And they really wouldn't be "dirty". It hadn't been that long. There was blood associated with this crime- but we'll never know if there was evidence of JBR's blood on any of their clothes because THEY WERE NEVER ASKED TO TURN THEM IN WHEN THEY LEFT THE HOUSE- an active crime scene, and by the time they did, is was a YEAR later, and LE said some of the clothes looked new. The likelihood that the Ra sent the actual clothes they wore that night is about 1%.
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Jane Osa
searching for truth & justice....and not having mu
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Well, no BBQ ribs, Superdave - since I'm in Alaska next to the ocean & it's fishing season I had plenty of smoked salmon and fresh (as in caught this afternoon) halibut & lots of happy tourists off the cruise ships & corny songs played live...
I can agree that P. being in her same clothes isn't the height of bizarre weirdness, but, I'd also expect that she'd get herself into some silken nightgown and wrap herself in a cashmere robe in the morning before descending to make coffee & breakfast, etc. - however, if you are very tired & have a plane to catch, etc. maybe not (and who would arrange a flight that early the day after Christmas anyway? Where were they going?). I also agree people's memories are not all that reliable. If the Ramseys testified to begin with instead of waiting four months (as I understand) maybe their brains wouldn't be so foggy. Maybe the reason they didn't cooperate is that they are very selfish - they wanted to protect themselves more than their dead child - that's inconceivable for most of us but inconceivable seems to be an apt word for most of their actions.
So, what about lying about Burke during the 911 call? And the pineapple JBR ate (either their memory is 'faulty', they are lying, or JBR got up roaming the house & ate it or the person who eventually murdered her was someone she was completely comfortable with - enough to 'hang out' and eat pineapple with in the dining room) - ?
I don't recall anyone's opinions on how and why there is DNA of a male on leggings & underwear (skin & blood, right?) if you believe the R.s did it? I'd like to hear a theory on how it is there. I've heard ideas of it being 'old' or 'contaminated' or it could be anyone (!?!) - or a police cover-up and a pedophile party - any other ideas out there? I haven't heard anything solid from someone who believes the R.s guilty - ? I'm curious because, as I've said, I don't have a firm conviction either way...but, you have to admit the DNA 'says' something.
I can agree that P. being in her same clothes isn't the height of bizarre weirdness, but, I'd also expect that she'd get herself into some silken nightgown and wrap herself in a cashmere robe in the morning before descending to make coffee & breakfast, etc. - however, if you are very tired & have a plane to catch, etc. maybe not (and who would arrange a flight that early the day after Christmas anyway? Where were they going?). I also agree people's memories are not all that reliable. If the Ramseys testified to begin with instead of waiting four months (as I understand) maybe their brains wouldn't be so foggy. Maybe the reason they didn't cooperate is that they are very selfish - they wanted to protect themselves more than their dead child - that's inconceivable for most of us but inconceivable seems to be an apt word for most of their actions.
So, what about lying about Burke during the 911 call? And the pineapple JBR ate (either their memory is 'faulty', they are lying, or JBR got up roaming the house & ate it or the person who eventually murdered her was someone she was completely comfortable with - enough to 'hang out' and eat pineapple with in the dining room) - ?
I don't recall anyone's opinions on how and why there is DNA of a male on leggings & underwear (skin & blood, right?) if you believe the R.s did it? I'd like to hear a theory on how it is there. I've heard ideas of it being 'old' or 'contaminated' or it could be anyone (!?!) - or a police cover-up and a pedophile party - any other ideas out there? I haven't heard anything solid from someone who believes the R.s guilty - ? I'm curious because, as I've said, I don't have a firm conviction either way...but, you have to admit the DNA 'says' something.
JMO8778
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it says something is rotten in Boulder,the same way it's been for years (at least in the DA's office).lacy was way off base to clear the R's based solely on that!
JMO8778
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absolutely true.I got them around my eyes when I had morning sickness when pregnant.
LI_Mom
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They were leaving early & heading to their vacation home in Michigan.... IIRC to celebrate Xmas with John's older kids? After the Michigan trip they were scheduled to go on a cruise.. I don't recall if they were going back to Boulder or going straight to the cruise from Mich.
I bring that up because Patsy was NOT happy about having to go to Michigan.... she barely had time to relax between the kids, the Xmas tour, the party, the upcoming trips & it's easy to imagine she could be VERY stressed out & at her rope's end.
Please do not use this thread for discussion. Please re-read the first post and follow directions accordingly. We want to have a thread for theories only to allow visitors to read and compare different theories without having to wade through comments on those theories.
