KC Borrow's CA's Car

[BondJamesBond]

1:55 is the time from the tow yard per Simon's statement.

ETA: He gets this time from the "time release" they have to do on all cars.

OK...great & thx. will add the 911 call info and tow yard timestamp in an edit and bump the timeline.

The 9:50PM is coming from my (albeit faulty) memory of George's statement to Cindy when he spoke to her on the phone about when he could be home. The time on his first statement to LE (w/ the signature LE diag lines on the bottom in the first 400pg release) is prolly the best obj. evidence we have of when we know he was there....it's not critical, IMHO, assuming his employer can verify he showed up...so I just call it ~9:50PM. It just gives me something to tag this trip with since it doesn't show up on his EPass.

I may have a square peg & round hole w/ the timestamp on the towyard though...vs. EPasses @ 2:30PM...Hmmmm

 

[Coley]

ok, then, just speculation? gonna delete my post now. come back re: 9:50, etc. in a sec.

I guess you can say speculation. I call it Coley-lation. Anyways, has that "trash bag" been "logged" by LE. I mean, we see all of the stuff they took from the home like clothes. Is there anywhere that says the contents of the bag from LE? I know in between the night of the 15th and 16th LE went to the tow yard to retrieve the bag b/c Simon freaked out on the 16th when he went into the dumpster to find it but couldn't so he called Yuri.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Silly me...here is the sequence of messages between KC and Amy:

KC AH 7/15/08 4:53 PM I think your camera is at my parents. I’ll check later to be sure.
AH KC 7/15/08 5:22 PM It’s not. I must have put down the wrong address bc it came back there. I'm just having it sent to the boys’ house.
KC AH 7/15/08 5:30 PM Oh, ok. My mom had texted me something about it.

EPass for CA shows her going through the toll near the airport at 6:17 PM. According to Google, it is a 17 minute drive to that toll from the Anthony's assuming normal traffic delays and adherence to the speed limit. Total 30 minute drive to the mall. Then, 29 minute drive to AL's from the mall taking Colonial rather than toll road. Call it 7:00 to 7:15 when they get to AL.

Thanks, JWG...and it looks from above that Amy had made it to her apt. by 5:22PM to find the camera that had been shipped there, then another, what?, 15-20mins for Amy & J.P. back over to the Mall so they can be there for Amy to get Cindy's call. With this info and Coley's info we can tighten up 7/15 a bit...

 

[Coley]

Which Johnson's do they tow it to? The one on Blossom or Wilmer?

 

[Katana]

OK, BeanE. Let's noodlin' on this a bit...

Someone familiar w/ Amy's statements can prolly narrow down the approx. times when Cindy called Amy, then picked her up @ the Mall, IIRC, 7/15PM.

~2:30PM George comes in per EPass records of his Chevy HHR
~2:30PM Cindy appears to be rolling in per EPass records in her Toyota 4Runner.
~#:##PM Cindy & George leave the towyard
~#:##PM Cindy and George get home w/ the Pontiac (Or at least est. based on when they picked up from towyard)
~<5:10PM George leaves for work (IF I'm reading EPass records correctly)

Casey's pings support...
~2:30PM Casey met Amy @ the airport
~3:20PM Casey & Amy leave the airport area after presumably picking up luggage

4:02PM Casey sends Amy a facebook message, "so glad you’re home.i better not see you online.life is on hold until tomorrow" suggesting Amy has now dropped her off @ Tony's.

#:##PM Amy returns to the airport and picks up the boys
#:##PM Amy and J.P. goto Mall
#:##PM Cindy calls Amy
B:BBPM Cindy picks up Amy
~6:30PM Cindy and Amy show up @ Tony's apt (my guess based on last outbound ping before 9:27PM Tony calling Amy w/ Casey's phone that was left @ his apartment)
#:##PM Cindy makes first 911 call

Note: I have a small error in the ping spreadsheet to fix, so bear w/ me if these are off just a bit...

