TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, murdered, Scurry County, Dec 2010 *Arrest in 2021, released in 2023* #4

Yes, I know what was said in court.

We do not know for a fact Hailey was alive when Shawn got home at 3, this has never been proven or stated by police. The last reliable person to speak with her was her aunt. We have a timeline from Sunday evening to Tuesday afternoon. For me that means that anyone who was around her during that timeline had the ability to commit this crime.

To say Shawn is innocent means you have to trust what he is saying, not actual evidence proving he is actually innocent. He himself said for LE to look at him and Billie and that she could be found in Scurry county according to the affidavits, and that is exactly where she was found.

His claim that she left the house at 3 means absolutely nothing. They have the phone call close to 3, that is the only other witness that can tell them if she was alive or not at that time, and unfortunately we do not know the answer to this.
Police won't say anything about evidence they have, it is not their place to comment on that, so them not saying anything does not mean the evidence does not exist. Their job is to collect evidence and give it to the prosecutor, not to keep the public up to date with what is known. In any event, multiple people reported seeing her and there is no reason to doubt them. Their eyewitness accounts not being consistent with a particular theory does not make them unreliable. And in at least one case (the guy seeing her in the back yard with the phone) that would have been corroborated by phone records and consequently would be beyond question if true.

The prosecutor said in court that the window of opportunity was after 3PM, and he would not have said that if it was not verified and factual. So, while he did not explicitly say exactly why that time we can conclude that there is solid evidence that she alive at that point.

You also need to remember that we only know about evidence that witnesses have gone public with, there will be a lot more witnesses who did NOT go public and all that information would be known to both the prosecutor and defense. Most people who witness things do not go to the press about it, so we never find out about them until such time as there is a trial.
 
Police won't say anything about evidence they have, it is not their place to comment on that, so them not saying anything does not mean the evidence does not exist. Their job is to collect evidence and give it to the prosecutor, not to keep the public up to date with what is known. In any event, multiple people reported seeing her and there is no reason to doubt them. Their eyewitness accounts not being consistent with a particular theory does not make them unreliable. And in at least one case (the guy seeing her in the back yard with the phone) that would have been corroborated by phone records and consequently would be beyond question if true.

The prosecutor said in court that the window of opportunity was after 3PM, and he would not have said that if it was not verified and factual. So, while he did not explicitly say exactly why that time we can conclude that there is solid evidence that she alive at that point.

You also need to remember that we only know about evidence that witnesses have gone public with, there will be a lot more witnesses who did NOT go public and all that information would be known to both the prosecutor and defense. Most people who witness things do not go to the press about it, so we never find out about them until such time as there is a
Of course we do not have all statements but we do have them saying he is still a suspect and we do not know if she was really alive after 3...

Read it again, it clearly says might've....meaning it wasn't proven for sure.

 
Of course we do not have all statements but we do have them saying he is still a suspect and we do not know if she was really alive after 3...

Read it again, it clearly says might've....meaning it wasn't proven for sure.

At what point to we include a possible other suspect ?
This random crappy Texas boyfriend committed the evidence-less last minute impulsive murder, outsmarted all off the investigators and the FBI to the point where they and locked into a timeline even though time of crime does not have to be proven?
I bet the files on her case are 20 binders deep so the very little we know probably looks very different from the scene inside whichever eyes have laid grace to them.
 
At what point to we include a possible other suspect ?
This random crappy Texas boyfriend committed the evidence-less last minute impulsive murder, outsmarted all off the investigators and the FBI to the point where they and locked into a timeline even though time of crime does not have to be proven?
I bet the files on her case are 20 binders deep so the very little we know probably looks very different from the scene inside whichever eyes have laid grace to them.
I would say whenever Shawn explains how he knew where her body was and who told him.
 
I think people have been trying to make this much more complicated than it really is, which is just a runaway case that had a tragic ending. We may be looking for a villain that does not exist (well, maybe there is one in Odessa).
RSBM-
Do you really believe what you wrote?

