Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

[Oakley]

Thanks, Chilly. Because if KC's thefts from her grandparents were already old news to Cindy, then we don't know why -- or even if -- Cindy went into a rage when she got home and attempted to strangle KC. IIRC, we have only KC's words (to JG?) about Cindy's attack on her. And we know how "poor KC" loves telling tales of how abused she is by everyone.

Wouldn't it be ironic, if CA was actually telling the truth about the evening of June 15th but we're all assuming she's telling us yet another mis-truth...which is mis-leading us to focus on the wrong events/reasons for KC taking Caylee's life.

Friday, this week's NE reports that Lee was present during the fight and witnessed Cindy's hands around Casey's throat. It further states that Lee heard Cindy threaten to throw Casey out and keep Caylee, and Lee broke up the fight. Article also states that Lee gave this information to LE. Many here have pointed out that NE has correctly reported facts in other cases. IDK, just stating what I have read myself.

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

That I don't know.

EDIT: If you check the myspace thread, Caylee seems to be wearing this same outfit - or one similar - in the photo of her standing in front of a Christmas tree. That photo appeared on a myspace page that someone created with a cryptical message about "Cay" returning home.

Thanks I found the picture and the pink shirt is pretty plain. The only detail I could see was a ruffle around the neck. I couldn't see the shorts pockets - so don't know if there was any detailing there.

 

[Bev]

Didn't CA tell LE that Lee was out of town on Father's day, KC wasn't home and she gave GA a card and a little something before she took Caylee and went to visit her parents - I seem to remember that LE asked CA if they did anything for Father's Day.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I don't see what difference it would make if KC and CA did have a fight on the 15th. I suppose the case could be made that it goes to motive but it doesn't change the evidence in any way. The only thing that could upset the apple cart on is insisting that the baby was killed on the 15th - it would make the LE's timeline off an entire day.

I agree. However, it wouldn't make sense for George to lie about seeing Caylee on the 16th at 12:50 because that pretty much proves that Casey was lying about dropping Caylee of with the nanny between 9 and 1. If he's lying for Casey, he's not doing her any favors.

Not that I believe Casey anyway, but who could not recall exactly what time they dropped their child off the last time they saw her? That is something that a mother would replay in their mind a thousand times.

 

[Hot Dogs]

In her written statement, did KC describe the same outfit that George described Caylee wearing on 6/15? Thanks in advance for sparing me the need to search through all the big document files on this computer to find out for myself. :blowkiss:

Yeah, she describes the same outfit (minus the backpack + sunglasses). But KC puts the date at 6/9, not 6/15...

 

[Bev]

I don't think it makes any sense for GA to lie either. There would be no point in it. I would bet that GA and CA went over and over that good bye that day and probably a lot earlier than in statements to the police in July and August.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I don't think it makes any sense for GA to lie either. There would be no point in it. I would bet that GA and CA went over and over that good bye that day and probably a lot earlier than in statements to the police in July and August.

That's what I think too. People are cynical about George recalling what Caylee and Casey were wearing that day, but he had a lot of time to reflect back and think about it before he was ever questioned by LE. It's not as if he just came up with it out of the blue at a moment's notice.

 

[KeysBreeze]

It's in his LE interview. He says he heard Caylee's voice when he talked on the phone with Casey at about 3:30 on the afternoon of the 16th. He also says that during a phone conversation on the 24th, he thought he heard Casey tell Caylee to get off the table. Later he said he wasn't sure about that event.

I have always thought she was telling a cat to get off the table. Why could Caylee be on a table? Cindy has two cats.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I have always thought she was telling a cat to get off the table. Why could Caylee be on a table? Cindy has two cats.

That was during the conversation on the 24th that Jesse later recanted. It could have been a cat. I think they have one cat, not two. Two little dogs, though.

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

I believe there was a fight on Sunday night when CA got home from visiting her father. She had spent a ton of time alone with Caylee that day and I can see her pumping Caylee for information.... "do you like Zanny??....does Zanny have any other kids at her house??".....and Caylee was able, at that age, to say, "No Zanny! I don't know Zanny!".

This is part of KC's problem (granted, she had tons of "problems" festering up to a big boil at that time). Caylee could articulate things now and was probably blowing her cover.

I'm sure CA came home quite pissed and she and KC got into it big time (poor Caylee witnessing the entire thing). I don't doubt CA taking off to cool down. KC probably put Caylee to bed in her room and hid out the rest of the night (GA wasn't home).

I think CA called KC in the morning probably because she felt awful about the fight and maybe said they needed to talk and figure things out.......what Caylee was saying isn't jiving with what you are saying, sweetheart!

KC said that she and GA were just starting to get along again. Maybe when she and Caylee got up in the morning, after CA had left for work, she told GA her side of the story and vented about the fight and GA gave her sympathy.

I tend to believe GA saw them leave for "work"....and that KC returned later to kill Caylee. She didn't want to have that talk with Cyndi when she got home later in the day and took off for TL's apartment.

 

[Bev]

So was the comment by KC in her statement, "I went someplace neutral" because they had had a fight the night before? There certainly is something missing that makes this picture incomplete.

 

[Chilly Willy]

So was the comment by KC in her statement, "I went someplace neutral" because they had had a fight the night before? There certainly is something missing that makes this picture incomplete.

That's such a strange statement. It appears that Casey left the Anthony home just before Cindy would have come home from work and caught her there. What time did Casey meet up with Tony that evening, and what did she do in the time between? Has that information been released?

