Where Should Boulder Police Start?

[Ames]

Credit goes to Rashomon for this post over at FFJ....

-----------------------------------

"I've just watched the 22 p.m. news here in Germany - they have identified the source of the unkown DNA: it is a female worker employed in a firm where the cotton buds were packaged."

-----------------------------------------
From Ames...so they have confirmed that the source of the unknown DNA came from a female worker employed in a firm where the cotton buds were packaged. Hmmmm....so to all of you IDI's out there that believe that the Ramseys were completely in the clear because of that little bit of touch DNA that was found....don't start celebrating just yet.
__________________

 

[Maikai]

No DNA match to the new "touch DNA" they found? It bugs me that since DNA made it's "debut" people depend on it so much...yes it is EXTREMELY important but sometimes it is taken too literal. That DNA could have come from a lot of different places. WHY THE HELL weren't Patsy's clothes taken that day after she lay on JB? Surely her clothes would have intruder DNA on them? And John's clothes since he carried her upstairs? Isn't that called CSI 101? Bugs me.

Barry Scheck said the DNA is a problem. They found the same DNA under her nails, on at least one spot on her longjohns mixed with JBR's, and recently on the waistband. They tested everyone she had contact with, and no match.

I think in this case, the DNA is a big problem, and identifies the killer. There may be more that has not been tested...ie: on the cord..the rope...masking tape...cigarette butts(?).

 

[Sophie]

Barry Scheck said the DNA is a problem. They found the same DNA under her nails, on at least one spot on her longjohns mixed with JBR's, and recently on the waistband. They tested everyone she had contact with, and no match.

I think in this case, the DNA is a big problem, and identifies the killer. There may be more that has not been tested...ie: on the cord..the rope...masking tape...cigarette butts(?).

An issue here is that the DNA under JBR's nails may have been days old and she may have transferred it herself when fiddling around with her undies...

 

[rashomon]

Barry Scheck said the DNA is a problem. They found the same DNA under her nails, on at least one spot on her longjohns mixed with JBR's, and recently on the waistband. They tested everyone she had contact with, and no match.

I think in this case, the DNA is a big problem, and identifies the killer. There may be more that has not been tested...ie: on the cord..the rope...masking tape...cigarette butts(?).

IIRC, the DNA under her was too degraded to be compared.

 

[DeeDee249]

Barry Scheck said the DNA is a problem. They found the same DNA under her nails, on at least one spot on her longjohns mixed with JBR's, and recently on the waistband. They tested everyone she had contact with, and no match.

I think in this case, the DNA is a big problem, and identifies the killer. There may be more that has not been tested...ie: on the cord..the rope...masking tape...cigarette butts(?).

There was NO match between the fingernail DNA and anything else. There was never any usable DNA found under her nails, and what was taken was not a match to the DNA in her panties. This is yet another "rumor that is taken as fact" in the case- along with the "pubic hair" found on the blanket that proved to be an forearm hair from Patsy Ramsey. And the "unidentified palm print" found on the wineceller door that proved to belong to JR'd older daughter Melinda.

 

[Maikai]

There was NO match between the fingernail DNA and anything else. There was never any usable DNA found under her nails, and what was taken was not a match to the DNA in her panties. This is yet another "rumor that is taken as fact" in the case- along with the "pubic hair" found on the blanket that proved to be an forearm hair from Patsy Ramsey. And the "unidentified palm print" found on the wineceller door that proved to belong to JR'd older daughter Melinda.

Sorry, the DNA found in her panties and on the underwear matches. I'm not completely sure on the fingernails, if they had the complete DNA profile.......or just a partial. You may be right on that.

 

[Maikai]

NEW YORK — Crime scene DNA is typically recovered from blood or semen stains, but the DNA that exonerated members of JonBenet Ramsey's family came from invisible skin cells.

This so-called "touch DNA" is left behind when people touch things, because they naturally shed skin cells that contain the genetic material. In this case, the new DNA was recovered by guessing where JonBenet's killer might have handled the long johns she was wearing.

"It's not a stain, you can't see it," said Angela Williamson, director of forensic casework at Bode Technology Group in Lorton, Virginia. That's the company that recovered the new DNA material.

To find such DNA, "you have to have a good idea of where someone has been touched, or in this case, where you think the suspect would have touched" JonBenet's clothing, she said.

Investigators suggested that somebody pulling down her pants would have touched the waistband and the sides of the long johns, Williamson said. So Bode scientists scraped those areas with a sharp blade to see if they could find DNA.

While the amount of DNA they found was much less than would appear in a stain, there was enough that it was processed in the routine way for analysis, Williamson said. (In other cases, so-called "low copy number DNA" has to be processed in a different way).

DNA from two sites on the long johns matched genetic material from an unknown male that had previously been recovered from blood in JonBenet's underpants. The matching DNA from three places on two articles of JonBenet's clothing convinced the district attorney that it belonged to the killer, and hadn't been left accidentally by a third party.

Williamson said Bode has done thousands of touch DNA recoveries over at least three years.

