NE NE - Chance Englebert, 25, Gering, 6 July 2019 (new father) #2

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Rhoades said:
How long can DNA from blood that’s seeped into the ground last?
Click to expand...
Othram might respond with their professional POV, and here is a scholarly article that addresses your question. Bottom line; long enough for the purposes of this case.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The persistence of human DNA in soil following surface decomposition - PubMed

Though recent decades have seen a marked increase in research concerning the impact of human decomposition on the grave soil environment, the fate of human DNA in grave soil has been relatively understudied. With the purpose of supplementing the growing body of literature in forensic soil...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Rhoades said:
It is documented widely there is only 1 person who on record has given any statements regarding the moment Chance walked off; his widow Baylee Bewley Englebert. There are no other persons who have ever made any statements about her arrival at the golf course, her ride with victim back to her grandparents house, or him walking off.
These documented statements, as well as others, are conflicting.

Following the potential theory of foul play~
If he walked off he would have been quite upset, but it seems there would need to be a larger underlying issue if it escalated to the point of homicidal violence, then body is disposed of/hidden.

IMO there are 3 plausible possible foul play theories~
1) Family homicidal violence, disposal of body.
2) Robbers found him, possibly targeted for mugging, grabbed him off the road beyond where cams would be, robbed him, killed him, disposed of him somewhere.
3) Human Trafficking

I lean with family violence because of the lack of family involvement after disappearance, widow never allowing the child to be involved with victim’s family, conflicting statements by wife who is only one besides victim with true nature of the days events leading up to CE walking off, wife’s family are long term residents of area he vanished from providing means for successful hiding of body, documented family conflicts on the day of disappearance.
However, imo, there must be a much larger underlying issue of conflict escalation if he met the type of foul play that would cause him to completely vanish.

What are your thoughts on what kind of issues could/would escalate anger in someone or group of family members against someone, to the point of homicidal violence?
What are your thoughts regarding foul play theory 2?
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To answer your question about theory #2, I would say extremely low. City data shows us there were 0 murders in Gering, NB from 2006 - 19. Low risk area.

I think Chance met with misadventure as he was allegedly inebriated and close to water. Men (inebriated or otherwise)+ water = many tragic outcomes

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
rosesfromangels said:
To answer your question about theory #2, I would say extremely low. City data shows us there were 0 murders in Gering, NB from 2006 - 19. Low risk area.

I think Chance met with misadventure as he was allegedly inebriated and close to water. Men (inebriated or otherwise)+ water = many tragic outcomes

Amateur opinion and speculation
Click to expand...
Theory #2 while possible is extremely low indeed.

IMO the least sad thing to have happened would be a misadventure of some type, and is equally as unlikely as foul play theory #2; no body or belongings of any kind were ever located.
 
Rhoades said:
Theory #2 while possible is extremely low indeed.

IMO the least sad thing to have happened would be a misadventure of some type, and is equally as unlikely as foul play theory #2; no body or belongings of any kind were ever located.
Click to expand...
Respectfully have to disagree on the point of finding him or possessions. Finding remains outdoors is exceedingly difficult, and most especially in open territory. I know of searches where remains have literally been stepped over, to be found later. Mother Nature embraces and camouflages remains. Even shiny objects like belt buckles get covered with dirt and debris and aren’t easily seen. This is why once an area has been identified as a target zone you will see searchers on their knees shoulder to shoulder. In large open areas other technologies are emerging that are helping, but it’s still an “against all odds” undertaking. I am speaking as an amateur who volunteers for SAR efforts as frequently as I can. It’s physically demanding, and mentally exhausting. We have some professional SAR folks who jump in on threads from time to time, and I’ve learned a lot from their posts.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
rosesfromangels said:
Othram might respond with their professional POV, and here is a scholarly article that addresses your question. Bottom line; long enough for the purposes of this case.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The persistence of human DNA in soil following surface decomposition - PubMed

Though recent decades have seen a marked increase in research concerning the impact of human decomposition on the grave soil environment, the fate of human DNA in grave soil has been relatively understudied. With the purpose of supplementing the growing body of literature in forensic soil...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Amateur opinion and speculation
Click to expand...
Makes sense. In the absence of extreme heat or chemical insult, DNA is fairly stable and should be suitable for analysis.
 
rosesfromangels said:
Respectfully have to disagree on the point of finding him or possessions. Finding remains outdoors is exceedingly difficult, and most especially in open territory. I know of searches where remains have literally been stepped over, to be found later. Mother Nature embraces and camouflages remains. Even shiny objects like belt buckles get covered with dirt and debris and aren’t easily seen. This is why once an area has been identified as a target zone you will see searchers on their knees shoulder to shoulder. In large open areas other technologies are emerging that are helping, but it’s still an “against all odds” undertaking. I am speaking as an amateur who volunteers for SAR efforts as frequently as I can. It’s physically demanding, and mentally exhausting. We have some professional SAR folks who jump in on threads from time to time, and I’ve learned a lot from their posts.