 

[JWG]

6/16
1:00 AM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Shows Casey pinging at or near the Anthony house during the morning hours
3:08 AM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey call to AL
7:45 AM Casey Anthony cellphone records Call from Anthony House Phone that goes into Casey's VM

I have always found it telling that soneone at the Anthony house called KC's cellphone at 7:45 am. I suspect it was Cindy looking for Casey when she discovered she was NOT home with Caylee. I think George was just confused when he thought he saw them leave together on the 16th. They all originally thought the 9th, so how could he be sure on the 16th date? I think he was confused, not necessarly lying.

IMHO, the 7:45 AM call is KC looking for her phone. Here is the call in context:

6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Casey Voicemail
6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM INCOMING CALL Anthony Home Casey A.

I used to believe that she found the phone and immediately picked it up to call VM to see what messages she had. However, this pattern of two calls occurs frequently in the record:

• A first call from KC to voicemail
• A second call from some number to KC (usually from Cindy or the Anthony home)
• The first and second calls share the same time stamp and are the same duration
• No cell tower information is associated with either call

What this two-call pattern indicates is that KC's phone got a call from the second number that went to voicemail.

Almost always a third call follows about a minute later - a text message saying there is voicemail waiting.

The call the morning of the 16th has a duration of 1 second, so no substantive message was left, if any. No text message from voicemail is sent. Either KC found her phone as her call was going to VM, or perhaps she did not find the phone and simply ended the call as it went to VM. I am guessing the latter is what happened, because she does not use the phone for another hour.

IMHO...if Cindy was calling KC she would have left a message. This is her standard operating procedure when calling KC.

 

[Chilly Willy]

IMHO, the 7:45 AM call is KC looking for her phone. Here is the call in context:

6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Casey Voicemail
6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM INCOMING CALL Anthony Home Casey A.

I used to believe that she found the phone and immediately picked it up to call VM to see what messages she had. However, this pattern of two calls occurs frequently in the record:

• A first call from KC to voicemail
• A second call from some number to KC (usually from Cindy or the Anthony home)
• The first and second calls share the same time stamp and are the same duration
• No cell tower information is associated with either call

What this two-call pattern indicates is that KC's phone got a call from the second number that went to voicemail.

Almost always a third call follows about a minute later - a text message saying there is voicemail waiting.

The call the morning of the 16th has a duration of 1 second, so no substantive message was left, if any. No text message from voicemail is sent. Either KC found her phone as her call was going to VM, or perhaps she did not find the phone and simply ended the call as it went to VM. I am guessing the latter is what happened, because she does not use the phone for another hour.

IMHO...if Cindy was calling KC she would have left a message. This is her standard operating procedure when calling KC.

That makes good sense, and if correct, would show that Casey was indeed home on the morning of the 16th.

 

[JWG]

That makes good sense, and if correct, would show that Casey was indeed home on the morning of the 16th.

Yes...computer usage and Photobucket uploads support this as well.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Yes...computer usage and Photobucket uploads support this as well.

Thank you. I knew there was something I was forgetting when I tried to make my case for Casey being home that morning. IMO, there's just too much evidence that she was in the home to think otherwise.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks, Chilly. Because if KC's thefts from her grandparents were already old news to Cindy, then we don't know why -- or even if -- Cindy went into a rage when she got home and attempted to strangle KC. IIRC, we have only KC's words (to JG?) about Cindy's attack on her. And we know how "poor KC" loves telling tales of how abused she is by everyone.

Wouldn't it be ironic, if CA was actually telling the truth about the evening of June 15th but we're all assuming she's telling us yet another mis-truth...which is mis-leading us to focus on the wrong events/reasons for KC taking Caylee's life.

While I don't think that Cindy is telling the truth about this fight, we may not be be putting the grandparents' money into the proper context is all.

Even if she already knew about the stolen money...I believe Shirley will always be angry and hurt so she probably did bring it up again with Cindy that day and in turn questioned Cindy's capabilities as a parent. This would set the stage for Cindy to go into her defensive "me" mode and become enraged over the insult to her own ego. She takes it out on Casey and the fight turns very ugly with the battle of egos involved.

Could Cindy have said something to set things into motion for Casey to act on her plan? Sure. It is no stretch to believe that Cindy said and probably did some very horrible things during fights. It is when she loses control by trying to retain it.

 

[Chilly Willy]

While I don't think that Cindy is telling the truth about this fight, we may not be be putting the grandparents' money into the proper context is all.

Even if she already knew about the stolen money...I believe Shirley will always be angry and hurt so she probably did bring it up again with Cindy that day and in turn questioned Cindy's capabilities as a parent. This would set the stage for Cindy to go into her defensive "me" mode and become enraged over the insult to her own ego. She takes it out on Casey and the fight turns very ugly with the battle of egos involved.

Could Cindy have said something to set things into motion for Casey to act on her plan? Sure. It is no stretch to believe that Cindy said and probably did some very horrible things during fights. It is when she loses control by trying to retain it.

The neighbor's account of the fights he witnessed is quite different than what you're describing. He says that Cindy was very quiet and it was Casey doing all the ranting. What is your basis for saying that Cindy probably did very horrible things during fights?

 

[Bev]

Excellent work JWG.
Chilly, in a statement filled with odd comments, that "someplace neutral" really stands out. Does she mean if she went home she'd have to answer a bombardment of questions?

 

[Chilly Willy]

Excellent work JWG.
Chilly, in a statement filled with odd comments, that "someplace neutral" really stands out. Does she mean if she went home she'd have to answer a bombardment of questions?

I'm sure she would have, starting with, "Where's Caylee?" and followed by, "Why aren't you at work?"