By "people" do you mean - The FBI, Texas Rangers, Texas Department of Public Safety, Texas Department of Criminal Justice, two different DA Offices and six other local law enforcement agencies. Silly professionals, they spent thirteen unnecessary years investigating this case :rolleyes:

The only reason Adkins isn't sitting in prison today, is because he did a good job cleaning up the crime scene, was reasonably smart about constructing an alibi, hid her body well, and local LE helped him by flubbing the dub many times over.

Hailey didn't run away, ske was murdered!!
 
I would say whenever Shawn explains how he knew where her body was and who told him.
Please post the statement if you know what it was and how to locate it. I know one was made but verbiage is everything sometimes.
I think people have been trying to make this much more complicated than it really is, which is just a runaway case that had a tragic ending. We may be looking for a villain that does not exist (well, maybe there is one in Odessa).
I do not believe that she is a unfortunate run away.
I think it is complex and she was lured away by someone she knew.
I think all the known elements to solve the crime were there at some time but the emotional maturity of CCITY's staff plays a bigger role in this case being unsolved than it should have ever been allowed .
If SA does have some answers ,I hope he finds a way to share or rely whatever information he has ,we know it is something..that is clear . That development of information has been restricted because the City management acted very unprofessional within the very first few minutes of this case being reported (ON public accessible platforms. )
I heard the live talk after they forgot to cut cameras off after a PC , I heard who those people are and how they felt about HD'S family ,life and future. Hailey Dunn deserved better than all the gossip and hinderance her home town community leaders did by her.

Pride of Texas, they are.
 
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What if that whole other ignored timeline( that was really looking like an investigative path to follow but was not- because LE personals could not corroborate with their selves or their own idea's of the facts? idk, I'm asking)

The shifty one supported by people reporting to the media but shaded buy the investigation ,that got us to right here ,where we are today?

This case is solvable. I do not know if SA is involved but I dont know if the Mail man is either. What I know is a witness saw her on the phone in the yard a time that cannot be disproven ,Not even electronically ,no matter how much we call that witness unreliable ,the data supports it in a way that they just released this whole gore horror fan out of jail ,who they believe murdered a child?
At this point there is no denying this case was mishandled. This is our justice system. Not a game.
 
Please post the statement if you know what it was and how to locate it. I know one was made but verbiage is everything sometimes.

I do not believe that she is a unfortunate run away.
I think it is complex and she was lured away by someone she knew.
I think all the known elements to solve the crime were there at some time but the emotional maturity of CCITY's staff plays a bigger role in this case being unsolved than it should have ever been allowed .
If SA does have some answers ,I hope he finds a way to share or rely whatever information he has ,we know it is something..that is clear . That development of information has been restricted because the City management acted very unprofessional within the very first few minutes of this case being reported (ON public accessible platforms. )
I heard the live talk after they forgot to cut cameras off after a PC , I heard who those people are and how they felt about HD'S family ,life and future. Hailey Dunn deserved better than all the gossip and hinderance her home town community leaders did by her.

Pride of Texas, they are.
 
RSBM-
Do you really believe what you wrote?

By "people" do you mean - The FBI, Texas Rangers, Texas Department of Public Safety, Texas Department of Criminal Justice, two different DA Offices and six other local law enforcement agencies. Silly professionals, they spent thirteen unnecessary years investigating this case :rolleyes:

The only reason Adkins isn't sitting in prison today, is because he did a good job cleaning up the crime scene, was reasonably smart about constructing an alibi, hid her body well, and local LE helped him by flubbing the dub many times over.

Hailey didn't run away, ske was murdered!!
The case was investigated by the Mitchel county sheriff. The other agencies were providing support.

There was not enough time for him to have reasonably have done it. Between 3 PM and 5 PM he would have had to drive from BS to CC, killed her, driven to the lake, dragged the body off into the bush, hidden it, returned to the vehicle, driven back to CC, cleaned the scene (it was searched and no evidence of foul play), cleaned the car (it was searched and no evidence of foul play). It is just very unlikely for SA to have done all of that in 2 hours. There is no motive and the evidence they thought they had matching dirt on his boots to the lake site turned out not to match. There is no case. A very short window of opportunity in which a lot had to happen, the lack of motive and complete lack of evidence for any of it makes any case a non starter.

