ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[XtremeScorpio]

the initial report was they were all injuries to the abdomen. There is so much information that I have not seen anything other they SG significantly more injuries on one of the girls and everyone's assumption is it was his daughter.

I believe it was reported they were attacked in the torso and chest area.

 

[YepperBepper]

Does it remind you of this case ? I am from the area, no one could believe a 16 year old did It. Horribly sad for both families.

I was working at the Capitol Building at the time...and I distinctly recall the case. A 16 year old was never even a consideration, iirc.

 

[Sherlockspal]

Case just bugs the hell out of me. I went to college and lived in unsecured apartments. My kids all went to college and lived in apartments, some of them seedy. I cry for these kids and their families. Some thoughts:
1. The guy had to know general house layout. Too risky to go into house in middle of night to do what he did without knowing layout.
2. it was a party house right? Start making lists of who attended the parties. You have two surviving roommates.
3. cops have zero security camera footage of the killer. Hard to believe. But if they did you know we all would have seen grainy, dark camera footage of some guy walking across campus by now on the news, asking if anybody recognizes him.
4. I think he has killed before. Who does something like this on the first kill.
5. It was targeted. The cops were early to say that. They have some clear evidence that they won’t share with public.
6. The guy used a knife either because he wanted to make it personal or didn’t want to deal with the noise and evidence that a gun leaves.
7. the guy was smart. He must have changed clothes and possibly showered at the apartment. Anybody see a guy walking around with a backpack at 4 a.m? He must have left his cell phone at home. The cops have checked phone records for cell tower pings from that area by now and if he took his phone you would think we would have suspect by now.
8. cops should tell landlords to notify them if anybody moves out in next few months
9. I think the break will come from DNA and possibly genetic genealogy
10. probably not as difficult as we think to kill four drunk people in the middle of the night while they sleep.

 

[Fleabag]

IME, hunters don't usually have silencers (are they even legal for hunting?)

So your question is more like "Why not use a gun?" This is a question that would take pages and pages to compare gun vs knife violence. First thing comes to mind: knives are more quiet. Also, no ballistics, no shell casings to gather. Knives are easier - could be almost no record of purchase, and are unlikely to be reported stolen.

But the mentalities of gun- vs knife-killers is worth a look as well. Some killers have used more than one method (BTK).

Don't assume this was a rational choice, would be my other response.

And knives usually represent more rage, take longer, way more aggressive than squeezing a trigger. I think maybe they like to see the victim squirm. Most hunters use guns because they kill instantly, more humanely, with little to no pain. That is not what this killer wanted. IMO

 

[lucidium]

A quick, quiet, stealthy kill is a skill.

Assuming that is true for the sake of argument, it still doesn't address my question. What the OP and others have suggested is that the perpetrator may have been a hunter who "was very skilled in hunting knife use".

I asked what these supposed skills could be. Hunters do not quietly move around the forest, waiting to pounce on sleeping prey with a knife. They have no more relevant knife skills than a decent home cook.

 

[Charlot123]

The DM is trash news. As is all media now. Moo. Let him sue. This case is not an SVU episode. Its real life. LE Homicide the UBI etc are trying to get a clue to a solid suspect. This not a cold case. I never thought we would have a suspect with Abby and Libby, but now we do. This stuff takes time. DNA all that stuff takes time. No, LE Hom. doesn't have to disclose what they have. Jmo

This is not the first time we read in the news that some relative might sue LE, but I never saw it happen.

Tabloids are about drama, they’d be happy to have the material for their heading. This poor dad is grieving, and shame for the news outlets who are exploiting his grief, anger and love for Kaylee to produce fresh morning scoop.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

I believe it was reported they were attacked in the torso and chest area.

Someone must have thought about this. It's a big risk with six people in the house.

Four people stabbed with knives on two separate floors. That's a lot of thought, experience even?

 

[gliving]

Exact location is aggregated through applications and services in use. Triangulation is what most people talk about, that is just using 3 cell phone towers with limited accuracy. Notice the accuracy on maps, with wifi enabled you are located to position in a home. If looked in to google or apple, your position is that accurate, and apps have the capability of locating you. Go in to a store and its possible to know which aisle and display you are at.

What about a Stingray unit? Could LE set up a unit inside the house and intercept nearby cell activity?