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LinasK
Verified insider- Mark Dribin case
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My never before posted theory- the pineapple beforehand, and ransom letter as staging after still fit into it: I believe John was molesting JB in the basement and takes the sexual garroting game too far. The head bash- was either one of two things -one of the R's decides JB is too far gone/ they don't want to face the negative publicity of calling 911, so they finish her off with a head bash (golf club?) and the following cover-up, or 2) Patsy walks in on John molesting JB- after the garrote again, aims for John and accidentally in her rage bashs JB's head. Either way, the end result is the same. John contaminates the evidence by bringing JB up the stairs and Patsy also does by throwing herself on the body.
It's possible she was molested in the past by grandpa Paugh as well. The fiber evidence is real. This new "DNA" evidence is a red herring.
It's possible she was molested in the past by grandpa Paugh as well. The fiber evidence is real. This new "DNA" evidence is a red herring.
Okay, my theory (at least for now): Let's assume, for the moment, that the story about JB being asleep when they got home is false. Burke asks for a bedtime snack. Patsy sees a bowl of pineapple on the kitchen counter and gives him some, telling him not to paw at it. Both children have some.
JOHN: "Come on, honey. Let's get you to bed. Be with you in a minute, son."
BURKE: "I'll wait for you there, Dad."
PATSY: "Just a quick check to see if I missed anything."
Patsy is now alone. She's doing her thing. John puts JB in bed. They speak for a minute. Maybe something else. Maybe he gives her privates a "quick check." He goes down to the basement.
Patsy's catching her breath in the living room. John and Burke come up.
JOHN: Head on up to bed, son.
BURKE: "Okay, Dad."
The parents are alone.
JOHN: "Come on up to bed."
PATSY: "No, I'm not done yet."
JOHN: "You shouldn't take so much on yourself."
PATSY (irritated at him): "I have to. I do everything around here."
JOHN: "Sorry I mentioned it."
John goes upstairs. Soon, JB is back down.
PATSY: "What do you want now, honey," with a little irritation in her voice.
JB: "I did it again."
PATSY: "Oh, God. Come on."
Up to JB's room.
PATSY: "I dont see anything."
JB: "I didn't go to bed yet."
PATSY: "Can't you do anything I ask?"
JB: "I'm sorry."
PATSY: "Get in there."
Into the bathroom. Patsy cleans her up.
PATSY: "Here, don't tell you're father."
JB: "You and Daddy tell me secrets."
PATSY: "Secrets?"
JB: "Yeah, Daddy tells me to keep secrets."
PATSY: "Like what?"
JB (suddenly sullen): "It wouldn't be a secret then."
PATSY (now more irritated): "Fine."
Patsy becomes rough.
JB: "OW! Mommy, that hurts! Daddy's nicer."
PATSY: "I didn't think your father cleaned you up."
JB: "He doesn't. He calls it our special game."
PATSY's head snaps up. Their eyes meet.
JB (whispering): "I told the secret."
PATSY (in a rage): "YOU ROTTEN LITTLE LIAR!!"
JB (almost in a panic): "I'm sorry, Mommy!"
PATSY: "I'll teach you a lesson you won't forget!"
JB tries to run away, but her pants are still around her knees. She tries to pull them up, but trips. As she gets up, Patsy grabs her collar and flings her. She MEANS to toss JB onto the bed face-first and spank the daylights out of her. But she mistimes it and JB goes headfirst like a missile into a dresser at tremendous speed. It cracks her skull.
Patsy sees JB crumpled on the floor.
PATSY: "That won't work, you little faker. You're in big trouble."
She picks JB up and lays her on the bed. But she's so limp.
PATSY: "I said, cut it out."
Nothing. JB is in shock and doesn't seem to be breathing.
PATSY (anger replaced by worry): "JonBenet Patricia Ramsey, you cut that out right now. Baby? (Now panicked): BABY?! PLEASE say something! Oh, GOD, I didn't mean to! No, oh, God, no! Not my baby!"
John comes in.
JOHN: "What the h*** is going on in here?!"
Patsy turns. Her eyes, full of tears and hate. She blitzes him.
PATSY: "YOU B*****D!"
He grabs her wrists. "Are you crazy?!" He sees JB. "What did you do?!"
PATSY: "Me?! You couldn't get it from me, so you took her! And I believed YOU!"
JOHN: "You stupid, crazy *advertiser censored*! I have to save her!"
PATSY: "It's too late now! She's dead!"
JOHN: "NO! That's impossible!" (Keep in mind, John's lost Beth.)
PATSY: "I'll see you rot for this!"
JOHN: "How?! You killed her."
Patsy fights until she's fought-out. She collapses to the floor, sobbing.
JOHN: "Honey..."
PATSY: "We can't leave her like this. She's so beautiful. like an angel. She deserves better."
JOHN: "I can't believe this. Burke...what will happen to him?"
PATSY: "He can't ever know about this. He can't think we killed JonBenet."
JOHN: "How do we make this right?"
PATSY: "I thought you were the big expert!"
JOHN: "Shut up! I'm trying to think."
PATSY: "What kind of person would do this?"