I still think HD ran away, she was supposed to be hidden by friends of people she knew, and she died there some time after she disappeared, and not that day at all. It could have been weeks, even months, afterwards for all we know. If you take SA out of the picture then the window of opportunity for someone becomes very large, probably from about 3.30 PM that day onwards, with no upper limit. If you use THAT scenario then you have an open ended window of opportunity and an actual motive, just not a specific suspect. Although in reality many people involved probably either know or have a pretty good idea of what happened, they just are not saying so publicly, no doubt because they themselves could go to jail as a result of everything that eventually happened.

If you go back in this case with all of the weird and odd behaviors of so many people involved, and keeping in mind the unreasonableness of the accusations against SA, I think dissent with the custody arrangement in BD's household followed by a runaway and subsequent accident or homicide is the most probable explanation. I find it really hard to believe that some of these people did not know what was going on. Maybe HD did this on her own, maybe she had some assistance from friends, maybe from family members. I think this is basically a runaway case that got out of control when the case blew up on national media and someone essentially needed to make her disappear as a result, something that was NOT the initial plan, it was just a consequence of events spiraling out of control.
 
The case was investigated by the Mitchel county sheriff. The other agencies were providing support.

There was not enough time for him to have reasonably have done it. Between 3 PM and 5 PM he would have had to drive from BS to CC, killed her, driven to the lake, dragged the body off into the bush, hidden it, returned to the vehicle, driven back to CC,

There is no reason to believe her body had to have been taken to the lake immediately. She could have been stashed somewhere closer and taken to the lake later on.
cleaned the scene (it was searched and no evidence of foul play), cleaned the car (it was searched and no evidence of foul play). It is just very unlikely for SA to have done all of that in 2 hours. There is no motive

There are age old motives---SA proudly lived out his motives for others to see, with his serial killer masks and his gore/horror music and love of gory films.

How about the tried and true 'motive' seen often, when Mom's live-in boyfriend gets interested in her sweet 13 yr old daughter?
and the evidence they thought they had matching dirt on his boots to the lake site turned out not to match. There is no case. A very short window of opportunity in which a lot had to happen, the lack of motive and complete lack of evidence for any of it makes any case a non starter.

I still think HD ran away,

What evidence was there that she actually ran away?
she was supposed to be hidden by friends of people she knew, and she died there some time after she disappeared, and not that day at all. It could have been weeks, even months, afterwards for all we know.

If she had been still alive and around for weeks or months, there would have been sightings. Kids aren't that smart or capable of keeping quiet.
If you take SA out of the picture then the window of opportunity for someone becomes very large, probably from about 3.30 PM that day onwards, with no upper limit. If you use THAT scenario then you have an open ended window of opportunity and an actual motive, just not a specific suspect. Although in reality many people involved probably either know or have a pretty good idea of what happened, they just are not saying so publicly, no doubt because they themselves could go to jail as a result of everything that eventually happened.

If you go back in this case with all of the weird and odd behaviors of so many people involved,

Weird odd behaviour---like driving to work, that day, only to suddenly quit your good paying job, when you really need the money and the job?
and keeping in mind the unreasonableness of the accusations against SA,

The accusations against SA were unreasonable?
I think dissent with the custody arrangement in BD's household

Who would have killed her over a custody arrangement?
ollowed by a runaway and subsequent accident or homicide is the most probable explanation. I find it really hard to believe that some of these people did not know what was going on. Maybe HD did this on her own, maybe she had some assistance from friends, maybe from family members. I think this is basically a runaway case that got out of control when the case blew up on national media and someone essentially needed to make her disappear as a result, something that was NOT the initial plan, it was just a consequence of events spiraling out of control.
As to the bolded above---it does not sound plausible to me.
 
Big Country
"On the Hope for Hailey Dunn Facebook page, Billie said, “prosecutors are going to ask the judge to dismiss the case, against Shawn, in my daughter’s murder. No trial in Sept… The case will be given to a cold case division &we will go through all of this again.”
This is shocking to me. Any chance S is not guilty. I am yrs behind on this case and trying to catch up. Do we have any other suspect????
 
