ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 39

[AgeofAquaruis]

What really sticks out to me about this case is the missing time for X,and E. K,and M's whereabouts,and time frame is pretty known,and tight. I think they knew the killer/s and maybe we're with them during the missing time. Possible even in the white Hyundai Elantra. For a while I thought it could be a neighbor angry about the noise,and partying,but the more I think about it the more the missing time seems key. Jmo.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm assuming the animation is based very closely of how the house is laid out.

If the killer is stealth like coming through the sliding door on the middle floor, and assumingly not in the house for very long committing the crime, IMO he must have known the 'kinda abstract' house layout and had been there before.

Also when he went into action I wonder if the house was completely dark, therefore possibly needing a pen/key chain light. Probably didn't use his cell phone light for risking the location pinging evidence.

Imo if he's flying around that house in fit of rage in a short time, or methodically and quietly sneaking about, he knows the layout of the house.

MOO

I wonder if it's possible that the assailant(s) was already hiding inside the home? It doesn't seem the dog alerted anyone, maybe it was placed in the vacant bedroom or a bathroom before they left for the night.

 

[hopewell]

I don't think having a warrant or subpoena necessarily means that the owner can't use or access it. I"m thinking about tax documents, personal documents, etc. Maybe those are always subpoenas - i don't know. But I believe I've seen searchhose warrants for banking documents. The person whose account it is can continue to bank, print out accounts and access accounts - they can have the same records as LE. How would people ever provide stuff to their defense attorney if a warrant meant they couldn't use those documents or pictures themselves?

If I have a digital photo and LE gets a warrant to compel me to give it up (say my CCTV hard drive), I can make a copy before giving it up. It's mine. The police have sought it, but they don't OWN it.

Just because they have a warrant and seized it doesn't mean that it still isn't your property while in their possession (think Kaylee's car). But it does mean if there are contingencies to said warrant, like not copying or not sharing any previously copied information, that the person leaking the information, if germane, could be liable for said leak and the media agency publishing it could be compelled to give up their source.

My opinion.

 

[10ofRods]

But a warrant would permit them to seize it and prevent copies from being made or used, and I imagine a warrant was issued for chain of custody reasons (even if the owner was fully cooperating - which my understanding is he has been). If the recording was backed up prior to any warrant, perhaps it could be as you suggest, but that would be foolish for a variety of reasons.

Indeed, it makes more sense for law enforcement to leak it rather than the club owner. The latter would've almost certainly been admonished not to share information relating to the investigation or charges could be brought. That's standard protocol. And law enforcement could pressure the media for its source if the leak was germane and potentially obstructing justice.

My opinion.

I don't think having a warrant or subpoena necessarily means that the owner can't use or access it. I"m thinking about tax documents, personal documents, etc. Maybe those are always subpoenas - i don't know. But I believe I've seen search warrants for banking documents. The person whose account it is can continue to bank, print out accounts and access accounts - they can have the same records as LE. How would people ever provide stuff to their defense attorney if a warrant meant they couldn't use those documents or pictures themselves?

If I have a digital photo and LE gets a warrant to compel me to give it up (say my CCTV hard drive), I can make a copy before giving it up. It's mine. The police have sought it, but they don't OWN it. There's not even a case filing in this case - LE can't just go grab stuff and make it exclusively theirs. A judge would need to rule on keeping something sealed.

Does anyone think that whomever did this just took a road trip? (I saw a car with an ID plate today- and I am far away- I started to wonder if anyone would look twice at a white elantra in Phila, or SC or WV...)

I do think about it

 

[al66pine]

RAZING the HOUSE?

many houses are cleaned and fixed up where needed and put on the market.

@sleepingmonkey
Yes, exactly. And sometimes an owner-occupier continues living there or an owner renting the house continues renting it out.

BTW, anyone think current owner who has $$$ equity in the prop (anywhere from say $100,000 to $400,000, my sci. wild azz guess) will say to self, Yep, I'll pay to have it razed, then landscaped, and donate to the city?

Not that any post explicitly said that ^, but imo others implied it in previous threads and cases. imo jmo moo

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Does anyone think that whomever did this just took a road trip? (I saw a car with an ID plate today- and I am far away- I started to wonder if anyone would look twice at a white elantra in Phila, or SC or WV...)