JOHN: "The kind we saw in the Navy. Damn, I wish I could remember who they were."
And it just spirals from there. Putting anything they can think of into a possible scenario, they stage a scene. But Patsy's dramatic flair puts it over the top. John, wracked with guilt, knows she hangs by a hair, so he says nothing. He also knows that the truth will put him in prison where the inmates will line up to get a shot at them in horrible way...
PATSY: "What kind of knot do we use?"
JOHN: "Do it yourself."
Patsy ties a sloppy noose and sloppier wrist ties.
JOHN: "I can't even look at her like that."
They think about bundling her up to dump, but it's too risky. In the basement.
PATSY: "Wouldn't she have been messed with down there?"
JOHN: "Don't ask me to--"
PATSY: "You already DID! That's how we got into this mess."
JOHN: "I can't touch her like this." He uses the brush to avoid touching her privates. His fibers end up on her, having scuffed off his sleeve on her clothing when he pulls his arm back. "Can you write left-handed?"
PATSY: "Yeah, but--"
JOHN: "Come on."
John dictates part of the note, she writes. At this point, she's caught up in this. Her greatest pageant, her greatest adventure. It's exhilerating.
And that's it. Thank the gods, because I have NEVER felt ANYTHING as heart-wrenching as writing that, with the exception of burying my parents! I cried and sobbed the whole way through that! PLEASE don't ANYONE ask me any more!
But I will say this. As much as I'm repulsed by what I feel Patsy did, I don't hate her. I don't. And even though, in my weaker moments (which I admit are far more often than I'd like) I speculate about the tortures she faces in hell, when it comes right down to it, I believe that the gods took pity on her at death, and reunited her with her only daughter, and that both forgot the bad and only remembered the joy. I believe that because it gives me hope. Hope that if the gods can forgive, and if I can forgive, maybe there's a chance for all of us.
I'm sorry. I'm getting overwrought again. Excuse me.
(Please direct any comments to "picking up where we left off)
JOHN: "Come on, honey. Let's get you to bed. Be with you in a minute, son."
BURKE: "I'll wait for you there, Dad."
PATSY: "Just a quick check to see if I missed anything."
Patsy is now alone. She's doing her thing. John puts JB in bed. They speak for a minute. Maybe something else. Maybe he gives her privates a "quick check." He goes down to the basement.
Patsy's catching her breath in the living room. John and Burke come up.
JOHN: Head on up to bed, son.
BURKE: "Okay, Dad."
The parents are alone.
JOHN: "Come on up to bed."
PATSY: "No, I'm not done yet."
JOHN: "You shouldn't take so much on yourself."
PATSY (irritated at him): "I have to. I do everything around here."
JOHN: "Sorry I mentioned it."
John goes upstairs. Soon, JB is back down.
PATSY: "What do you want now, honey," with a little irritation in her voice.
JB: "I did it again."
PATSY: "Oh, God. Come on."
Up to JB's room.
PATSY: "I dont see anything."
JB: "I didn't go to bed yet."
PATSY: "Can't you do anything I ask?"
JB: "I'm sorry."
PATSY: "Get in there."
Into the bathroom. Patsy cleans her up.
PATSY: "Here, don't tell you're father."
JB: "You and Daddy tell me secrets."
PATSY: "Secrets?"
JB: "Yeah, Daddy tells me to keep secrets."
PATSY: "Like what?"
JB (suddenly sullen): "It wouldn't be a secret then."
PATSY (now more irritated): "Fine."
Patsy becomes rough.
JB: "OW! Mommy, that hurts! Daddy's nicer."
PATSY: "I didn't think your father cleaned you up."
JB: "He doesn't. He calls it our special game."
PATSY's head snaps up. Their eyes meet.
JB (whispering): "I told the secret."
PATSY (in a rage): "YOU ROTTEN LITTLE LIAR!!"
JB (almost in a panic): "I'm sorry, Mommy!"
PATSY: "I'll teach you a lesson you won't forget!"
JB tries to run away, but her pants are still around her knees. She tries to pull them up, but trips. As she gets up, Patsy grabs her collar and flings her. She MEANS to toss JB onto the bed face-first and spank the daylights out of her. But she mistimes it and JB goes headfirst like a missile into a dresser at tremendous speed. It cracks her skull.
Patsy sees JB crumpled on the floor.
PATSY: "That won't work, you little faker. You're in big trouble."
She picks JB up and lays her on the bed. But she's so limp.
PATSY: "I said, cut it out."
Nothing. JB is in shock and doesn't seem to be breathing.
PATSY (anger replaced by worry): "JonBenet Patricia Ramsey, you cut that out right now. Baby? (Now panicked): BABY?! PLEASE say something! Oh, GOD, I didn't mean to! No, oh, God, no! Not my baby!"
John comes in.
JOHN: "What the h*** is going on in here?!"