Amateur opinion and speculation
Click to expand...
othram said:
Makes sense. In the absence of extreme heat or chemical insult, DNA is fairly stable and should be suitable for analysis.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your thoughts on that!
 
rosesfromangels said:
Respectfully have to disagree on the point of finding him or possessions. Finding remains outdoors is exceedingly difficult, and most especially in open territory. I know of searches where remains have literally been stepped over, to be found later. Mother Nature embraces and camouflages remains. Even shiny objects like belt buckles get covered with dirt and debris and aren’t easily seen. This is why once an area has been identified as a target zone you will see searchers on their knees shoulder to shoulder. In large open areas other technologies are emerging that are helping, but it’s still an “against all odds” undertaking. I am speaking as an amateur who volunteers for SAR efforts as frequently as I can. It’s physically demanding, and mentally exhausting. We have some professional SAR folks who jump in on threads from time to time, and I’ve learned a lot from their posts.

Amateur opinion and speculation
Click to expand...
I didn’t include misadventure/accident or suicide within the body of my ? because I want to explore the foul play theories.

I truly appreciate your thoughts! However, you didn’t express your thoughts regarding any theory of foul play. I realize you very much feel it was misadventure as I read all posts/thoughts on this case here on websleuths.

It’s impossible to rule out any theory on this case, but for the sake of my investigation of over a year foul play is absolutely most likely at the root of his disappearance and while there is constantly chatter about foul play online, its very fraught with drama, and is the least officially investigated theory to date.

Thus, it is foul play that I am focused on and what my investigation has led me to explore at this time.

I thought it would be great to get other sleuths thoughts on the kinds of things that could/would take the conflicts documented to have occurred that day and escalate them to murder; if that is what happened.

I have been investigating without focusing on any one theory and will continue to do so. However, at this point what I have uncovered has led me to very much lean toward foul play and to reach out here with my ? as It would be helpful to hear feedback on foul play #1.
 
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Rhoades said:
I didn’t include misadventure/accident or suicide within the body of my ? because I want to explore the foul play theories.

I truly appreciate your thoughts! However, you didn’t express your thoughts regarding any theory of foul play. I realize you very much feel it was misadventure as I read all posts/thoughts on this case here on websleuths.

It’s impossible to rule out any theory on this case, but for the sake of my investigation of over a year foul play is absolutely most likely at the root of his disappearance and while there is constantly chatter about foul play online, its very fraught with drama, and is the least officially investigated theory to date.

Thus, it is foul play that I am focused on and what my investigation has led me to explore at this time.

I thought it would be great to get other sleuths thoughts on the kinds of things that could/would take the conflicts documented to have occurred that day and escalate them to murder; if that is what happened.

I have been investigating without focusing on any one theory and will continue to do so. However, at this point what I have uncovered has led me to very much lean toward foul play and to reach out here with my ? as It would be helpful to hear feedback on foul play #1.
Click to expand...
I was very much in the foul play camp at first, given some of the odd remarks and actions of certain individuals. However, I am satisfied that LE vigorously investigated various concerns, some comparable to Jimmy Hoffa theories.

I think that there were comments and actions immediately following Chance’s disappearance that were concerning, and at minimum, highly insensitive; but that doesn’t equate to criminality, necessarily. I think some people may eventually regret being so insensitive; at least I hope they will.

On a positive note, Chance’s friend Matt has shown the world what a true blue friend looks like.

Someday Chance will be found, and very likely where there have been searches before. For the sake of those that love him, I hope it will be soon.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
rosesfromangels said:
I was very much in the foul play camp at first, given some of the odd remarks and actions of certain individuals. However, I am satisfied that LE vigorously investigated various concerns, some comparable to Jimmy Hoffa theories.

I think that there were comments and actions immediately following Chance’s disappearance that were concerning, and at minimum, highly insensitive; but that doesn’t equate to criminality, necessarily. I think some people may eventually regret being so insensitive; at least I hope they will.

On a positive note, Chance’s friend Matt has shown the world what a true blue friend looks like.

Someday Chance will be found, and very likely where there have been searches before. For the sake of those that love him, I hope it will be soon.

