Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

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iiiii's said:
The one where they are blacked out? How do you know it was made at Kendall. It was released in about April 2015 wasn't it? Or do you mean her walk through video up at Kendall a few days after WT went missing? I have only ever seen a tiny piece of that interview which was published publicly. Have you seen a longer video of the walk through?
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Yes, face was blurred out and at Kendall. Foster father (also face blurred) was recorded there, too.

I don't have links to those at hand.
 
iiiii's said:
This scenario needs to be investigated to the depths that it can go. IMO
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Personally, I think it has been. By the police in the Big Dig, by segments of the public over and over and over again. Still no charges relating to William.

What I think is happening now is that the unrelated charges will play out (the pressure from them has brought forth nothing), the Coroner will finalise the inquest with an open verdict, and rumours will swirl for years until they slowly ebb away, until the next big mystery takes their place.

I completely get that some mothers (and fathers) do horrendous things to their children. Having been on WS for years, I have seen my toll of these cases. But proof is the underlying thing that is needed, along with clear Means, Motive and Opportunity. None of those things seem evident here.
 
SouthAussie said:
Personally, I think it has been. By the police in the Big Dig, by segments of the public over and over and over again. Still no charges relating to William.

What I think is happening now is that the unrelated charges will play out (the pressure from them has brought forth nothing), the Coroner will finalise the inquest with an open verdict, and rumours will swirl for years until they slowly ebb away, until the next big mystery takes their place.

I completely get that some mothers (and fathers) do horrendous things to their children. Having been on WS for years, I have seen my toll of these cases. But proof is the underlying thing that is needed, along with clear Means, Motive and Opportunity. None of those things seem evident here.
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Would you be able, please SA, to explain in more detailed reasons ... why you have decided:

"with clear Means, Motive and Opportunity. None of those things seem evident here"
(Extracted from the above post and BBM)
 
JBowie said:
I guess Bill Spedding could talk about persecution.

Yep, let the police make a case that the DPP will take to trial, though I strongly doubt that will happen with only circumstantial evidence.

Meanwhile my bulldust detector remains troubled by her. Frankly, had I not heard those recordings, I think I'd be more inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. I can't escape the gut feeling that her account of the events that morning are not 100% true.

As I've said before, as this investigation drags on and on seemingly going nowhere, I feel that, like the Beaumont Children, the mystery of the disappearance of little William Tyrrell will never be solved.
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There isn’t even any circumstantial evidence. Being present at the home when he went missing in isn’t evidence. That could apply to anyone present in the street at the time. Perceived discrepancies in her story is not evidence.
 
LolaAngelina said:
There isn’t even any circumstantial evidence. Being present at the home when he went missing in isn’t evidence. That could apply to anyone present in the street at the time. Perceived discrepancies in her story is not evidence.
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I would think that the combined statements of both FP's, the FGM's and the neighbours statements are circumstantial evidence that it appears that when the FM 1st noticed WT being quiet and going out of sight of her mother and other foster child and was not seen for a considerable amount of time exactly when WT went missing. Her own uncorroborated statement is that she searched all over the property, inside and out, left the house and street in her mother's car. And no one else saw her do those things, according to their statements. They didn't even know til some time after herself, that WT was missing. Are those not the circumstances according to sworn statements? MOO
 
iiiii's said:
I would think that the combined statements of both FP's, the FGM's and the neighbours statements are circumstantial evidence that it appears that when the FM 1st noticed WT being quiet and going out of sight of her mother and other foster child and was not seen for a considerable amount of time exactly when WT went missing. Her own uncorroborated statement is that she searched all over the property, inside and out, left the house and street in her mother's car. And no one else saw her do those things, according to their statements. They didn't even know til some time after herself, that WT was missing. Are those not the circumstances according to sworn statements? MOO
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That’s not evidence it’s just discrepancies in the opinion of some people. If the police came out and said we don’t believe what they are saying then that would possibly be circumstantial evidence
 
LolaAngelina said:
That’s not evidence it’s just discrepancies in the opinion of some people. If the police came out and said we don’t believe what they are saying then that would possibly be circumstantial evidence
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But the police have said that IMO. And the discrepancies are supposed to be factual accounts not opinions, according to the person giving the account.