Patsy turns. Her eyes, full of tears and hate. She blitzes him.
PATSY: "YOU B*****D!"
He grabs her wrists. "Are you crazy?!" He sees JB. "What did you do?!"
PATSY: "Me?! You couldn't get it from me, so you took her! And I believed YOU!"
JOHN: "You stupid, crazy *advertiser censored*! I have to save her!"
PATSY: "It's too late now! She's dead!"
JOHN: "NO! That's impossible!" (Keep in mind, John's lost Beth.)
PATSY: "I'll see you rot for this!"
JOHN: "How?! You killed her."
Patsy fights until she's fought-out. She collapses to the floor, sobbing.
JOHN: "Honey..."
PATSY: "We can't leave her like this. She's so beautiful. like an angel. She deserves better."
JOHN: "I can't believe this. Burke...what will happen to him?"
PATSY: "He can't ever know about this. He can't think we killed JonBenet."
JOHN: "How do we make this right?"
PATSY: "I thought you were the big expert!"
JOHN: "Shut up! I'm trying to think."
PATSY: "What kind of person would do this?"
JOHN: "The kind we saw in the Navy. Damn, I wish I could remember who they were."
And it just spirals from there. Putting anything they can think of into a possible scenario, they stage a scene. But Patsy's dramatic flair puts it over the top. John, wracked with guilt, knows she hangs by a hair, so he says nothing. He also knows that the truth will put him in prison where the inmates will line up to get a shot at them in horrible way...
PATSY: "What kind of knot do we use?"
JOHN: "Do it yourself."
Patsy ties a sloppy noose and sloppier wrist ties.
JOHN: "I can't even look at her like that."
They think about bundling her up to dump, but it's too risky. In the basement.
PATSY: "Wouldn't she have been messed with down there?"
JOHN: "Don't ask me to--"
PATSY: "You already DID! That's how we got into this mess."
JOHN: "I can't touch her like this." He uses the brush to avoid touching her privates. His fibers end up on her, having scuffed off his sleeve on her clothing when he pulls his arm back. "Can you write left-handed?"
PATSY: "Yeah, but--"
JOHN: "Come on."
John dictates part of the note, she writes. At this point, she's caught up in this. Her greatest pageant, her greatest adventure. It's exhilerating.
And that's it. Thank the gods, because I have NEVER felt ANYTHING as heart-wrenching as writing that, with the exception of burying my parents! I cried and sobbed the whole way through that! PLEASE don't ANYONE ask me any more!
But I will say this. As much as I'm repulsed by what I feel Patsy did, I don't hate her. I don't. And even though, in my weaker moments (which I admit are far more often than I'd like) I speculate about the tortures she faces in hell, when it comes right down to it, I believe that the gods took pity on her at death, and reunited her with her only daughter, and that both forgot the bad and only remembered the joy. I believe that because it gives me hope. Hope that if the gods can forgive, and if I can forgive, maybe there's a chance for all of us.
I'm sorry. I'm getting overwrought again. Excuse me.
(Please direct any comments to "picking up where we left off)
Forgiveness is always an option for anyone- God included. We all have the ability to forgive. It is our choice. Not always an easy choice and not always something that should be done. But the choice is always there.
angelwngs
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-As a consideration, premeditation in this crime would make when the 'replacement' American Girl doll was ordered a 'supporting fact' of premeditation, as it is said to have arrived the first week in January of 1997.
-To investigate the hardware store purchase of items in price consistent with/duct tape and cord being bought prior to Dec 25, opens up the "possibility" of premeditation.
-To investigate the timing of the order and delivery of the replacement doll must also open up the "possibility" of premeditation.
-McReynolds was a journalism professor, his wife wrote the play "Hey Rube". They have a Dec 26 connection with a very similar crime. They had a standing 3 year history with PR, who signed her Christmas letters "PPRBSJ", to stand for Patsy P. Ramsey, Bachelor of Science In Journalism, a small but obvious sign of an insecurity large enough to suggest as a 'mental issue'.
I find it highly unlikely that PR was unaware of the McReynold's 'history'. If she knew the Dec 26 connection prior to Dec 26, 1996, and I believe that she did, the coincidence with this date would simply be one more fact which a psychopathic mind could factor into a premeditated crime in order to create the "perfect murder".
Obviously, PR needed a 'work of greatness' by which to be remembered.
For what is PR remembered?
The TV interviews, the tabloid interviews, her paintings and a book???
If the My Twinn's eyes indeed were manufactured to remained open when lying down, PR used flamboyant, journalistic embellishment to add 'colorful' details creating an impossible 'premonition of JBR's death' when she said in DOI that when she (PR) opened the MY Twinn box upon its arrival that she had a vision of JBR lying in a coffin.