Yes. I think it is entirely possible that the killer is not local, but rather drove into Moscow, committed the murders, and left. If this is the case, I think that he surveilled the home either in the days leading up to the murders or on previous occasions.

I also think there is a remote but real possibility that the killer had a legitimate (i.e. work-related) reason to be in Moscow in the days leading up to the murder and timed the murder to coincide with what would have been his expected arrival and departure. I know this may seem like a stretch, but I can't stop thinking about a rape that occurred in the music building on my college campus. The crime went unsolved for a while, but LE ultimately determined that the assailant was a professional comedian touring on the college circuit, and that he had committed similar crimes at other colleges. So he had likely familiarized himself with some of the common features of campus life and used that knowledge to hone his MO.

 

[Montecore1]

I would assume the homeowner's insurance would be covering the clean up costs, could it be the State? I know that bio hazard cleanups like this are extremely expensive, and that just the cleaning and disinfecting, not to mention the repairs/replacement from where floors and even subfloors, drywall, carpeting maybe evening ceilings would have to be removed.

Im in the auto industry and this process was done to a stolen recovered vehicle where the thief cut, what had to be an artery from breaking the door glass because the amount of blood he left. You wouldn't believe the places in this car that the blood traveled to.

 

[Rumination1]

Police desperately want this person off the streets. The persons capabilities are clear. I only hope they get the suspect soon and I doubt the police are delaying on purpose so it must mean they don’t have enough on them or they don’t know who . The silence from the community to me indicate they are also scared of either accusing the actual person or letting the cat out of the bag .

 

[drmrgrl]

IMO, watching this video scared me to death, I literally froze and couldn’t move.

 

[Montecore1]

I wonder if it's possible that the assailant(s) was already hiding inside the home? It doesn't seem the dog alerted anyone, maybe it was placed in the vacant bedroom or a bathroom before they left for the night

I think the doggo is still pretty young and has been so socialized with so many people in and out of the house, people always petting and playing with him that I would bet any stranger could go in there and the pup would prob just welcome them... When the violence began I bet he went and hid

 

[drmrgrl]

I'm assuming the animation is based very closely of how the house is laid out.

If the killer is stealth like coming through the sliding door on the middle floor, and assumingly not in the house for very long committing the crime, IMO he must have known the 'kinda abstract' house layout and had been there before.

Also when he went into action I wonder if the house was completely dark, therefore possibly needing a pen/key chain light. Probably didn't use his cell phone light for risking the location pinging evidence.

Imo if he's flying around that house in fit of rage in a short time, or methodically and quietly sneaking about, he knows the layout of the house.

MOO

IMO, this guys videos are amazing, but very chilling

 

[10ofRods]

Just because they have a warrant and seized it doesn't mean that it still isn't your property while in their possession (think Kaylee's car). But it does mean if there are contingencies to said warrant, like not copying or not sharing any previously copied information, that the person leaking the information, if germane, could be liable for said leak and the media agency publishing it could be compelled to give up their source.

My opinion.

Do you have an example of such a warrant? Because that's a combination of a warrant of seizure for probable cause AND a gag order, all in one - and in a situation where there isn't even a case number nor a way to appeal it.

Police can ask. They can file a case for interference with justice and the court can compel someone not to use their own property, but it cannot be part of a SEARCH warrant (which is a warrant for search and seizure, and does not mean that the person giving up their property can't talk about, contact their own advocates, or, in some cases, continue to use copies of the product).

Media agencies should be a little more careful, of course. I suppose LE could go and waste resources trying to sue a newspaper for legitimately acquired information (if no gag order), but I think that's a silly quest to go on.

Police are, at the same time, asking people to "send in anything" they think is out of the ordinary. The idea that police could then use my photo (what, retroactively? put my photo on a search warrant?) makes me uneasy. And I"m not the only one. I know they've said "We will ignore if if your photo shows some illegal behavior" (or something like that), but many people would not trust police if police are going to use their information however they want (I do not believe police really do this, but I'm seeing that other people do believe police have all this power).

That's why young people who DO have relevant information are putting it on reddit and on TikTok. It's a new world for LE, IMO.

 

[Which_pancake]

What really sticks out to me about this case is the missing time for X,and E. K,and M's whereabouts,and time frame is pretty known,and tight. I think they knew the killer/s and maybe we're with them during the missing time. Possible even in the white Hyundai Elantra. For a while I thought it could be a neighbor angry about the noise,and partying,but the more I think about it the more the missing time seems key. Jmo.