Circumstantial evidence.


In relying upon circumstantial evidence, the Crown asks you to find certain basic facts and then from those facts to draw a conclusion as to the existence of a further fact(s).

Circumstantial evidence can be contrasted with direct evidence. Direct evidence is what a witness says that he or she saw or heard or did.

According to my above quote I am actually talking about direct evidence in this case
 
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iiiii's said:
But the police have said that IMO. And the discrepancies are supposed to be factual accounts not opinions, according to the person giving the account.
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The police were looking at three 'inconsistencies': as per the DT and other articles.

- William was barefoot in his photos and he had his shoes on when he disappeared .. which is no surprise because he is said by the police to have disappeared between 10:05 and 10:15 am, photos taken about 30-40 mins prior.

- They could not verify the two cars on the street that FM saw ... no surprise, seems a lot of neighbours didn't see various cars that morning, even though we know other cars travelled on the street.

- The time of the photos ... which the DT said, on 18 Nov 2021, "the timer on the camera was off by about two hours and it is understood that further investigations have confirmed that." Which is probably the 4th time we have heard that, from various sources.

She was found Not Guilty of lying to the NSWCC, about an unrelated matter.

I can't recall any other factual inconsistencies that concerned the police?


ETA link:
 
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SouthAussie said:
The police were looking at three 'inconsistencies': as per the DT and other articles.

- William was barefoot in his photos and he had his shoes on when he disappeared .. which is no surprise because he is said by the police to have disappeared between 10:05 and 10:15 am, photos taken about 30-40 mins prior.

- They could not verify the two cars on the street that FM saw ... no surprise, seems a lot of neighbours didn't see various cars that morning, even though we know other cars travelled on the street.

- The time of the photos ... which the DT said, on 18 Nov 2022, "the timer on the camera was off by about two hours and it is understood that further investigations have confirmed that." Which is probably the 4th time we have heard that, from various sources.

She was found Not Guilty of lying to the NSWCC, about an unrelated matter.

I can't recall any other factual inconsistencies that concerned the police?


ETA link:
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The police had formed the view that the FM knows where WT is, which means they do not believe her account of that morning. I'm sure it is based on things you have mentioned, inconsistencies in statements that do not corroborate her movements and then possibly things we do not know. she was found not to have "deliberately " lied to the NSWCC. IMO
 
iiiii's said:
The police had formed the view that the FM knows where WT is, which means they do not believe her account of that morning. I'm sure it is based on things you have mentioned, inconsistencies in statements that do not corroborate her movements and then possibly things we do not know. she was found not to have "deliberately " lied to the NSWCC. IMO
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Lonergan needs to get off the case. imo
He has been on it since the beginning, or near the beginning. A very long time.

He said that he, personally, formed the opinion that FM knows where William is.

"Yes, I have formed the view (the foster mother) knows where William Tyrrell is” Link

You are correct, FM was found guilty of not deliberately lying to the NSWCC. My apologies.
Partly because the judge could not believe that she would confess to hitting a foster child, at the NSWCC, then deliberately lie about a wooden spoon.
 
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SouthAussie said:
Lonergan needs to get off the case. imo
He has been on it since the beginning, or near the beginning. A very long time.

He said that he, personally, formed the opinion that FM knows where William is.

Yes, I have formed the view (the foster mother) knows where William Tyrrell is” Link
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Possibly he should move on however he had the compliance of the strikeforce which I think would have certain protocols to proceed, besides his say so, to justify the actions that they took. At the time of the FFC's trial for deliberately lying, I noticed that he used the phrase, "have formed the view". It was still in the present tense at the time of her trial, that was still his view. MOO
 
SouthAussie said:
The police were looking at three 'inconsistencies': as per the DT and other articles.