Well, obviously there is evidence that she was alive that day. The reported sighting(s)/text messages discussed over the years must be correct, which then only leaves the window of time between when SA arrived home from Big Spring and when the brother arrived home, which is a very narrow period of time. SA's whereabouts are accounted for the rest of the time.

The time frame they are referring to is the last known ping of his cell phone at Big Spring until the time the brother showed up at the house, which is about 2 hours. But the time is actually a lot less than that since he had to drive from Big Spring back home, and that would have taken up a good deal of those 2 hours. After the brother arrived back at the house SA is pretty much accounted for. So the window to have actually done something is very small and there is no evidence to suggest that SA did anything. What is a prosecutor supposed to do in that situation? They don't have a case based on the evidence and consequently they have to drop the charges. They can't just make stuff up or proceed with a case in the hope of making some emotional appeal to a jury with no evidence. That is irresponsible.

In other words it is unlikely that he is the killer since there would have only had a very short period of time to kill her, clean up and dispose of the body, and that is not realistic with the scenario many here favor, as I have been pointing out since this case began. The killer is probably someone else, and that someone is most likely someone HD knew. This is kind of what I have been saying for years now but you guys refuse to consider it.

That is why the charges were dismissed. They basically have no evidence that SA was involved in her death other than wishful thinking. They can keep on saying that of course, no one likes admitting they were wrong, especially in this sort of situation, but the bottom line is they have no evidence and they have to do their job.

I think the problem is that people got (and still are) fixated on SA because he fits what they think is a deviant and hence the likely killer, when the known facts of the case simply don't mesh with that. Someone being a deviant does not make them a killer. There is of course a real killer out there, and THAT person will likely go free because of this tunnel view people on this case have had.
I seem to remember other suspects. was everyone else cleared? it seems like I remember a lot of questionable people in Hailey's life. Am I remembering right???? Everyone kept lying and I got confused and put this case aside out of frustration.
 
Forever2thee-LE still says SA is the one and only prime suspect. We don't have all the evidence LE does so I will trust their judgement for now.
Apparently the soil samples they tested were not tested correctly and there was a problem with the results, so they dismissed the case with the option of retrying him at a later date. Best to retest evidence, go over everything again and get their ducks in a row for a conviction than to go with problematic results and lose the case to never be able to retry the case. Probably good call even tho MOST on this website feel he is the one responsible for Hailey's death.
 
There is no reason to believe her body had to have been taken to the lake immediately. She could have been stashed somewhere closer and taken to the lake later on.


There are age old motives---SA proudly lived out his motives for others to see, with his serial killer masks and his gore/horror music and love of gory films.

How about the tried and true 'motive' seen often, when Mom's live-in boyfriend gets interested in her sweet 13 yr old daughter?


What evidence was there that she actually ran away?


If she had been still alive and around for weeks or months, there would have been sightings. Kids aren't that smart or capable of keeping quiet.


Weird odd behaviour---like driving to work, that day, only to suddenly quit your good paying job, when you really need the money and the job?


The accusations against SA were unreasonable?


Who would have killed her over a custody arrangement?

As to the bolded above---it does not sound plausible to me.

Stashing somewhere intermediate could have happened but keep in mind that the S hit the fan the next day so it is not as though it would have been a simple thing to do. Where would such a place be? In any event, the time frame is still narrow even if such a thing did happen, and there is no evidence of any crime being committed in the house, or the car (the only one at his disposal) being used to move a body.

Having a passing interest in horror movies or true crime is not a motive, at least I hope not, otherwise I shudder to think what everyone here is getting up to in their spare time :)

There is no evidence of SA being interested in HD, other than the grandmothers claims that HD was uncomfortable around him. That does not mean some kind of sexual interest however, most teenage girls are uncomfortable when their mom's new boyfriend moves in.

There is no evidence that she ran away, but that was how the case was treated initially. There was no evidence of foul play, suspicions of foul play only emerged after she could not be found at the places where she might be expected to run away to.

There is no requirement for her to be alive weeks or months later, she most likely died or was killed when the story blew up on the news, since anyone involved at that point would have had a vested interest in making her disappear permanently since at that point someone was probably going to jail for a long time.