On her deathbed she completed the painting "Beach Buddies", the copy of Betty Hammond's painting "Pals". PR's version is said to depict BR with his arm around the neck of JBR. Would a sane mother, whose daughter had been strangled to death be able to detach from that fact long enough to paint anything around her dead daughter's neck? I don't think so. In this painting, was PR writing the last line of her 'greatest work' and throwing her last 'suspect-victim', BR, under the bus?
PR is remembered by the masses ONLY because her daughter, JBR was murdered. PR threw herself into the spotlight.
I see her as a probable psychopathic journalism major who authored what she saw as the legacy of a perfect real life crime novel. (IMO)
Was it calculated and premeditated or subconsciously acted out following a rage induced conflict? Reguardless, I fear that in her own warped reality, she had been mentally writing the chapters to this book for many years.
IMO, Premeditation becomes much more of a possibility when you factor in an extreme need for validation with a terribly unstable mind.
For me, trying to 'get into this particular mind' is a very scary place to go.
The above reflects my opinion only and is subject to change as often and as quickly as my menopausal hot flashes occur.
-To investigate the hardware store purchase of items in price consistent with/duct tape and cord being bought prior to Dec 25, opens up the "possibility" of premeditation.
-To investigate the timing of the order and delivery of the replacement doll must also open up the "possibility" of premeditation.
-McReynolds was a journalism professor, his wife wrote the play "Hey Rube". They have a Dec 26 connection with a very similar crime. They had a standing 3 year history with PR, who signed her Christmas letters "PPRBSJ", to stand for Patsy P. Ramsey, Bachelor of Science In Journalism, a small but obvious sign of an insecurity large enough to suggest as a 'mental issue'.
I find it highly unlikely that PR was unaware of the McReynold's 'history'. If she knew the Dec 26 connection prior to Dec 26, 1996, and I believe that she did, the coincidence with this date would simply be one more fact which a psychopathic mind could factor into a premeditated crime in order to create the "perfect murder".
Obviously, PR needed a 'work of greatness' by which to be remembered.
For what is PR remembered?
The TV interviews, the tabloid interviews, her paintings and a book???
If the My Twinn's eyes indeed were manufactured to remained open when lying down, PR used flamboyant, journalistic embellishment to add 'colorful' details creating an impossible 'premonition of JBR's death' when she said in DOI that when she (PR) opened the MY Twinn box upon its arrival that she had a vision of JBR lying in a coffin.
On her deathbed she completed the painting "Beach Buddies", the copy of Betty Hammond's painting "Pals". PR's version is said to depict BR with his arm around the neck of JBR. Would a sane mother, whose daughter had been strangled to death be able to detach from that fact long enough to paint anything around her dead daughter's neck? I don't think so. In this painting, was PR writing the last line of her 'greatest work' and throwing her last 'suspect-victim', BR, under the bus?
PR is remembered by the masses ONLY because her daughter, JBR was murdered. PR threw herself into the spotlight.
I see her as a probable psychopathic journalism major who authored what she saw as the legacy of a perfect real life crime novel. (IMO)
Was it calculated and premeditated or subconsciously acted out following a rage induced conflict? Reguardless, I fear that in her own warped reality, she had been mentally writing the chapters to this book for many years.
IMO, Premeditation becomes much more of a possibility when you factor in an extreme need for validation with a terribly unstable mind.
For me, trying to 'get into this particular mind' is a very scary place to go.
The above reflects my opinion only and is subject to change as often and as quickly as my menopausal hot flashes occur.
Mysterylover
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I always found their words and actions very strange.
WHY the reason for lying about whether Burke was awake, saying he was asleep? when the truth was, B. was awake?...big clue, imo
WHY was Burke asking them "What DID you find?"
I believe this is why John sternly said "we're NOT talking to YOU." were they upset/mad with Burke?
Why were they NOT talking to B.?
when his sister had been kidnapped?...cause she hadn't..imo
WHY the reason for lying about whether Burke was awake, saying he was asleep? when the truth was, B. was awake?...big clue, imo
WHY was Burke asking them "What DID you find?"
I believe this is why John sternly said "we're NOT talking to YOU." were they upset/mad with Burke?
Why were they NOT talking to B.?
when his sister had been kidnapped?...cause she hadn't..imo
Holdontoyourhat
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As this IDI sees it, a rich man, maybe richer than JR, coveted JBR. He is foreign, both culturally and politically. He explained to JR his 'ideological justification' for kidnapping JBR in the form of a long ransom note.
He used a ransom ruse to keep investigators off the track of a rich person.
He and/or his agents spent a lot of money planning and carrying out the kidnapping.
While getting JBR ready for the car (blanket, tape, 2nd ligature), she managed to scream. They felt the kidnapping was then compromised, and there was then too much risk of exposing the rich man to move JBR from the house to the car. Instead they strangled her. They added the headbash so she could not be revived to expose her attackers.
