybe we can widen our search.

(Would anyone be so kind to teach me how to speak of someones race (?) respectfully in english pls? I don’t want to hurt someone.)
Click to expand...
I think enough of her hair remained to give an idea of texture. It was in braids, and therefore would have been kept relatively intact, I think. Like spinning fibre into yarn, or braiding it into rope, it would have kept the hair fibres in a unified cord rather than them being lost as they became loosened from the scalp. If her hair was curly or kinky enough, it would be fairly clear it was likely to be someone with African heritage.

There are certain characteristics of the skull and teeth that can suggest African ancestry, but they are less relied on now than DNA analysis, which can give a good general idea of someone's ancestry. If this little girl showed all or mostly African ancestry, then it would be a good guess she had African heritage, either recent (refugees, immigrants) or historic (enslaved people taken from African countries to the Americas, the Caribbean, the UK, etc.). The folks that do this job for a living are good at it, and if this was used, they should be able to give police an idea that's specific enough to be helpful.

If she's a recent immigrant, testing of her bones and teeth might also be able to tell them that she spent part of her young life overseas.

MOO
 
Carovb5 said:
What i’ve been wondering, for a long time, is if they based her race (is that the polite way to say?) on dna, her look (remains), both,…? I’ve seen a lot of cases where the race (?) was wrong. Is that possible here? Or was her hairtexture found, resembling afro-american (pretty specific hair) etc?

They speak of very decomposed remains, but i didn’t read wat they were able to see for themselves & what was told by dna.

There are children from other races (?) missing. If we know how certain her race (?) is, maybe we can widen our search.

(Would anyone be so kind to teach me how to speak of someones race (?) respectfully in english pls? I don’t want to hurt someone.)
Click to expand...
It seems like they knew her hair texture since they were able to tell how her hair was styled (in braided ponytails like in the recon). That to me indicates she has some black ancestry, at the very least.
 
whiterhino said:
I don't think this little girls "caregivers" registered her for anything. I doubt there are even dental records for her. Birth records or OHIP? Anything?!

FWIW I think her hair elastics are either Goody or Just Basic brand and the flannel blanket is so specific I'm almost 100% certain it was hand made.

If this little girls parents or family were ever convicted, would their DNA be on file for comparison?

Lastly, if there were any "touch DNA" or transfer, could it still be detected despite exposure to the elements?
Click to expand...

If her parents were born outside Canada and arrived in 2013 or later their fingerprints would be on file. I hope they can get DNA from her because it could help identify people who came to Canada as refugees from war torn countries or arrived from Haiti after the 2010 earthquake. It could give them a good idea where to search for family members. In the last 10 or 12 years Canada has accepted French speaking immigrants from Ivory Coast, Haiti, Algeria and Cameroon. If her parents are from the Caribbean it will be difficult to track them down because hundreds of thousands of people have emigrated to Canada from Trinidad, Jamaica, Dominican Republic and numerous other small Caribbean countries for decades.

Unless her parents committed crimes like murder, sexual assault, manslaughter or a terrorist act, they would not have DNA on file. And if they were convicted of any of those crimes they'd either be in prison or deported after serving their sentence.

I believe 'touch DNA' can be degraded by the elements and time.
 
branmuffin said:
If her parents were born outside Canada and arrived in 2013 or later their fingerprints would be on file. I hope they can get DNA from her because it could help identify people who came to Canada as refugees from war torn countries or arrived from Haiti after the 2010 earthquake. It could give them a good idea where to search for family members. In the last 10 or 12 years Canada has accepted French speaking immigrants from Ivory Coast, Haiti, Algeria and Cameroon. If her parents are from the Caribbean it will be difficult to track them down because hundreds of thousands of people have emigrated to Canada from Trinidad, Jamaica, Dominican Republic and numerous other small Caribbean countries for decades.

Unless her parents committed crimes like murder, sexual assault, manslaughter or a terrorist act, they would not have DNA on file. And if they were convicted of any of those crimes they'd either be in prison or deported after serving their sentence.

