ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 61

[TL4S]

"He seemed really nervous," a police source who was involved in the process tells PEOPLE. "He was narrating to himself everything that was happening. At one point, he was saying something to himself like 'I'm fine, this is okay.' Like he was reassuring himself that this whole thing wasn't awful."

Idaho Murder Suspect Spoke About Slain Students During Extradition: 'It's Really Sad What Happened to Them'

Bryan Kohberger, 28, was arrested in Pennsylvania in connection with the killings of Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Madison Mogen, and Kaylee Goncalves

people.com

Reminds me of the "it's okay, I'm going to help you" line...

 

[isabella88]

Just saw a commercial for Cuomo on News Nation. He will be talking to the woman who went on the Tinder date with BK, not another gf.

 

[Aquarian]

You mean M's bedroom?

I’m so lost now

 

[Dialectic]

Okay, maybe I need help on this. If you look at the house from above on Google, the 3rd floor balcony is on the southwest corner of the house. That is KG's room, and MM's is the southeast corner. Is that correct? The sliding door into the kitchen is just below the balcony sliding door, so XK's room would be the southeast corner under M's room. If this isn't right, then I'm totally turned around.

A not exact, old layout of the 2nd and 3rd floor from this article:

University of ID students REFUSE to return until suspect is caught

University of Idaho President Scott Green announced on Wednesday that students will have the option to take classes in-person or remotely for the rest of the semester.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Ethan and Xana were 1 & 2.

Since this layout was posted, it was determined that Madison and Kaylee were both in Madison's room (4).

 

[gliving]

Considering that the timeline is rather tight to start with, I hate to have to allow time for BK to move the dog around, when it’s not necessary.

And I think it’s not necessary. I think it makes sense that Kaylee put the dog to bed for the night, in her bedroom. Then she settled down with Maddie, to talk about the evening, who told what to whom. Kaylee determinedly tried to call her ex; she asked Maddie to try, to see if he’d answer HER, then Kaylee phoned him a few more times, and then they both drifted off to sleep, maybe sometime near 3:00 am.

All this entirely my speculation

It could be this way but Kaylee's mom said Murphy either slept with Maddie or Kaylee. If he wasn't with them, then he would raise a ruckus. So I pictured him initially in bed with one or both of them.

Parents of slain Idaho student desperate for answers: 'Where are you? Who are you?'

The parents of 21-year-old Kaylee Goncalves, one of the four slain University of Idaho students, are desperate for answers.

abcnews.go.com

Kaylee's mom said Murphy usually slept with Kaylee or Madison Mogen. Murphy didn't usually bark, but if locked in a room by the suspect, he'd likely bark, whine and scratch at the door, she said.

"She loved that dog and she took him everywhere," Kristi Goncalves said.

 

[10ofRods]

There are dummies made of various materials out there, even human-shaped dummies, used for martial arts and knife skills training. He was into boxing, apparently, so there may have seen some in the gym he went to. For practicing in the privacy of his own home, he could have bought one or had something homemade. If this was the case, I'm sure LE will find it.

This website offers lots of equipment suggestions, as an example: Solitary Knife Fighting

Speculation on my part, of course, but practice dummies seem more plausible than acquiring an animal carcass. Whole animal carcasses would be expensive and messy/smelly.

THANK you. I just knew there had to be a way that all these knife enthusiasts (who knew there were so many?) were practicing their self-defense skills.

I would love to know if there was a practice dummy (perhaps gotten during his kickboxing days) back at his home in PA.

I can see how his parents would have encouraged the kickboxing/boxing since he was being bullied. And he seems to have gotten really fit while doing it. But a practice dummy showing up in court, wow, what a visual that would make (unlikely it still exists, if it did). I was thinking maybe just practice jabbing at those regular boxing "dummy" things (without a knife, just the motion).

 

[TL4S]

A not exact, old layout of the 2nd and 3rd floor from this article:

University of ID students REFUSE to return until suspect is caught

University of Idaho President Scott Green announced on Wednesday that students will have the option to take classes in-person or remotely for the rest of the semester.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Ethan and Xana were 1 & 2.

Since this layout was posted, it was determined that Madison and Kaylee were both in Madison's room (4).


View attachment 394488

Okay, that helps. Sheesh, I'm all messed up! Sorry everyone!

 

[happyday]

I found John Wayne Gacy's brain under study:

Scientists look at infamous serial killer's brain in search for explanation

The shrunken, sliced brain of serial killer John Wayne Gacy has been preserved in a Ziploc bag since his execution 15 years ago.

www.wmbfnews.com

It was preserved and was no longer its initial dimensions, but the brain morphology was still there. However, at the time of its dissection, science didn't have the powerful techniques it has now for looking deep into the neurons, so it wasn't very helpful.

Scientists use the next best thing (S.P.E.C.T. analysis, which is a kind of MRI). And there, we do find differences between serial killers (usually in prison for life or on death row, they consent to these studies) and the rest of us.

Ted Bundy's brain was given over for study, but I can't find anything scholarly published about it (or in reputable newspapers, for that matter). If anyone finds anything, please post. What they did find, of course, was that MRI and other brain scans showed an abnormal brain (it's probably the physiology as much as the anatomy and things like S.P.E.C.T. can help figure that out - we didn't have S.P.E.C.T. back then, but there were CAT-Scans and maybe MRI's (not sure).

Here's an article on what the scanning data seem to show:

Scientists look at infamous serial killer's brain in search for explanation

The shrunken, sliced brain of serial killer John Wayne Gacy has been preserved in a Ziploc bag since his execution 15 years ago.

www.wmbfnews.com

The actual academic literature on this topic just gets bigger every year. Right pre-frontal cortex, hippocampus and the amygdala all seem to operate differently in the convicted killers (and for the last two structures, the differences are very small on gross examination, but show up when the brain is in action).