Sooooo....need 'lil help establishing <5:10PM* and B:BB PM.

*IF I'm reading EPass records correctly
George's-only-focused on 7/15: http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2981746&postcount=96
G&C's for both June & July: http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2907723&postcount=16

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

I found the document filed by the tow yard that listed the release time of the car at 1:55. I can't figure out how this time fits in to the time they would have returned home. Their E-pass records shows them in their own vehicles at 2:30.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I guess you can say speculation. I call it Coley-lation.

I like it...almost like a coe-ree-ration, but, then, that would be poh-ricarr-ee incoh-rec

Anyways, has that "trash bag" been "logged" by LE. I mean, we see all of the stuff they took from the home like clothes. Is there anywhere that says the contents of the bag from LE? I know in between the night of the 15th and 16th LE went to the tow yard to retrieve the bag b/c Simon freaked out on the 16th when he went into the dumpster to find it but couldn't so he called Yuri.

It was logged as a single item on a single page as a white trash bag in the first 400pgs. Grrrrr..

 

[Coley]

I like it...almost like a coe-ree-ration, but, then, that would be poh-ricarr-ee incoh-rec



It was logged as a single item on a single page as a white trash bag in the first 400pgs. Grrrrr..

I'm not sure how they log things but wouldn't you think that if there were large items (pizza box) they would log them apart? I know they wouldn't log the papers inside of it so this right here makes me think the box was thrown away at the A's.

 

[Katana]

I guess you can say speculation. I call it Coley-lation. Anyways, has that "trash bag" been "logged" by LE. I mean, we see all of the stuff they took from the home like clothes. Is there anywhere that says the contents of the bag from LE? I know in between the night of the 15th and 16th LE went to the tow yard to retrieve the bag b/c Simon freaked out on the 16th when he went into the dumpster to find it but couldn't so he called Yuri.

Oh really? I didn't know Simon couldn't find the bag. So, was he just overlooking it because I thought LE did retrieve the bag from the dumpster?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Which Johnson's do they tow it to? The one on Blossom or Wilmer?

...yet another area where I'm useless. I deleted almost all of the case material last week. I vowed only to keep tabs on things...not plow back in. IIRC, this is in the 600pg doc dump.

Sooo...I'm sure it appears as laziness on my part when I'm asking for source checks...its actually cause I didn't make it very far in the Anthony-Case-12-step-program.

 

[Coley]

Oh really? I didn't know Simon couldn't find the bag. So, was he just overlooking it because I thought LE did retrieve the bag from the dumpster?

On the 16th when Simon said he woke up he saw all the news reports. So when he got to work he wanted to get the bag so he looked and even got in the dumpster. After not being able to locate it he called Yuri, who then tells him they came during the night and the night person on duty let them in and they got it.

 

[JWG]

Thanks, JWG...and it looks from above that Amy had made it to her apt. by 5:22PM to find the camera that had been shipped there, then another, what?, 15-20mins for Amy & J.P. back over to the Mall so they can be there for Amy to get Cindy's call. With this info and Coley's info we can tighten up 7/15 a bit...

Tightening even more...

6:26:32 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. AT&T re: Past Due

Clearly Amy and CA not at AL's yet. Further support for a 7:00 PM arrival.

From AL's second interview, mentions that Amy knocks on the door while AL and Nate are playing video games. KC is on her laptop. Amy has a miserable look on her face and KC gets up and goes outside with her. They are outside for what he believes to be about 1/2 an hour. Completely clueless as to what is going down because he and Nate continue playing video games.

At this point CA and KC come in, and CA wants KC to get her things. KC tells her no but leaves with CA. Let's call it 7:30. This jives with AL saying he was in the dark for about two hours and ended up calling Amy on KCs phone to find out what was going on. This was 9:27 PM.

According to Amy, CA drives back to Glenwood to drop Amy off and then CA and KC head back to the Anthony home. That is about 40 to 45 minutes more of driving. So CA and KC get back to the parents at around 8:15 PM.

