ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 55

[GoJacks]

My timeline is very similar but I have him upstairs at 4:08-4:12 and downstairs at 4:12-4:17 which is 9 minutes in the house. JMO from reading the AA.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

Very possible. I think earliest he could be in the house was that time. 4:08 is more likely.

Any thoughts on why BK passed Loma,Colorado on the way back to PA? It is not on the shortest route

Weather, possibly? Storm through Montana- Dakota's around that time if I'm remembering correctly.

I still can’t wrap my head around that he brought his cell phone….

I'm more flabbergasted he drove his own vehicle to scene of crime. And not only that he wasn't sly about it. Driving past 3-4 times. 3 points turns (lol) all in the middle of the night while he knows he's about to commit a homicide.

I'm wondering if he got lost on way home and had to turn the phone on to get home. (Burger King doesn't seem all that intelligent to me, atleast in a street smart sense)

The fact that he was dumping trash in his neighbors' bins would suggest he knew he was being watched (or might be watched) Possibly knowing the mistakes he made along the way-leaving the sheath etc etc would eventually lead the cops to him...

I wonder if the back to back stops in Indiana spooked him. By this point he knew he left a sheath. There were said rumors already going around on the internet about sheath/DNA being on it. He knew he drove a white Elentra. I think he was extremely paranoid by this point (rightfully so).

Im wondering if he didn't super clean the car after the murders as he knew (potentially) that could stand out to LEO & random witnesses. If he took it to a car wash - chances are LE would look into that. Small area, sure there weren't a lot. If he cleaned it in his apartment complex after a quadruple homicide 9 miles away, that would alert people. He did just enough to clean it I think initially. After he got to PA and was pulled over twice along the way he went into total panic mode and gave that thing the new car special in the middle of the night. Which also is like did he really believe he was being watched if he cleaned his car in the middle of the night in December.

JMO.

 

[Tbone144]

the sheath is not conveniet without a belt but carring a super sharp 7" knife around without a sheath is also not convenient- did he wrap it in a towel or something?

Mine is connected to my hiking pack which is why it rarely makes it to the barn. Sheath is woven through the belt on pack. It isn’t convenient to remove it and my “belt” is a nylon strap. I don’t think a leather one would fit with my sheath but I’ll pull it out. I don’t remember if affidavit said it was leather sheath or just a sheath with the markings on it. If it’s the snap style sheath to loop over and attach to belt I’m wondering if the disposable clothing didn’t have belt loops or allow for something to hang (thinking sweats or tyvek) and therefore he had to carry it. He set it down at the first scene and then in his adrenaline rush, forgot where he put it or forgot that he even had it with thinking maybe he left it in the car and then when he realized his error he hoped he had cleaned it well enough. Coming back by the next days lends me to believe he didn’t know there were survivors and was hoping to go back in and retrieve it, once he realized it wasn’t in the car.

All speculative and IMOO.

 

[Aquarian]

I know that they have his DNA but I am just wondering how effective his cleaning methods really are. The fact that he is cleaning so thoroughly and tossing waste in his neighbor's trash is strange.

Plus I feel he cleaned back in WA after his Albertsons trip, imo.

 

[diabeticrockstar]

Can someone confirm to me the location of D.M.'s room? I had been working under the idea that it was on the first floor. Was it on the second floor? That's the only thing that makes sense with the info that the intruder passed by her and left through the sliding glass door.

 

[MamaZA]

I agree with timeline. Chilling that BK potentially said this to Xana.

 

[calmdownjudy]

As for D, she might have passed out if she saw blood or if she had realized what just happened. Shock and fear can have a powerful effect on someone.

I know someone who passes out at the sight of blood or if something in imbedded in the skin (like a needle or glass). Someone talking about surgery can make her pass out too. And it's not like in the movies. They don't fall over gracefully and come to immediately. My friend passed out and it took a long time (it felt like forever) to wake her up. We were on the phone with 911, trying to wake her up. She came to and then she passed out again immediately. It was so scary. We were not using drugs or drinking or anything like that. And she hit the floor hard. We thought she hit her head and had an injury.

D could be like that. The shock, fear, the realization of what happened, or the sight of blood could have caused her to pass out. She could have woken up disoriented or hit her head or anything.

 

[x_files]

How about the fact that his hands are completely unshackled???? I would definitely be on edge.

I wouldn't worry about what he might do in court because there are armed guards there but I would FEAR defending him and getting him acquitted only to find gain a violent obsessed stalker.
I could not defend someone I thought could be guilty. Could not do it. No way.

 

[Friday Fan]

Just to bring a moment of levity in this incredibly sad situation and thread....

Yes, I know my photoshop of the floorplan is kindergarten-level. But also.... Wow.... there really is an Emoji for everything now!