Quitting his job was not weird. If SA is to be believed, he had some sort of disagreement with his boss sometime prior to the christmas break (exactly when is not clear), so quitting on the first work day after would be not unusual or unexpected, especially for an immature guy basically being supported by someone else anyway. He was not upfront about it, claiming he was fired instead of quitting, because BD would most likely have gone ballistic if he told her he quit. So he told her something else instead.

The accusations against SA are unreasonable because there is literally no evidence that he did anything to HD or had any motive to do anything to her. The accusations leveled generally require that there be some sort of sinister convoluted plot to get rid of HD in the absence of any evidence to support that.

Usually the simplest explanation is the most obvious, namely that SA quit his job (or fired) and as a result was going to be at home permanently. HD, who did not like him being around anyway, got into a temper when she found out and left, going somewhere else. Then, whatever happened to her followed from that. SA would not have done that. He wanted a cushy life, not having to do work while an older woman supported him. Killing HD would guarantee that would not happen, so why would he? IMO SA quitting his job DID trigger subsequent events and set everything that followed in motion, but that does not mean he killed her or is to blame for what happened to her.

We know she disappeared after SA got back early from Big Spring, presumably he told HD that he was now unemployed, and this left HD POed since she did not want be around him all day. She left to "overnight with a friend" without warning, and at first BD did nothing about it, but the next day, after arriving at work and stewing on it for some time, suddenly called DD and told him to go get HD and make her come home. That is when all the public drama started, but domestically it probably had been going on in the home for a while. We don't know for sure, but HD and BD's actions suggest that there was a major discipline issue going on with HD. Some of this is from SA's account, you probably will take that with a pinch of salt, but BD's behavior over the period suggests that what happened was likely that since she did not question SA's account, she just accepted it and the only explanation for that is this is what she expected with HD's behavior at the time. It was not something just out of the blue, it was a behavior BD expected based on past experience.

People would not have killed over a custody dispute, but someone might get killed as a consequence of it. Let's face it, there was absolutely zero chance CD would have gotten custody of HD. He had a criminal record, was on probation IIRC, had a history with drugs, did not appear to have a permanent full time job as far as I can tell and lived with his girlfriend who was apparently on welfare. BD on the other hand had a decently paying stable job, had her own house and had no criminal record. There is no way custody of HD would have been removed from BD and given to CD under those circumstances. HD was staying where she was unless she relocated herself on her own initiative or got help from family or friends. This does not mean CD had anything to do with it, there are quite a few other family members or friends who might have taken it upon themselves to intervene in this way. And HD herself could have done it, she was not subject to much parental control and who knows what sort of people she may have been acquainted with.

In either case she would not have been able to go to the obvious places because the police would just have gone there and returned her home. So, to be effective she would have to be relocated to a third person or place without any obvious connection to immediate friends or family. And THAT, I believe, is where the problem began. She ended up be stashed with people who were pretty shady, the story blew up and when it did, the potential for serious jail time loomed, so they just got rid of her, took off themselves and acted like nothing happened. Maybe they killed her, maybe they pawned her off to someone else who eventually did it. She just sort of vanished and everyone involved denied knowing anything. And after she was dead/disappeared, the ones who helped her do this could not say anything otherwise THEY would be doing that jail time too, maybe even a trip to the gas chamber. So everyone shut up and was more than happy to let SA take the blame. After all, in their minds the events were kind of his fault anyway by quitting his job and starting everything.

And that is where we are now. I don't think SA had anything to do with, nor BD. The others, I am not so sure. It is entirely possible that all of them have the gist of it by now, even if not involved, but for various reasons have an incentive to keep their thoughts on that subject to themselves. Will WE ever know the truth? At this point I am kind of doubtful about that. Too much time has passed and the water muddied too much. We will have theories, speculations, but not much more.
 
Forever2thee-LE still says SA is the one and only prime suspect. We don't have all the evidence LE does so I will trust their judgement for now.
Apparently the soil samples they tested were not tested correctly and there was a problem with the results, so they dismissed the case with the option of retrying him at a later date. Best to retest evidence, go over everything again and get their ducks in a row for a conviction than to go with problematic results and lose the case to never be able to retry the case. Probably good call even tho MOST on this website feel he is the one responsible for Hailey's death.
Once LE has named you as a suspect they won't un-name you unless they have proof it was not you. The reason for that is that it would have implications later on if they were to change their mind. So SA will just stay in limbo on that front, but they don't have a case against him.
 