Surreal Stingray Secrecy: Uncovering the FBI’s Surveillance Tech Secrecy Agreements | News & Commentary | American Civil Liberties Union

The public has a right to know whether the FBI is forcing law enforcement agencies to keep information on invasive surveillance technology a secret.

www.aclu.org

Cell site simulators — also known as “Stingrays” or “IMSI catchers” — function by mimicking signals sent from a cell tower and forcing mobile phones in the area to communicate with them. They permit law enforcement to track individuals even when they’re somewhere that’s typically protected from warrantless searches, like a home. Regardless of law enforcement’s intended target, cell site simulators collect data from all phones in their vicinity and can also interfere with nearby phones’ connections to the cellular network.

 

[shane13]

Someone must have thought about this. It's a big risk with six people in the house.

Four people stabbed with knives on two separate floors. That's a lot of thought, experience even?

Much less risk if they had eyes on and bugs in...

 

[al66pine]

Frat. Pres. Speaks
"Brian Entin
@BrianEntin
9h
Flag at half staff at the Sigma Chi fraternity in Moscow, Idaho. Fraternity president told me they don’t have surveillance cameras and have told police everything they know about Xana and Ethan being at the house before the murders."

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1600260764270735360%7Ctwgr%5E55ae3a3c370ce8a1a44ff7eb11f58709797b86cc%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fthreads%2Fid-4-university-of-idaho-students-murdered-moscow-23.649223%2Fpage-22

-----------------------------------------
Soooo... Frat Pres. told reporter they "told police everything they know."

Not saying Frat Pres. is deliberately being untruthful, but is possible LE has had a chance to interview ALL the frat members? All the ppl at frat house that night/morning before the murders?
IIUC some frat members left Moscow for T'giving break, and may or may not have returned yet.

Aaaand does Frat Pres actually KNOW what the bro's told LE? A rather glib or cavalier statement, imo. Not saying anyone in the frat was less than truthful.

Of course w a Tweet, reporter condensed what was said. As always, I keep my salt shaker in hand at the ready. Just thinking aloud.

 

[DeViLintheDetaiL]

Thread 22 and this thread, 23, is chock full of WS members discussing their difference views of what they saw on the food truck video. As much as you want to say it's definitive, many many others seem to think it's definitive he followed them. So it's not just SG and a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists on FB questioning exactly what happened in that video, it's a lot of sound minded, rational, non-salacious people not agreeing about the details of exactly what happened.

If you'd like sources, peruse thread 22 and 23 and read the comments, and watch the video parts mentioned.

I honestly am not sure what exactly happened, I'm more than happy to admit I misinterpreted the video IF that's what I did. I have no vested interest in him following them or not, I'm just confused, as are many others.

Newsweek: Idaho Eyewitness: Murdered Students 'Ditched' Guy at Food Truck That Night.

Idaho eyewitness: Murdered students "ditched" guy at food truck that night

Two of the Idaho Universities students stabbed to death may have "ditched" a man the night before, according to an eyewitness.

www.newsweek.com

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

What about a Stingray unit? Could LE set up a unit inside the house and intercept nearby cell activity?

There are other ways. They can check the perpetrators activity. I hope police are checking that

 

[YepperBepper]

Assuming that is true for the sake of argument, it still doesn't address my question. What the OP and others have suggested is that the perpetrator may have been a hunter who "was very skilled in hunting knife use".

I asked what these supposed skills could be. Hunters do not quietly move around the forest, waiting to pounce on sleeping prey with a knife. They have no more relevant knife skills than a decent home cook.

Additionally, most hunters I know pay to have their kills processed and butchered. They don't do it themselves. Skilled with Bows and Rifles...yes. Knives, not so much. But, that's my experience.

 

[lucidium]

Were they drunk or drink spiked with a drug like GBH/GBH that metabolises as alcohol?

It happens. Often with females which has them staggering, in many cases confusing it with alcohol

In such a place full of university students, a much higher propensity for such perpetrators.

If toxicology is fast enough, it might show up, otherwise will appear as alcohol consumption in toxicology report.

imoo

I think you mean GHB? It does not "metabolize as alcohol."

 

[LizWords]

The interaction between the girls and the two men around 9:05 where one touch one’s jersey chest and the other quickly follows after them made me go hm. Then the interaction with Maddie- the hug and the other guys reaction after it where he steps away and seems exasperated. Had not even noticed any of it because of tunnel vision just focusing on the girl’s lack of interaction with hoodie guy (who is not a suspect.) Interesting if nothing else.