I fully agree. Who knows where they could have gone and with whom. I bet it was someone in a white Elantra though. MOO

 

[TIGER0822]

RAZING the HOUSE?
@sleepingmonkey
Yes, exactly. And sometimes an owner-occupier continues living there or an owner renting the house continues renting it out.

BTW, anyone think current owner who has $$$ equity in the prop (anywhere from say $100,000 to $400,000, my sci. wild azz guess) will say to self, Yep, I'll pay to have it razed, then landscaped, and donate to the city?

Not that any post explicitly said that ^, but imo others implied it in previous threads and cases. imo jmo moo

I have quite a few rentals. If this tragedy occurred in one of them, I would demolish the house and sell the land. I would never be able to rent it out or walk into it without reliving that nightmare.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

RAZING the HOUSE?
@sleepingmonkey
Yes, exactly. And sometimes an owner-occupier continues living there or an owner renting the house continues renting it out.

BTW, anyone think current owner who has $$$ equity in the prop (anywhere from say $100,000 to $400,000, my sci. wild azz guess) will say to self, Yep, I'll pay to have it razed, then landscaped, and donate to the city?

Not that any post explicitly said that ^, but imo others implied it in previous threads and cases. imo jmo moo

In this economy? Not unless they are extremely wealthy (think filthy, stinking rich). MOO

 

[10ofRods]

I fully agree. Who knows where they should have gone and with whom. I bet it was someone in a white Elantra though. MOO

I think that's why LE is encouraging such things as the Corner Club photo. It makes it stark and obvious that nearly every minute of the evening for K and M is documented (many witnesses, many companions, at least three videos, an uber driver, etc).

But almost nothing for X and E.

Also, K and M were also somewhere before they went to Corner Club. I'm not sure we know when they arrived there. What was everyone doing before 9-10 pm?

Of course, I think LE knows a lot from cell phone activity, so I'm very puzzled by what they want the general public to help them with. Makes me uneasy about the progress in this case.

 

[SteveP]

@sleepingmonkey
Yes, exactly. And sometimes an owner-occupier continues living there or an owner renting the house continues renting it out.

BTW, anyone think current owner who has $$$ equity in the prop (anywhere from say $100,000 to $400,000, my sci. wild azz guess) will say to self, Yep, I'll pay to have it razed, then landscaped, and donate to the city?

Not that any post explicitly said that ^, but imo others implied it in previous threads and cases. imo jmo moo

I do understand people wishing that the home will be demolished, and some type of memorial placed at the location, but realistically, that just isn't going to happen. As many have pointed out, that property is a valuable asset to the owners, bringing in substantial money monthly, year-round. If perhaps the home were to be put on the market for sale, there are many who undoubtedly would have no interest in it at all, based on its history, which will be well-known in that area probably for as long as the house sits at that spot. In such a case, it might sit on the market a little longer than the same house would if it did not have a morbid history, but it would eventually sell to someone at some price. The design of the house probably means that any buyer would be buying it as an investment property, with no plan to actually live there. But as a rental with six bedrooms and three bathrooms, within walking distance to campus, it will remain a hot property, regardless of history. There is probably an annual turnover of tenants, or at the most, a biennial turnover, and within a year or two, once the headlines have been forgotten, it will just become the house that college kids will hear about once on campus, most likely, and will likely not evoke the visceral reaction that we all probably would have. JMO

 

[drmrgrl]

IMO, this whole scene is so ominous with the creepy music and that dog just sitting there staring…there are no words..

 

[Jawds78]

Does anyone think that whomever did this just took a road trip? (I saw a car with an ID plate today- and I am far away- I started to wonder if anyone would look twice at a white elantra in Phila, or SC or WV...)

I've been in 2 of those recently. No one I've talked to is looking or seems to know anything about this case. I looked for awhile when we traveled recently, but there are so many white cars with this body style it was daunting. I couldn't even keep up, and I wasn't driving! MOO

 

[chrisinmd]

So if this Case goes unsolved with no arrest where do you think it ranks with other unsolved murder mysteries? I guess Jon Boney Ramsey would be the closest comparison in my lifetime.