Stashing somewhere intermediate could have happened but keep in mind that the S hit the fan the next day so it is not as though it would have been a simple thing to do. Where would such a place be? In any event, the time frame is still narrow even if such a thing did happen, and there is no evidence of any crime being committed in the house, or the car (the only one at his disposal) being used to move a body.

I don't think there was much intense investigation at the very start. There was plenty of time for SA to move things around and clean things up. They put the couch out for pick up ---the same couch that HD slept on ---and no investigators were concerned about that.
Having a passing interest in horror movies or true crime is not a motive, at least I hope not, otherwise I shudder to think what everyone here is getting up to in their spare time :)
There is a big difference. WS members are looking at these cases from point of view of the victims and their families. We are looking for ways to solve crimes and get justice for the families.

SA was looking at horror movies from the point of view AS THE KILLER. He wore the leather serial killer mask when he watched the slasher films because he imagined himself as the murderer, and he enjoyed that violent aspect of it.
There is no evidence of SA being interested in HD, other than the grandmothers claims that HD was uncomfortable around him. That does not mean some kind of sexual interest however, most teenage girls are uncomfortable when their mom's new boyfriend moves in.
There were indications that he was inappropriate towards HD. She described him lurking outside her bedroom door at night, and she could see his feet through the crack of her closed door in the middle of the night.

This boyfriend was not a very upstanding, decent young man. He was a creepy drug using, loser who liked p__orn. HD had reason to feel uncomfortable around him.
There is no evidence that she ran away, but that was how the case was treated initially. There was no evidence of foul play, suspicions of foul play only emerged after she could not be found at the places where she might be expected to run away to.

So that^^^ is in conflict with your statement in first paragraph, where you claimed the Schittt hit the fan the very next day, preventing SA from cleaning up or hiding the body. If they were not suspicious of foul play for awhile, looks like he had plenty of time.
There is no requirement for her to be alive weeks or months later, she most likely died or was killed when the story blew up on the news, since anyone involved at that point would have had a vested interest in making her disappear permanently since at that point someone was probably going to jail for a long time.

Quitting his job was not weird. If SA is to be believed, he had some sort of disagreement with his boss sometime prior to the christmas break (exactly when is not clear), so quitting on the first work day after would be not unusual or unexpected, especially for an immature guy basically being supported by someone else anyway. He was not upfront about it, claiming he was fired instead of quitting, because BD would most likely have gone ballistic if he told her he quit. So he told her something else instead.

It is not weird that he quit his job on the very morning that HD came up missing? To me, it is very weird and makes him look guilty.
The accusations against SA are unreasonable because there is literally no evidence that he did anything to HD or had any motive to do anything to her.
He was literally the last person to see her that day. And he did have motive---one of the oldest and most primal motives for murder that we see here on WS all of the time.


The accusations leveled generally require that there be some sort of sinister convoluted plot to get rid of HD in the absence of any evidence to support that.

Usually the simplest explanation is the most obvious, namely that SA quit his job (or fired) and as a result was going to be at home permanently. HD, who did not like him being around anyway, got into a temper when she found out and left, going somewhere else. Then, whatever happened to her followed from that. SA would not have done that. He wanted a cushy life, not having to do work while an older woman supported him. Killing HD would guarantee that would not happen, so why would he? IMO SA quitting his job DID trigger subsequent events and set everything that followed in motion, but that does not mean he killed her or is to blame for what happened to her.

We know she disappeared after SA got back early from Big Spring, presumably he told HD that he was now unemployed, and this left HD POed since she did not want be around him all day. She left to "overnight with a friend" without warning, and at first BD did nothing about it, but the next day, after arriving at work and stewing on it for some time, suddenly called DD and told him to go get HD and make her come home. That is when all the public drama started, but domestically it probably had been going on in the home for a while. We don't know for sure, but HD and BD's actions suggest that there was a major discipline issue going on with HD. Some of this is from SA's account, you probably will take that with a pinch of salt, but BD's behavior over the period suggests that what happened was likely that since she did not question SA's account, she just accepted it and the only explanation for that is this is what she expected with HD's behavior at the time. It was not something just out of the blue, it was a behavior BD expected based on past experience.