Anyone have the timestamps on the 911 calls?

 

[BondJamesBond]

I'm not sure how they log things but wouldn't you think that if there were large items (pizza box) they would log them apart? I know they wouldn't log the papers inside of it so this right here makes me think the box was thrown away at the A's.

I see your point. I'm just basing my thoughts on George's account of what was in the bag when Simon picked it up and tossed it into the dumpster. It sounded to me like George didn't even touch the bag, and they just peered into it together. George stated it contained a pizza box (not sure what type), maggots, etc. George said he didn't know what size the bag was...he muttered "kitchen size". So, I envisioned, FWIW, this was a drawstring-type bag (IIRC, the evidence statement in the 400pgs indicates it is a white bag w/ blue handles....way out on a limb there) and George said it was white and/or see-through - so they could either see through the bag enough to come up w/ the contents description George gave...or they tugged the tie handles open enough to peer into it. I just never got the impression anything came outta the box and since George said something like it contained these items. Still - I see your point.

There...I used alota words..didn't say much though

 

[JWG]

Sooo...I'm sure it appears as laziness on my part when I'm asking for source checks...its actually cause I didn't make it very far in the Anthony-Case-12-step-program.

Me either. Taking some vacation days. Rehabilitating a surgically-repaired ankle. Cold and rainy. Nothing to do but get sucked in the case way more than I should.

 

[Coley]

Tightening even more...

6:26:32 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. AT&T re: Past Due

Clearly Amy and CA not at AL's yet. Further support for a 7:00 PM arrival.

From AL's second interview, mentions that Amy knocks on the door while AL and Nate are playing video games. KC is on her laptop. Amy has a miserable look on her face and KC gets up and goes outside with her. They are outside for what he believes to be about 1/2 an hour. Completely clueless as to what is going down because he and Nate continue playing video games.

At this point CA and KC come in, and CA wants KC to get her things. KC tells her no but leaves with CA. Let's call it 7:30. This jives with AL saying he was in the dark for about two hours and ended up calling Amy on KCs phone to find out what was going on. This was 9:27 PM.

According to Amy, CA drives back to Glenwood to drop Amy off and then CA and KC head back to the Anthony home. That is about 40 to 45 minutes more of driving. So CA and KC get back to the parents at around 8:15 PM.

Anyone have the timestamps on the 911 calls?

8:45 1st call
9:44 2nd call


Anyone find the address to Johnson's? I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Coley]

I see your point. I'm just basing my thoughts on George's account of what was in the bag when Simon picked it up and tossed it into the dumpster. It sounded to me like George didn't even touch the bag, and they just peered into it together. George stated it contained a pizza box (not sure what type), maggots, etc. George said he didn't know what size the bag was...he muttered "kitchen size". So, I envisioned, FWIW, this was a drawstring-type bag (IIRC, the evidence statement in the 400pgs indicates it is a white bag w/ blue handles....way out on a limb there) and George said it was white and/or see-through - so they could either see through the bag enough to come up w/ the contents description George gave...or they tugged the tie handles open enough to peer into it. I just never got the impression anything came outta the box and since George said something like it contained these items. Still - I see your point.

There...I used alota words..didn't say much though

Yes, the bag was a drawstring with orange strings and it was white. Simon stated he couldn't forget the bag b/c the ones at the tow yard are black with red strings so it stuck out.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Tightening even more...

6:26:32 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. AT&T re: Past Due

Clearly Amy and CA not at AL's yet. Further support for a 7:00 PM arrival.

From AL's second interview, mentions that Amy knocks on the door while AL and Nate are playing video games. KC is on her laptop. Amy has a miserable look on her face and KC gets up and goes outside with her. They are outside for what he believes to be about 1/2 an hour. Completely clueless as to what is going down because he and Nate continue playing video games.

At this point CA and KC come in, and CA wants KC to get her things. KC tells her no but leaves with CA. Let's call it 7:30. This jives with AL saying he was in the dark for about two hours and ended up calling Amy on KCs phone to find out what was going on. This was 9:27 PM.