What is real: garrote strangulation, 2nd ligature, headbash, blanket, tape, foreign faction that disrepects US and doesn't like fat cats, two gentlemen plus author, and late night scream
What is fake: the ransom part: 'get 118,000,' 'we will call tomorrow'
He used a ransom ruse to keep investigators off the track of a rich person.
He and/or his agents spent a lot of money planning and carrying out the kidnapping.
While getting JBR ready for the car (blanket, tape, 2nd ligature), she managed to scream. They felt the kidnapping was then compromised, and there was then too much risk of exposing the rich man to move JBR from the house to the car. Instead they strangled her. They added the headbash so she could not be revived to expose her attackers.
What is real: garrote strangulation, 2nd ligature, headbash, blanket, tape, foreign faction that disrepects US and doesn't like fat cats, two gentlemen plus author, and late night scream
What is fake: the ransom part: 'get 118,000,' 'we will call tomorrow'
I'm sure this theory, in some form, has been suggested here, and I know that PD investigator has supposed something similar, so forgive me if it's redundant:
JB, getting ready for bed, wets herself, sheet, P is furious (her illness, marriage troubles, upcoming trip, etc. compound her anger) and takes JB to bathroom where she, after stripping her, cleans up JB, letting her anger get the best of her, roughly scrubs legs, vagina (inside and out), with such force, it elicits scream(s) from JB. In the struggle to keep the girl still as she wriggles to get free, P loses her grip on the girl and wham! JB falls and hits head on sink, toilet, tub. Thinking her daughter seriously hurt, (as she's now unconcious), and panicking about how it would look to hospital (vaginal damage, esp. since JB had twice already seen nurse and worried about making her already downwardly spiraling life worse) she decides to try to revive her herself. To hide from Burke, and perhaps John, too - don't know if I'm convinced he was involved in death) she redresses and takes JB to basement. After realizing daughter has, in fact, died, or just thinking she has, devises cover-up plan in earnest panic - the coverup we all agree on, no?
The garotte, fashioned from what was nearby, the binding of the wrist, the tape, etc, all done to approximate what P thinks a sexual predator would do. She covers the body out of shame -most killers, accidental or not, if close to victim, often 'make them comfortable' in an effort to erase some of the terrible nature of the crime.
I don't think she originally wanted to leave JB in the house, but after taking so long to write and rewrite the ransom note, realizes how little time she has before she is supposedly to wake and get ready for flight, wake children, (at which point would 'notice JB missing) and is caught by John and/or Burke while frantically planning - I think all of the above. John and she rush to get their stories straight, call 911, and at this point, Burke is confused, explaining the exchange btwn father and him on 911 recording.
The separation of the parents, so strange to investigators, is due to Js fury at Ps accident and bungling of the scene. Perhaps they had wanted to change their mind and come clean, but after the garotting that ultimately killed their daughter, it was too late.
JB, getting ready for bed, wets herself, sheet, P is furious (her illness, marriage troubles, upcoming trip, etc. compound her anger) and takes JB to bathroom where she, after stripping her, cleans up JB, letting her anger get the best of her, roughly scrubs legs, vagina (inside and out), with such force, it elicits scream(s) from JB. In the struggle to keep the girl still as she wriggles to get free, P loses her grip on the girl and wham! JB falls and hits head on sink, toilet, tub. Thinking her daughter seriously hurt, (as she's now unconcious), and panicking about how it would look to hospital (vaginal damage, esp. since JB had twice already seen nurse and worried about making her already downwardly spiraling life worse) she decides to try to revive her herself. To hide from Burke, and perhaps John, too - don't know if I'm convinced he was involved in death) she redresses and takes JB to basement. After realizing daughter has, in fact, died, or just thinking she has, devises cover-up plan in earnest panic - the coverup we all agree on, no?
The garotte, fashioned from what was nearby, the binding of the wrist, the tape, etc, all done to approximate what P thinks a sexual predator would do. She covers the body out of shame -most killers, accidental or not, if close to victim, often 'make them comfortable' in an effort to erase some of the terrible nature of the crime.
I don't think she originally wanted to leave JB in the house, but after taking so long to write and rewrite the ransom note, realizes how little time she has before she is supposedly to wake and get ready for flight, wake children, (at which point would 'notice JB missing) and is caught by John and/or Burke while frantically planning - I think all of the above. John and she rush to get their stories straight, call 911, and at this point, Burke is confused, explaining the exchange btwn father and him on 911 recording.
The separation of the parents, so strange to investigators, is due to Js fury at Ps accident and bungling of the scene. Perhaps they had wanted to change their mind and come clean, but after the garotting that ultimately killed their daughter, it was too late.