People would not have killed over a custody dispute, but someone might get killed as a consequence of it. Let's face it, there was absolutely zero chance CD would have gotten custody of HD. He had a criminal record, was on probation IIRC, had a history with drugs, did not appear to have a permanent full time job as far as I can tell and lived with his girlfriend who was apparently on welfare. BD on the other hand had a decently paying stable job, had her own house and had no criminal record. There is no way custody of HD would have been removed from BD and given to CD under those circumstances. HD was staying where she was unless she relocated herself on her own initiative or got help from family or friends. This does not mean CD had anything to do with it, there are quite a few other family members or friends who might have taken it upon themselves to intervene in this way. And HD herself could have done it, she was not subject to much parental control and who knows what sort of people she may have been acquainted with.

In either case she would not have been able to go to the obvious places because the police would just have gone there and returned her home. So, to be effective she would have to be relocated to a third person or place without any obvious connection to immediate friends or family. And THAT, I believe, is where the problem began. She ended up be stashed with people who were pretty shady, the story blew up and when it did, the potential for serious jail time loomed, so they just got rid of her, took off themselves and acted like nothing happened. Maybe they killed her, maybe they pawned her off to someone else who eventually did it. She just sort of vanished and everyone involved denied knowing anything. And after she was dead/disappeared, the ones who helped her do this could not say anything otherwise THEY would be doing that jail time too, maybe even a trip to the gas chamber. So everyone shut up and was more than happy to let SA take the blame. After all, in their minds the events were kind of his fault anyway by quitting his job and starting everything.

And that is where we are now. I don't think SA had anything to do with, nor BD. The others, I am not so sure. It is entirely possible that all of them have the gist of it by now, even if not involved, but for various reasons have an incentive to keep their thoughts on that subject to themselves. Will WE ever know the truth? At this point I am kind of doubtful about that. Too much time has passed and the water muddied too much. We will have theories, speculations, but not much more.
I don't think a custody dispute had anything to do with her murder at all.
 
I don't think there was much intense investigation at the very start. There was plenty of time for SA to move things around and clean things up. They put the couch out for pick up ---the same couch that HD slept on ---and no investigators were concerned about that.

There is a big difference. WS members are looking at these cases from point of view of the victims and their families. We are looking for ways to solve crimes and get justice for the families.

SA was looking at horror movies from the point of view AS THE KILLER. He wore the leather serial killer mask when he watched the slasher films because he imagined himself as the murderer, and he enjoyed that violent aspect of it.

There were indications that he was inappropriate towards HD. She described him lurking outside her bedroom door at night, and she could see his feet through the crack of her closed door in the middle of the night.

This boyfriend was not a very upstanding, decent young man. He was a creepy drug using, loser who liked p__orn. HD had reason to feel uncomfortable around him.


So that^^^ is in conflict with your statement in first paragraph, where you claimed the Schittt hit the fan the very next day, preventing SA from cleaning up or hiding the body. If they were not suspicious of foul play for awhile, looks like he had plenty of time.


It is not weird that he quit his job on the very morning that HD came up missing? To me, it is very weird and makes him look guilty.

He was literally the last person to see her that day. And he did have motive---one of the oldest and most primal motives for murder that we see here on WS all of the time.



I don't think a custody dispute had anything to do with her murder at all.
There may not have been a lot of investigation but there was investigation and people were paying attention. The only other opportunity to have done something like that would be the morning following HD's disappearance, before anyone knew she was gone. On that day he drove BD to work and presumably did not return home, since DD was there, and if he did DD would be able to account for him until the time the drama began. We don't know too much about where SA was at that time, however, for your hypothesis to be true we would have to believe that he deposited the body somewhere in town, then casually did nothing the rest of the evening and next morning, without behaving in a manner that would get BD suspicious. That just seems pretty improbable to me. And where would he leave the body? It was not at the house and it was not in the car, so where? If you are going to make a case for such a scenario, what would the evidence be? If the body was not in the house then anyone could have discovered it in the interim, and how would it get to the lake, since we know it was not in the car (which was subject to a forensic search specifically for such evidence)? If you are going to propose that as a scenario, then how would it work? Where would he conceal the body? How would he get it to the lake? Plus, while we may not know about his movements that day, other people may well know. And since this has not been suggested by the prosecutor as an alternative to get around their time frame problem, we can assume that they believe that the next day is accounted for.