I believe 'touch DNA' can be degraded by the elements and time.
Click to expand...
Hate to say it, but if the PMI is as long as they think it might be, they likely won't have anything to compare a fingerprint card to. I suspect she's very decomposed, possibly mummified or on the way to being skeletonised. They mentioned the heavy reliance on entomology. That means the remains are in a state that the bugs are the most useful measure they have, and that tells me that the postmortem changes are extreme. She may be just bones.

MOO
 
Carovb5 said:
What i’ve been wondering, for a long time, is if they based her race (is that the polite way to say?) on dna, her look (remains), both,…? I’ve seen a lot of cases where the race (?) was wrong. Is that possible here? Or was her hairtexture found, resembling afro-american (pretty specific hair) etc?

They speak of very decomposed remains, but i didn’t read wat they were able to see for themselves & what was told by dna.

There are children from other races (?) missing. If we know how certain her race (?) is, maybe we can widen our search.

(Would anyone be so kind to teach me how to speak of someones race (?) respectfully in english pls? I don’t want to hurt someone.)
Click to expand...

She could be biracial and still have all the characteristics of Afro-textured hair. Hair degrades at different rates depending on the physical location of the deceased. I think LE could get a general idea of how long the body was in the dumpster by how long the dumpster was there. I believe her hair would still be easily identified.

While this website is a hair loss clinic, it gives a really good breakdown of the different types of hair and the classifications of ethnicity.

www.belgraviacentre.com

Hair Types and Race Differences

The differences between Asian, Afro-Caribbean and Caucasian hair types Hair's density, speed and pattern of growth, shape of the hair follicle and hair loss conditions
www.belgraviacentre.com www.belgraviacentre.com
 
We'd need to know how long that dumpster was in the driveway of the home being renovated. It's quite possible it's been there for a while since Covid really screwed with supply chain issues in the building and renovation business. All sorts of supplies were either outrageously expensive (although this is a Rosedale address) or just in short supply.

If the child's death and level of decomp suggests she died much earlier, that could mean that someone who kept a deceased child in their home used the dumpster as a means to get rid of it.
 
branmuffin said:
We'd need to know how long that dumpster was in the driveway of the home being renovated. It's quite possible it's been there for a while since Covid really screwed with supply chain issues in the building and renovation business. All sorts of supplies were either outrageously expensive (although this is a Rosedale address) or just in short supply.

If the child's death and level of decomp suggests she died much earlier, that could mean that someone who kept a deceased child in their home used the dumpster as a means to get rid of it.
Click to expand...
Rbbm.
Wondering if the child had been hidden for a period of time at home, but a move, fire or eviction made it necessary to quickly get rid of the body? speculation, imo.
 
@iamshadow21 Just wanted to clarify, we were discussing the fingerprints of the victims potential family, not her own prints. Good point though, there might not have been much to take a print. However there is enough to make an ID.

LE stated they believe the body had been kept somewhere else based on decomposition and insect activity. I don't think her remains were completely skeletal but I also don't know much about insect activity.

Where someone might have kept her, why they chose to move her and why that location?

@branmuffin If you Google the address in maps, there are various images of the house during different periods of time. Of course I'm sure LE already know how long the bin was there for.

I can't believe police would openly state that they have zero leads. Unless it's a bluff, why would they say this?
 
whiterhino said:
@iamshadow21 Just wanted to clarify, we were discussing the fingerprints of the victims potential family, not her own prints. Good point though, there might not have been much to take a print. However there is enough to make an ID.

LE stated they believe the body had been kept somewhere else based on decomposition and insect activity. I don't think her remains were completely skeletal but I also don't know much about insect activity.

Where someone might have kept her, why they chose to move her and why that location?

@branmuffin If you Google the address in maps, there are various images of the house during different periods of time. Of course I'm sure LE already know how long the bin was there for.

I can't believe police would openly state that they have zero leads. Unless it's a bluff, why would they say this?
Click to expand...

I think LE are telling the truth when they say they have zero leads. It may also be a plea to some people they believe know who this child is, either because they may know or be known to to the killer(s) and are scared to come forward.
 
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