I mean... man ("ninja") dressed in all black with a mask and a blade? A "hiding" girl? Crazy. I'm still pissed that no one has invented the "sarcasm" font for text messages yet...but we've come so far technologically.

I think it was very well done, except DM should be facing her doorway.

The floor plan is hard to understand and your map simplified things.

 

[x_files]

I'm sure they did. But a warrant wont do them any good if BK got rid of the phone before he was arrested. JMO.

Cellphone data is stored with his cellphone provider. He cannot destroy that data.

 

[rescuemom]

I don't know, maybe that was peoples perception of his awkward personality and trying to fit in because for someone who apparently thinks they are so smart, so clever and intellectually better than others he did quite a craptastic thing here, he left clues all over the place...the basic obvious clue, he took his own car. That alone doesn't take much forethought

If you had the chance to ask him I bet he would disagree

 

[Aquarian]

Forgive my ignorance but XK’s dad said she had bruises from the knife. Surely, it takes a while for bruises to form? (Correct me if wrong) so while she was bleeding out the bruises formed? Because I’ve never had a bruise form instantly before? Or is it different with knives/dying?

He may have gone after her two different times. Meaning she bruised bc she was injured and wasn’t deceased so there was blood flow. Maybe then fought Ethan then went back to her. That follows the sequence so many are agreeing with?

 

[Gardenista]

They updated the PCA and there is no longer a full page redacted. There is also no new info. Looks like it was an error

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

People drunk or blacked out still can walk around and barely remember it the next day which is different from being passed-out drunk. I'm assuming she drank that night because she went out that night.

Yes, this is perhaps the most perplexing piece of information from the affidavit: the absence of any detail of the immediate moments after roommate allegedly sees BK, is in fear/shock phase as he walks past her, locks and then closes door.

It is quite strange that there is no description—whatsoever—of any action taken by roommate, even if that action was getting back in bed and going to sleep, for example. And when 911 call is placed the next day, is there a reference to the sighting of an intruder in the house from earlier in the morning (4 am-ish)?

 

[x_files]

He can delete his google history etc.
I bet he had a social media account, which he deleted before he was caught.

No, you cannot permanently delete your Google searches. Even your social media info is backed up. Everything you search online can be retrieved.
He would have to use a VPN to disguise his ISP address.

 

[b2alicia]

Hi guys. Have I missed a post about locating the DoorDash delivery person? Or the central office, or web site, where the orders come in? Not necessary for their name or anything, just, IMO, a verification of the time.

 

[10ofRods]

A developing hypothesis about who was targeted and "why"

What if M and X were BK's intended targets, because he desired them and could not have them (jealousy as well as humiliation).

He might have encountered them initially at Mad Greek before stalking outside of that setting -- via a combination of SM and frequent drive-bys at 1122 King. I'm guessing BK's earlier exchange with the bar owner in PA, wherein the owner politely let BK know that his behavior towards the female servers was not appreciated/acceptable, may have humiliated BK and also prompted him to abandon that pattern of behavior, which clearly came off as creepy to others. Without the option of badgering and harassing women in bars/restaurants, he likely would have looked for an alternative. One alternative may have been to observe/identify women in public places (e.g., Mad Greek) and then watch/stalk them without their knowledge.

This hypothesis seems consistent with the sheath being found next to M's body, which to me signals that she would have been the/a primary target. It also would be consistent with the unsubstantiated reports/speculation that E and K may have received the most severe wounds. Because K and E--especially if they were both sharing beds with his primary targets M and X in that moment--were essentially rivals in BK's warped mind. They had the thing he wanted more than anything but could not have -- emotional and physical closeness with M and X. He killed the women he couldn't have and brutalized his rivals, and then he was done. No need to pay any mind to DM on the way out of the house.

I think he might have learned to disguise himself, somewhat. I strongly believe he practiced his mugshot stare in the mirror at home, and that he probably also practiced smiling more and looking more human (so as to catch the ladies).

Since he sucked at picking women up in bars (many men do, IMO), he revised his strategy and you may be absolutely right about Mad Greek (even if employees don't recognize him as a customer, he might still have hung out around that area). I suspect he followed more than one group of women, eventually leading him to the relationships among the party houses, where there were no bouncers or managers or anyone to antagonize him with their official scrutiny.

I do think he wanted to kill more than one woman at one time and did not need much to trigger him. I definitely think he was stalking them, but I don't think he was K's mentioned stalker (the story as told by her parents doesn't even sound like a stalker), Did K think she had a new stalker? Did both M and K feel uneasy that night? Since K had been gone from the house for 1.5 weeks, she may not have engaged in a lot of talk about this issue upon her brief return. I assume that prior to her break-up with JD, he too was at the house a lot - providing a measure of "masculine security." BK may have noticed that K was gone and JD not around - time to shape up his own plans.