Your distinction about what WS members are or are not doing, and what their motivation is, is moot, the fact remains they are interested in and are possibly researching true crime. People do have an interest in that sort of stuff for all sorts of reasons, it is not an indication of criminality.

Lots of people enjoy the horror genre, it is one of the most popular types there is. There is an endless stream of movies on that theme released for a reason. People go and watch them.

There were no indications of anything inappropriate going on. Going to the washroom at night is not inappropriate. Also, these were second hand accounts from the grandmother only, not HD herself. HD probably did not care for SA being in the house, and teenagers in that sort of situation will misrepresent motives and exaggerate things. Then the grandmother could further exaggerate things on retelling her account. This is why hearsay is not accepted in court. In any case, even with what the grandmother said, she never claimed that SA actually did anything inappropriate, just that HD was suspicious.

No one claimed SA is an upstanding person, he was (and presumably still is) a semi employed unskilled laborer and was being supported by his girlfriend. These sorts of men (and I think there are quite a few of them in this story like that btw) are usually kind of shifty IMO. But that does mean they are killers, just not the sort of people you would rely on. There is no evidence that he was using drugs other than casually, possibly weed or something like that. The only indication of any drug use IIRC is him and BD supposedly buying some weed on the evening HD disappeared (feel free to correct that if there was anything else). As for *advertiser censored*, I am sure he was not someone who particularly liked *advertiser censored*, he simply did not have enough of it for that to be the case. He might have viewed it occasionally, like pretty much most other men in the country do, but that does not mean he especially liked *advertiser censored*. The amount of *advertiser censored* found directly associated with him was actually very little, there were just a few images and videos. And if he was really into it then he would have definitely had at least a computer in the house and some sort of collection. I don't understand why everyone is so fixed on this *advertiser censored* aspect, maybe it is because they don't know very much about *advertiser censored* themselves, but the amount he had is actually very small to the point of being trivial. I would go so far as to say that given that there were two young males in the house and considering how *advertiser censored* is used, the amount of *advertiser censored* actually there was shockingly low. There was a lot of *advertiser censored* in his mother's house, as well as a computer, however he did not live there, it is a 45 minute drive away. But other people did live there, and it was their computer, so I doubt that collection had anything to do with him.

Quitting his job that particular day was not weird at all IMO, if he was planning to do it, it would have been the proper time. And, as I said, I believe him quitting his job is what actually triggered everything that happened later on, due to HD's antipathy towards him.

There is no motive for SA. For there to be a motive there has to be preceeding actions, and as far as we know there were none. A motive has to be based on something real, not speculative such as "well, anything could happen, so that is a motive".

And I disagree with you on the last point. I think custody and SA's presence in the house as it related to that are the core of this case. Because on that we know from the grandmothers interviews that there were preceeding actions that could be constructed into motive. Not to kill HD, but to figure something out so that she could not be in BD's house, with everything else following from that. The question in my mind really is not that so much, but rather who specifically it was if the scenario is correct, on that point I think it is pretty murky. There are candidates in both families, possibly friends as well. I imagine there were quite a few connected people who were not at all happy about SA's presence in the house.

Now that I mention it, it may be constructive to dig up what the grandmother said in all her interviews, there may be some clues in all of that (even if a lot of it is hearsay) that could provide further insight into motives, such as they might be.
 
Once LE has named you as a suspect they won't un-name you unless they have proof it was not you. The reason for that is that it would have implications later on if they were to change their mind. So SA will just stay in limbo on that front, but they don't have a case against him.
I know you read the statement issued when the charges were dropped. You’re grossly misstating the facts. They dismissed without prejudice and sent the case back for further investigation.

We all have opinions about Adkins, but you cannot say they don’t have a case against him. That’s simply not true.
 

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