- William was barefoot in his photos and he had his shoes on when he disappeared .. which is no surprise because he is said by the police to have disappeared between 10:05 and 10:15 am, photos taken about 30-40 mins prior.

- They could not verify the two cars on the street that FM saw ... no surprise, seems a lot of neighbours didn't see various cars that morning, even though we know other cars travelled on the street.

- The time of the photos ... which the DT said, on 18 Nov 2022, "the timer on the camera was off by about two hours and it is understood that further investigations have confirmed that." Which is probably the 4th time we have heard that, from various sources.

She was found Not Guilty of lying to the NSWCC, about an unrelated matter.

I can't recall any other factual inconsistencies that concerned the police?


ETA link:
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IIRC she was found not guilty of deliberately lying, not that she didn't do it
 
SouthAussie said:
Lonergan needs to get off the case. imo
He has been on it since the beginning, or near the beginning. A very long time.

He said that he, personally, formed the opinion that FM knows where William is.

"Yes, I have formed the view (the foster mother) knows where William Tyrrell is” Link

You are correct, FM was found guilty of not deliberately lying to the NSWCC. My apologies.
Partly because the judge could not believe that she would confess to hitting a foster child, at the NSWCC, then deliberately lie about a wooden spoon.
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I thought the judge's reasoning was that she could not ignore the doubt caused by the FFC confessing readily to the commission the same or what might be considered worse treatment. IIRC.
 
iiiii's said:
Possibly he should move on however he had the compliance of the strikeforce which I think would have certain protocols to proceed, besides his say so, to justify the actions that they took. At the time of the FFC's trial for deliberately lying, I noticed that he used the phrase, "have formed the view". It was still in the present tense at the time of her trial, that was still his view. MOO
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I think Lonergan had the compliance of the Coroner, who wants to investigate every possible scenario (rightfully so).


"We are operating under a Coronial order that set some tasks and set search areas."
www.manningrivertimes.com.au

Search for William Tyrrell to stretch beyond three weeks

"In terms of the search areas, they were meticulously planned operationally."
www.manningrivertimes.com.au www.manningrivertimes.com.au
(Took me ages to find that link. All the relevant publications are getting pushed further and further away, timewise.)
 
iiiii's said:
I thought the judge's reasoning was that she could not ignore the doubt caused by the FFC confessing readily to the commission the same or what might be considered worse treatment. IIRC.
Click to expand...

I think that is what I said ... only in different wording? Same, same.
 
iiiii's said:
But the police have said that IMO. And the discrepancies are supposed to be factual accounts not opinions, according to the person giving the account.


Circumstantial evidence.


In relying upon circumstantial evidence, the Crown asks you to find certain basic facts and then from those facts to draw a conclusion as to the existence of a further fact(s).

Circumstantial evidence can be contrasted with direct evidence. Direct evidence is what a witness says that he or she saw or heard or did.

According to my above quote I am actually talking about direct evidence in this case
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Please provide a link to the quote from the strike force saying fm’s statement is inconsistent and they don’t believe her.
 
SouthAussie said:
I think Lonergan had the compliance of the Coroner, who wants to investigate every possible scenario (rightfully so).


"We are operating under a Coronial order that set some tasks and set search areas."
www.manningrivertimes.com.au

Search for William Tyrrell to stretch beyond three weeks

"In terms of the search areas, they were meticulously planned operationally."
www.manningrivertimes.com.au www.manningrivertimes.com.au
(Took me ages to find that link. All the relevant publications are getting pushed further and further away, timewise.)
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I cannot give you the timing of it now, but I thought that many months before the dig, the coroner was just waiting on something from the police so that she could make her findings and was somewhat frustrated by further information that police gave her. Yes these searches are under the order of the coroner, but propelled by police IMO. The police may have even requested further searches that the coroner could not justify possibly. IMO
 
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