He would have benefited from having a good friend in his life, but apparently was incapable of that kind of closeness.

 

[kittythehare]

I think this article is referencing the act of recovering torrent files that have been downloaded, rather than recovering something such as search history which would have taken place inside of the actual torrent file. I'm wondering if searches or activity would also be recovered if the torrent was redownloaded or if there is no way in finding what activity took place on a torrent browser. JMO

I'm trying to google search it under fBI abilities.. it's not clear.. might be worth trying different search terms, possibly also under espionage? I know a few years ago Tor became dangerous for activists in Turkey. Israel may also have capacity?

 

[TL4S]

the sheath is not conveniet without a belt but carring a super sharp 7" knife around without a sheath is also not convenient- did he wrap it in a towel or something?

Keeping it in its sheath during transportation makes sense, or using the sheath attached to a belt to carry around makes sense, but once he took that 7" knife out of its sheath, he walked from room to room and all the way back to his car without sheathing the knife again. He likely held it freely in his hand. And once in his car, he had to have put it somewhere, knowing he didn't have the sheath on. It's an enormous mistake. Just think about the motions he went through without realizing the sheath was gone (or too worried about going back through the house to look for it). I think if he was thinking it all the way through, he would have taken the knife out of the sheath and left the sheath in the car for the murders. Carrying the knife into the house and up the stairs, unsheathed, would be nothing compared to stabbing people with it, so I just don't think he thought about it. I think he got satisfaction from holding that knife in his hand, honestly.

 

[Dre]

They updated the PCA and there is no longer a full page redacted. There is also no new info. Looks like it was an error

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

I only see that they removed the blank redacted page that was Ethan's autopsy, I see no new info.
Do you know what/where the new info is? TIA

 

[x_files]

I have the same questions. Right now, I don't feel we know nearly enough to say if ANY one person was targeted in that house and LE has never confirmed that an individual was targeted.

So, my own mind focuses on Targeting the House. Also, general victimology.

I believe he started out choosing U of ID as his target for his crimes, because he knew from his classes that when a killer goes out of one jurisdiction into another, it complicates things for LE. However, he wasn't paying close attention because Pullman and Moscow police have all kinds of connections and often operate smoothly and jointly, due to the nature of their towns. He ought to have gone further away, but I think he's very unaccustomed to being on his own or traveling far on his own.

Why choose a college town? First, there are lots of sketchy situations that students get themselves into (walking out late at night, not locking doors, not being particularly concerned about nearby strangers who look like students, etc). Second, I think BK hated the easy sociality of the undergrad population at the relatively compact and self-contained campus of U of ID. His own student housing was a couple of miles from the main campus; 1122 King Road was centrally located for student social life. He had been excluded (IMO) from an active student social life in high school, then again at community college (which was a commuter college), and then of course, by the hybrid nature of DeSales university where he didn't even meet some of his professors.

Deep inside, his identity formation has been squashed by lack of proper socialization as a regular student, he knows it, sees it and regrets it. Then, when the students he's TAing rat him out to the professor, his hatred of students goes up another notch.

I also believe he hates humans in general (rather obviously).

This was a crime against aspiring young people, their families - and his own family. It was a crime against all the people of Idaho, who were anxious and grieving along with the families (and all the rest of us who care). It was a crime against the partying culture of people he perceived as "not serious" students, not like him. He saw himself as better than those students, but they were the ones who (from his POV) were privileged and acting entitled. Doesn't even matter if any of the women ever ran into him, we know that he had had less than ideal interactions with other women and appears never to have had a GF or SO.

It was a crime against LE and criminologists, as well (the hatred bubbled up after the prof took the students' side in the grading matter). He had been planning hate-based crimes of annihilation in his mind (practicing them might be a better word), likely for years. Maybe most of his life. He was rejected as an intern by Pullman PD, etc. It was a crime against his own professors, whom he has made into caricatures, basically.

It was a crime against his mother and father and sisters, too. Perhaps they considered a college education to be a chief sign of success - well, he sure showed them, didn't he? And his anti-death penalty mother now gets to watch him be tried in a state that permits the DP and is only deterred from using it right now due to lack of means (proper chemicals cannot be procured).

He didn't need a specific victim. I believe he wanted to compete with Rader and Bundy and to confound criminologists and others who study crime with the peculiarity of his crime. Before he attacked, he thought he'd get away with it. He acted in a robotic manner during the crime, having practiced the physical parts of it back in his own apartment and mentally while boxing. He did manage to tie both Rader and Bundy for most victims at a single crime scene, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be surprised (when he dumps his memoirs on the world) if BK actually had the number 4 in mind before he started out that night.

IMO.

I concur with your line of thinking. He projected hs hatred of others, especially women that made him feel invisible, rejected, and small, and refused to admire his intellect.
I do think he studied BTK and Bundy.