Ames
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IMO...after JB walked into the home and up the stairs ON HER OWN..as Burke orginally stated. Patsy helped to change her into her red turtleneck, (the one that was later found balled up on the bathroom counter, Patsy would have placed it THERE, because JB threw all of her clothes onto the floor) to save time the next morning when they had to get ready to leave for their trip. After changing, she came downstairs for a little bit of pineapple...which, made her wet the bed, after she fell asleep. Patsy was up getting things ready for the trip, when JB came to tell her that she had wet the bed YET AGAIN. Patsy, having too many drinks at the party (she admitted to drinking wine there), coupled with the stress of the trip and the day and night's festivities, was angry with JB. She grabbed her up and took her into the bathroom, where she very forcefully tried to remove the urine soaked red turtleneck from JB. A turtleneck is not an easy thing to remove, even when you do it slowly. Patsy, while angrily trying to remove the turtleneck from JB, started yanking, pulling and jerking at the shirt, trying to get it up over JB's head. JB loses her balance, and falls onto either the side of the tub, sink or toilet, with such force that it displaces a bone in her skull. She is knocked unconsious, and most likely bleeding from her ears, nose, or mouth...or all three. Patsy screams...(this IMO..is the scream that the neighbor heard), and John comes running to see what has happened. JB was unconsious and still bleeding from her ears, nose and/or mouth (which always happens in the case of a severe head blow, I have posted a website on another thread, concerning this) and appeared dead. Thinking that JB WAS ALREADY dead, they had to come up with a plan to keep Patsy out of jail, because not only did she have cancer...but, she had a son that she had to help raise. Not to mention that being a jailbird doesn't look to good to her fancy schmancy friends and neighbors. What WOULD they THINK?? So, the staging began. Everything else that was done to JB was made to look like an intruder/kidnapper/killer had done it. Staging within staging.
JMO8778
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that's my PDI theory as well (although it's not my only theory)...only thing I would change is I think JB was stuck on the head w/ the flashlight,perhaps out of anger that she wasn't cooperating w getting her clothes changed and or getting cleaned up.
If it is this scenario,then I think John enters the pic when he hears Patsy scream..and the cover-up begins;calling 911 for help or taking JB to ER is nixed due to the vaginal damage (from whatever source).
Remember BR asked the question..'why did JB have to die??' IMO,it's obvious he overheard this..that JB "had to die",there was no other choice (due to the chronic abuse),and calling for help was out of the question.
If it is this scenario,then I think John enters the pic when he hears Patsy scream..and the cover-up begins;calling 911 for help or taking JB to ER is nixed due to the vaginal damage (from whatever source).
Remember BR asked the question..'why did JB have to die??' IMO,it's obvious he overheard this..that JB "had to die",there was no other choice (due to the chronic abuse),and calling for help was out of the question.
Dalles
Former Member
I personally don't think it was anyone living in the house. The coverup was too complex for a child. Plus I think if Burke had done it it would have been because he was jealous of the attention she was getting by parents and others so I would think if he did do it he wouldn't have made her pretty. Meaning hitting her in the face, etc.
The note, the paint brush, the hitting over the head. My personal belief is that there were two perps. Probably teenagers, boy and girl. I think they lured her into the basement maybe to look for hidden christmas presents and maybe she started crying or called out to her Mom and the teenage boy picked up something and hit her. I think it was the teenage girl that staged it. The staging of rape and covering the face showed guilt.
Now the specific amount the father was getting as a bonus. Who knows, maybe one of the teenagers was related or had a friend who was close to Burke, maybe one of them mowed lawns or even babysat where they overheard the father talking about the amount he was getting. Also the placement of the note on the stairs. I would think that if Burke did it he would have placed it in a different location. Higher on the stairs. He would have been on his way to his room anyway. Also I think if it was Burke he would have had guilt. I think he would have been the one to "notice" JonBenet was missing. "Where's JonBenet?" Kids get up early to open presents and usually wake the parents.
The note, the paint brush, the hitting over the head. My personal belief is that there were two perps. Probably teenagers, boy and girl. I think they lured her into the basement maybe to look for hidden christmas presents and maybe she started crying or called out to her Mom and the teenage boy picked up something and hit her. I think it was the teenage girl that staged it. The staging of rape and covering the face showed guilt.
Now the specific amount the father was getting as a bonus. Who knows, maybe one of the teenagers was related or had a friend who was close to Burke, maybe one of them mowed lawns or even babysat where they overheard the father talking about the amount he was getting. Also the placement of the note on the stairs. I would think that if Burke did it he would have placed it in a different location. Higher on the stairs. He would have been on his way to his room anyway. Also I think if it was Burke he would have had guilt. I think he would have been the one to "notice" JonBenet was missing. "Where's JonBenet?" Kids get up early to open presents and usually wake the parents.
RDT...