According to Amy, CA drives back to Glenwood to drop Amy off and then CA and KC head back to the Anthony home. That is about 40 to 45 minutes more of driving. So CA and KC get back to the parents at around 8:15 PM.

Anyone have the timestamps on the 911 calls?

Thanks, JWG. Coley gave us the 911 timestamps earlier...I just haven't incorporated them yet. I may hafta come back and do some housecleaning to get it all in there w/o bumping it a gazillion times.

I think the net-net of all of this is that Cindy had ~1hr on her own @ home with the Pontiac to do her thang...the pants, the knife, and whatever else we don't know about.

 

[Coley]

Thanks, JWG. Coley gave us the 911 timestamps earlier...I just haven't incorporated them yet. I may hafta come back and do some housecleaning to get it all in there w/o bumping it a gazillion times.

I think the net-net of all of this is that Cindy had ~1hr on her own @ home with the Pontiac to do her thang...the pants, the knife, and whatever else we don't know about.

I would assume she had more than an hour. If the time stamp from the tow yard was at 1:55 then from that time until going to Florida Mall would be roughly 4 hours give or take. Unless she was always with GA when he hit the tolls at:

2:29-Airport
2:32-Beline
5:10-Beline
5:14-Airport
5:17-Goldenrod

Now this above toll stuff of GA looks awfully strange to me. Did GA really only work from 3ish-5ish?

 

[BondJamesBond]

I would assume she had more than an hour. If the time stamp from the tow yard was at 1:55 then from that time until going to Florida Mall would be roughly 4 hours give or take. Unless she was always with GA when he hit the tolls at:

2:29-Airport
2:32-Beline
5:10-Beline
5:14-Airport
5:17-Goldenrod

Now this above toll stuff of GA looks awfully strange to me. Did GA really only work from 3ish-5ish?

I should clarify...IF (big if) I'm reading the EPass correctly, George was rollin' past the first toll booth on his way to work @ 5:10PM. And we've got Cindy heading through her first toll booth to go get Amy @ 6:17PM...then Cindy had ~1hr alone with the Pontiac w/o George. Yes, definitely, together G&C had >>1hr to tag-team-it if they did.

Gotta figure out why the disconnect on 1:55PM towyard release and 2:30PM timestamps on... EPass...UNLESS....OK...hold the phone...

The ~2:30 EPass tolls are their trip home from the towyard. Cindy mustabeen driving George's HHR....ok...They had from just after 2:30PM (from the last toll booth on the beeline to G&C's) until George left ~5:10PM...easily 2hrs+ with this car before George headed out, then, Cindy had ~1 hr more with it on her own.

 

[BondJamesBond]

:waitasec: &#259;k-s&#277;s'-u-r&#275; :waitasec:

 

[Coley]

I should clarify...IF (big if) I'm reading the EPass correctly, George was rollin' past the first toll booth on his way to work @ 5:10PM. And we've got Cindy heading through her first toll booth to go get Amy @ 6:17PM...then Cindy had ~1hr alone with the Pontiac w/o George. Yes, definitely, together G&C had >>1hr to tag-team-it if they did.

Gotta figure out why the disconnect on 1:55PM towyard release and 2:30PM timestamps on both their EPasses...UNLESS....OK...hold the phone...

The ~2:30 EPass tolls are their trip home from the towyard. Cindy mustabeen driving George's HHR....ok...They had from just after 2:30PM (from the last toll booth on the beeline to G&C's) until George left ~5:10PM...easily 2hrs+ with this car before George headed out, then, Cindy had ~1 hr more with it on her own.

But, If I'm looking correctly on maps the airport & beline are out of the way of the tow yard. Also, I did a map from GA work to the A residence and if you avoid tolls it's WAY out of the way and if you were in a hurry to come home about all of this hoopla you would go the fastest route: tolls. We just don't see GA coming back home in the hhr.