Amateur opinion and speculation
Click to expand...
I personally am very unsatisfied with LE efforts for many reasons and without new credible leads I don’t see them putting any more effort into investigating. It’s difficult for small jurisdictions to continue active investigation on limited budgets/resources. Even Chance’s family feels that is is an issue for his case. Additionally; when his occurs and active investigation is slowed and/or haulted due to lack of funding/resources it is then extremely difficult to garner the assistance of other jurisdictions; such as NSP. Its a numbers issue, a money issue.

I agree Matt is an incredible friend and his family very much needs him found.
Until the answers come there will be no peace for anyone who loves him.

I believe he will be found, but I also believe that it will take outside the box thinking to find out what happened and thus find him.
 
Rhoades said:
I personally am very unsatisfied with LE efforts for many reasons and without new credible leads I don’t see them putting any more effort into investigating. It’s difficult for small jurisdictions to continue active investigation on limited budgets/resources. Even Chance’s family feels that is is an issue for his case. Additionally; when his occurs and active investigation is slowed and/or haulted due to lack of funding/resources it is then extremely difficult to garner the assistance of other jurisdictions; such as NSP. Its a numbers issue, a money issue.

I agree Matt is an incredible friend and his family very much needs him found.
Until the answers come there will be no peace for anyone who loves him.

I believe he will be found, but I also believe that it will take outside the box thinking to find out what happened and thus find him.
Click to expand...
Agree with all your points here, with the exception that I think he will be found randomly, as many of these cases are resolved.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Rereading what we know of Chance’s disappearance, if I had the say, here is what I would do/redo.

Engage Adventures with Purpose to sonar Terry Lake. They are miracle workers, despite various controversies.

Engage FBI poly experts to poly/re-poly those who saw Chance shortly before he vanished.

From there, I believe there would be greater clarity. If forced to choose one theory, I would say there is a high probability he is in Terry Lake.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
I'm local to the state and have followed this case since the beginning. Local news today is reporting a male deceased found on the sidewalk of Terrytown (part of the area). While I know it isn't Chase, it reminded me that he is still missing.
 
JUL 6, 2023
ruralradio.com

Today Marks Four Year Anniversary Since Chance Englebert’s Disappearance

Chance Englebert, Bailey Bewley, Gering, Missing Person, Lets Find Chance, Gering Police, Missing Man
ruralradio.com ruralradio.com
Investigator Brian Eads of the Gering Police Department tells KNEB News the case remains active, but in the past 12 months there have only been a few leads that resulted in dead ends.

In December, Englebert’s grandmother added $200,000 to the reward to help move the investigation forward.

panhandle.newschannelnebraska.com

Englebert has been missing for four years

Chance Englebert has been missing for four years now.
panhandle.newschannelnebraska.com panhandle.newschannelnebraska.com
For the unfortunate anniversary, Englebert's family said they will be doing a memorial for him Sept. 30 with a memorial derby.
 
bykerladi said:
I love how the "wife" is silent....
Click to expand...
I feel terrible for the wife. She should remain silent as far as the public goes, and continue to cooperate with LE. This obviously was a marriage in trouble by two young adults, with a child, who made poor decisions. Chance walked off on foot, on his own accord, angry, was seen on surveillance video walking. To blame the wife of foul play is crazy to me. What evidence? I’m glad the wife was brave enough to tell her side of the story to respected and fair podcast host Marissa Jones of The Vanished podcast. Otherwise I might have believed all the accusations by Chance’s family & friends. imo
 
K9Enzo said:
I feel terrible for the wife. She should remain silent as far as the public goes, and continue to cooperate with LE. This obviously was a marriage in trouble by two young adults, with a child, who made poor decisions. Chance walked off on foot, on his own accord, angry, was seen on surveillance video walking. To blame the wife of foul play is crazy to me. What evidence? I’m glad the wife was brave enough to tell her side of the story to respected and fair podcast host Marissa Jones of The Vanished podcast. Otherwise I might have believed all the accusations by Chance’s family & friends. imo
Click to expand...
It is understandable that she would be the subject of some suspicion. A spouse or SO is always under an umbrella of suspicion in a disappearance. And that would certainly apply here since there had apparently been an argument between him and her family. I'll have to go back and listen to that podcast, it has been quite a while. I don't recall that that argument or disagreement was ever fully explained, at least not publicly. So I think that can explain the lingering suspicion of the spouse. But I agree that there is no evidence against her as far as I know. The young man just disappeared. It is very sad.
 
Does anyone know what the outcome of testing on the arm bone found was?
Was Terry Lake ever searched?

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
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