Im not sure if Ive ever posted my theory on here or not, probably at some point I did but here goes, I agree with superdave that it started with JBR molesting JB. I believe that she was carried up to bed by John who thought he would have his way with her while she was sleeping and she awoke to him hurting her, (which would explain the scream around midnight) in order to shut her up he placed his hand hard over her mouth and kept her from screaming/breathing, she probably past out and died from lack of oxygen (which would explain why her hyoid bone was not broken but she had petechai (cs?). Then Patsy infuriated with him asked what was wrong and came flying up and he quickly made some cockamamie story up and patsy in shock believed him, after fighting all night about what happened he probably told her to go write the rn, while he changed her (she wet herself during the struggle) and put her in bigger underpants, which I highly doubt pr would do....and then it was him who threw the turtleneck in the sink. I dont think Patsy would have left that laying around knowing that it would stand out so clearly, a man (no offense guys) typically does not think that clothing laying around like that is a big deal) and so he probably thought nothing of tossing it in the sink. Then he prepared the body in the basement.
I used to think it was an accident but I dont think PR would kill her daughter had some accident occured, I think she would have made something up like 'oh jb fell down the stairs' the fact that they turned it into a sexual assault gone deadly seems to me johns idea, to cover up his own actions. I cant for the life of me picture patsy doing that awful thing with the paintbrush...I just cant. I could however see Jr doing it in an attempt to cover up prior damage. I also believe that the reason the PF did not change her clothes was no accident,(they couldnt possibly be that stupid) Patsy purposely did NOT change so that she could then explain why in the future her fibers would be found on JBRs body...remember she threw herself ontop of JBR's body when she was lieing next to the Christmas tree?? that explains it, she thought okay nows my chance to deposit the same fibers that I got on her last night, MOO....But this seems to me a plot by JR because I doubt Patsy in her frenzied state of mind could have cooked all this up in her state of panic. John was the one who was cool and collected, Lynda Arndts first impression could not be wrong with what she felt when she first saw John that day...MOO....
Im not sure if Ive ever posted my theory on here or not, probably at some point I did but here goes, I agree with superdave that it started with JBR molesting JB. I believe that she was carried up to bed by John who thought he would have his way with her while she was sleeping and she awoke to him hurting her, (which would explain the scream around midnight) in order to shut her up he placed his hand hard over her mouth and kept her from screaming/breathing, she probably past out and died from lack of oxygen (which would explain why her hyoid bone was not broken but she had petechai (cs?). Then Patsy infuriated with him asked what was wrong and came flying up and he quickly made some cockamamie story up and patsy in shock believed him, after fighting all night about what happened he probably told her to go write the rn, while he changed her (she wet herself during the struggle) and put her in bigger underpants, which I highly doubt pr would do....and then it was him who threw the turtleneck in the sink. I dont think Patsy would have left that laying around knowing that it would stand out so clearly, a man (no offense guys) typically does not think that clothing laying around like that is a big deal) and so he probably thought nothing of tossing it in the sink. Then he prepared the body in the basement.
I used to think it was an accident but I dont think PR would kill her daughter had some accident occured, I think she would have made something up like 'oh jb fell down the stairs' the fact that they turned it into a sexual assault gone deadly seems to me johns idea, to cover up his own actions. I cant for the life of me picture patsy doing that awful thing with the paintbrush...I just cant. I could however see Jr doing it in an attempt to cover up prior damage. I also believe that the reason the PF did not change her clothes was no accident,(they couldnt possibly be that stupid) Patsy purposely did NOT change so that she could then explain why in the future her fibers would be found on JBRs body...remember she threw herself ontop of JBR's body when she was lieing next to the Christmas tree?? that explains it, she thought okay nows my chance to deposit the same fibers that I got on her last night, MOO....But this seems to me a plot by JR because I doubt Patsy in her frenzied state of mind could have cooked all this up in her state of panic. John was the one who was cool and collected, Lynda Arndts first impression could not be wrong with what she felt when she first saw John that day...MOO....
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.......................posting anyything on this case anywhere..............
i remember it being said on the news, they had DNA evidence that cleared the mother father i believe.........................my question, my look into this cold case............wou8ld be to question again anyhone whom had access to the house, and knew its lay out.......someone whyom had spent sometime in the main living area, in front of the large glass window............someone, whom would be there at nights at times as a guess, or person whom had a reason for being there..........especially any from the summer before........
i remember it being said on the news, they had DNA evidence that cleared the mother father i believe.........................my question, my look into this cold case............wou8ld be to question again anyhone whom had access to the house, and knew its lay out.......someone whyom had spent sometime in the main living area, in front of the large glass window............someone, whom would be there at nights at times as a guess, or person whom had a reason for being there..........especially any from the summer before........
I think after their party everyone went to bed,John got back up to go into JB.s room (maybe taking the pinapple to soften her up,maybe she had asked PR for something before she went to bed but PR said no)He began to molest her,Patsy woke up and walked into the room,hence the scream heard by neighbours.She hit JB in temper blaming her for John molesting her,cracked her head and the cover up began.
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