I would be surprised if the female victims weren't used to weird interactions with creepy guys. They're young attractive girls in a college town. K's "stalker" comments which may have been about the creeper that followed her into the store is probably not even that high on the creeper scale for any of these girls. Should they be looked at? Yes. Should the men in their orbit be looked at? Yes. It could be a guy that came off creepy, it could be a random creeper that was unknown to them, or it could have been a more generalized want to kill a bunch of girls sort. Lots of possibilities. Don't envy LE having to sift through all of that.

 

[everybodhi]

What makes a case “not cold”? Say for example: In 6 months time there are still tips coming in, but none have any significance to the case at all in terms of not relevant. The tips aren’t leading to an arrest being made, or identifying a suspect/POI? Nothing is moving the case along as such. Wouldn’t that mean it’s “cold”?
I don’t think it takes years, I think it can take just months for a case to be cold and stalled. IMO

There are many cases that are years old and not labeled “cold”, different departments have different standards for giving that label but if it’s still being investigated it’s “active”.
Complicated cases take longer, three weeks is nothing, it’s in the early stages.
Even when they have a suspect, they often continue gathering evidence before an arrest.
Once it’s labeled “cold” funding directed to the case drops too, we are far from that point.

 

[WildWest]

Case just bugs the hell out of me. I went to college and lived in unsecured apartments. My kids all went to college and lived in apartments, some of them seedy. I cry for these kids and their families. Some thoughts:
1. The guy had to know general house layout. Too risky to go into house in middle of night to do what he did without knowing layout.
2. it was a party house right? Start making lists of who attended the parties. You have two surviving roommates.
3. cops have zero security camera footage of the killer. Hard to believe. But if they did you know we all would have seen grainy, dark camera footage of some guy walking across campus by now on the news, asking if anybody recognizes him.
4. I think he has killed before. Who does something like this on the first kill.
5. It was targeted. The cops were early to say that. They have some clear evidence that they won’t share with public.
6. The guy used a knife either because he wanted to make it personal or didn’t want to deal with the noise and evidence that a gun leaves.
7. the guy was smart. He must have changed clothes and possibly showered at the apartment. Anybody see a guy walking around with a backpack at 4 a.m? He must have left his cell phone at home. The cops have checked phone records for cell tower pings from that area by now and if he took his phone you would think we would have suspect by now.
8. cops should tell landlords to notify them if anybody moves out in next few months
9. I think the break will come from DNA and possibly genetic genealogy
10. probably not as difficult as we think to kill four drunk people in the middle of the night while they sleep.

Are there homeless camps in ID? Crime in my city in Colo skyrocketed after pot was legalized and homeless camps skyrocketed at the same time, make me wonder.

 

[Fleabag]

I don't understand this geography. Idaho is on the west coast next to California. What am I missing?

Yes Idaho is sort of by California but NuttMegg was saying they maybe think and act and have hobbies more similar to people in the south rather than Californians— in particular- meaning hunting is a big part of way of life in Idaho like much of the South

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Idaho murders: Slain student's family plans to hire lawyer amid tensions with police

The father of a murdered Idaho college student plans to enlist a lawyer to help him obtain more information from police amid frustrations over the pace and progress of the probe.

www.foxnews.com

This poor guy. My heart truly goes out to him. IMO, it's a bit too early to go this route but it's is completely understandable why he'd want to. I just hope, whatever he decides to do, will bring him comfort, somehow.

 

[JSTANOVICE]

That FB you linked is awful! I was thinking more along the line of competing for money/status/reputation but we all know what you mentioned happens everywhere. JMO I agree.

I Would Think FBI Is directing This Investigation, And State police, No offense To MPD but They’re Amatuers In This Arena, It’s A small town This Is By far The biggest Investigation They Will ever See in Their lifetimes, So it makes sense To leave it To The expertise Of The FBI And Maybe The state police, but Someone Has To be Directing this investigation And need To make Sure EGOs are kept in check, It seems like We hear A lot of EGOs And differant departments butting heads, Now Isn’t The time, Everyone needs to work Together and leave the EGos At Home, It seems like This happens quite Abit In Small towns when Something big happens