Thank you! This is exactly what I was wondering, and I knew you’d know! I figured they must be studying it, but I hadn’t looked into it. Fascinating.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I actually don't think that's gaslighting at all. I think the term gaslighting is very overused, to the point that it's lost its meaning. Gaslighting is a method of psychological abuse whereas the above post is simply presenting an alternative explanation/defense of the behavior. I think there's a legitimate question to ask here considering it's a Tinder date and we haven't heard BK's side of the interaction. I'm always a bit weary of these "girlfriends from the past" tell-alls that seem to surface anytime someone commits a crime of notoriety.

And yet, taken at face value, her story kind of fits his expected MO with women.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Yours may be just as valid.

But somehow I don't think even BK would have a good rebuttal to this tender Tinder tale of woe.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

Regarding BK potentially training in knife combat/use, I wonder if he ever trained in Krav Maga. If he took boxing or kickboxing, he may have had units that focused on Krav Maga. I am a first degree black belt in Taekwondo, and we had multiple Krav Maga sessions/units over the years when I was active training. Just a thought, as I specifically remember using hard rubber knives to train, and learning (and practicing) where and when to strike or slash, etc. Sorry, not trying to be insensitive. All MOO.

Krav Maga - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's so great to hear your thoughts. I'm trying not to be insensitive, as well, but at the core of this case is going to be manner of death and how that ties in to the defendant. Training in such things (of any kind) will be mentioned. Kickboxing is such a generic term - we don't know exactly where he was training/practicing.

Great information. The rubber knife is eerie but makes so much sense.

 

[Counttrarian]

I don't have a number but off the top of my head these killers did not know their victims;BTK, Ted Bundy, Gary Ridgeway. Many were crimes of opportunity many were random victims that were targeted stalked and then killed

Bundy (Lynda Ann Healy), BTK (Otero) lived within blocks or their victims, Ridgeway picked up sex workers which is a different dynamic. So yes essentially random, but close proximity.

Trying to find any notable ones for which there was not a sexual component.
David Berkowitz?

 

[elainebenice]

I don't have a number but off the top of my head these killers did not know their victims;BTK, Ted Bundy Many were crimes of opportunity many were random victims that were targeted stalked and then killed. BTK killed whole families, Bundy killed the sorority girls in addition to his other victims, not sure if he falls in both categories.

BTK knew Marine Hedge

ETA: he also didn't know Mr Otero was going to be home that day so that "family kill" wasn't planned

 

[TL4S]

A not exact, old layout of the 2nd and 3rd floor from this article:

University of ID students REFUSE to return until suspect is caught

University of Idaho President Scott Green announced on Wednesday that students will have the option to take classes in-person or remotely for the rest of the semester.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Ethan and Xana were 1 & 2.

Since this layout was posted, it was determined that Madison and Kaylee were both in Madison's room (4).


View attachment 394488

Now I see why the camera picked up those noises so well. It also makes me rethink the playing with dog noise, which seems could have actually come from M's room. Did DM just hear shuffling around, or dog sounds, which does make me wonder. Man, I need to rethink this whole thing now. Thank you for setting me straight!

 

[NottaYutz]

Thanks I found the thread where it’s first talked about. Tons of info in that affidavit. I had to read it a few times and cross reference some other stuff to finally figure out where all roommates were sleeping and where everyone was located.

I’ll probably just point out some things that stood out to me. Fascinating case.

FYI I bookmarked this post, which shows other documents. You might find them interesting as well. ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 58

 

[Dialectic]

Now I see why the camera picked up those noises so well. It also makes me rethink the playing with dog noise, which seems could have actually come from M's room. Did DM just hear shuffling around, or dog sounds, which does make me wonder. Man, I need to rethink this whole thing now. Thank you for setting me straight!

She described the noises as sounding like Kaylee playing with her dog. It doesn't mean that is what the sounds were, just what she thought it was. From the PCA:

 

[detective not]

I’m new here but have followed the threads intensely. The thing I wonder about is, how is it not one of them got off a loud scream, especially X?

 

[Tnowlin]

MOO order E.C then upstairs K.G M.M then back down stairs to X.K she was getting food when B.K. entered.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Wowsa. The gaslighting part is creepy as heck. Does this guy really not remember what he's just done with his hands?

The Brewery incident is similar, in that he either has forgotten his past behavior or is, once again, gaslighting.

I'm beginning to think that the mitigating evidence presented by BK's attorneys (in the death penalty phase of the proceedings) will lean heavily into a dissociative or depersonalization disorder. Interesting to read the above anecdotes and then read about the symptoms of such disorders. If BK was already experiencing depersonalization circa age 15, he's lived half of his life with this condition and with awareness of this condition.

Depersonalization-Derealization Disorder

We all feel a bit of detachment from the world sometimes. Find out when to seek help.

my.clevelandclinic.org

One noteworthy quote:

The difference between depersonalization and psychotic disorders is awareness. People with depersonalization disorder know the feelings of detachment are not real. People with a psychotic disorder believe their feelings are reality.

 

[Skigirl]

I’m new here but have followed the threads intensely. The thing I wonder about is, how is it not one of them got off a loud scream, especially X?

A man walked into my apartment one time, and I was so scared that I could barely get a breath, much less scream, so it wouldn't surprise me that much if no one let out a full-throated scream.

 

[Bhodie]

It's was a Tinder date, we're not exactly talking furtive glances during an Amish barn raising. She's now selling the story to a tabloid paper.

I don't even know why she was interviewed she said nothing of substance.