John Ramsey found his daughter's body in the basement of the family's home in Boulder, Colorado, on Dec. 26, 1996. A child beauty queen, she was 6 and had been strangled.

 

[Ames]

Sorry, the DNA found in her panties and on the underwear matches. I'm not completely sure on the fingernails, if they had the complete DNA profile.......or just a partial. You may be right on that.

Dee Dee IS right...the DNA under JB's nails was DEGRADED, as was the DNA found on her panties.

 

[Maikai]

Dee Dee IS right...the DNA under JB's nails was DEGRADED, as was the DNA found on her panties.

There was enough to get a profile......it's the reason Lacy issued the letter to the Ramseys. The DNA matched on the panties and on the underwear. The nail DNA may have been degraded.

 

[BBB167893]

I know there are many who are convinced that the R's had something to do with JonBenet's death.

Darn right.

I think it is entirely unfounded. There is no historical precedence for this kind of behavior from either. Both were loving parents with no history of violence or aberrant behavior. I could go on, but won't.

If I had a nickel...

 

[BBB167893]

Source - John & Patsy Ramsey's Atlanta Interviews. Voice Levin:-

I'm suspect of anything Levin said. He was purposely putting false information out to the Ramseys.

He couldn't do that, Maikai. It's against the canons of ethics.

He also said the dark blue fibers in JBR's underwear were from JR's sweater--

Yup.

Lin Wood made a point of refuting that.

Offering absolutely no proof of his own. If that's your idea of refuting, we're ALL in big trouble. Besides, I wouldn't trust anything HE says as far as I can throw an elephant by the trunk.

 

[BBB167893]

There was enough to get a profile......

Only after the technology advanced enough to replicate enough of it. Ames is right.

it's the reason Lacy issued the letter to the Ramseys.

"reason?" Excuse, you mean.

 

[Maikai]

He couldn't do that, Maikai. It's against the canons of ethics.



Yup.



Offering absolutely no proof of his own. If that's your idea of refuting, we're ALL in big trouble. Besides, I wouldn't trust anything HE says as far as I can throw an elephant by the trunk.

He never offered proof that the fibers were from JR's sweater, and Lin Wood pounced on that by publically asking him for the proof....and Levin backed down. Levin was there to grandstand, because he knew he was being videotaped and the interview would be released publically.

 

[Barbara]

He never offered proof that the fibers were from JR's sweater, and Lin Wood pounced on that by publically asking him for the proof....and Levin backed down. Levin was there to grandstand, because he knew he was being videotaped and the interview would be released publically.

Actually, it was Lin Wood doing the grandstanding. He knew damn well that just because he DEMANDED to see the proof, LE is not allowed to give it to them outside of a court case, and since as you said, it was being videotaped and would be made public, this was done for those like yourself who would use that as proof that the whole thing was just made up by Levin.

Levin didn't "back down". He, as opposed to Wood in circumstances such as these, CAN'T just say "Okay, wait, I'll have all the lab reports faxed right over for you, your highness". He is not allowed and Lin Wood can ask or demand anything he wants. Not being accomodated doesn't mean they COULDN'T accomodate him, but it does make for good spin

 

[BBB167893]

Actually, it was Lin Wood doing the grandstanding. He knew damn well that just because he DEMANDED to see the proof, LE is not allowed to give it to them outside of a court case, and since as you said, it was being videotaped and would be made public, this was done for those like yourself who would use that as proof that the whole thing was just made up by Levin.

Levin didn't "back down". He, as opposed to Wood in circumstances such as these, CAN'T just say "Okay, wait, I'll have all the lab reports faxed right over for you, your highness". He is not allowed and Lin Wood can ask or demand anything he wants. Not being accomodated doesn't mean they COULDN'T accomodate him, but it does make for good spin

Much obliged, Barbara. You're my kind of lady.

 

[madeleine]

Don't rely on forensics (fibers,linguistics,DNA).Lee was right.It's too late for that and everything can be thrown out of court because of crime scene contamination.

Go back and interview all suspects,family,friends,pedo's,employees,...Someone knows.

This case can be solved,the killer can be cracked ,I am sure,you just have to ask the right questions.Waiting for a dna match or a death bed confession won't solve it.

But I guess I am talking to the walls...........

 

[turtle]

Don't rely on forensics (fibers,linguistics,DNA).Lee was right.It's too late for that and everything can be thrown out of court because of crime scene contamination.

Go back and interview all suspects,family,friends,pedo's,employees,...Someone knows.

This case can be solved,the killer can be cracked ,I am sure,you just have to ask the right questions.Waiting for a dna match or a death bed confession won't solve it.

But I guess I am talking to the walls...........

Who would be good to interview first? Who are your prime suspects now?

 

[madeleine]

Who would be good to interview first? Who are your prime suspects now?

I don't have any prime suspects anymore.As far as I am concerned clearing people based on alibis,handwriting and DNA was a huge mistake.That's the point,not enough info on anyone.And if there is info about someone it's not the right one maybe.

Do it by the book.Family,friends,employees,acquaintances first.Then you have the list of pedo's and sexual predators.Then re-check all the tips.

 

[turtle]

I don't have any prime suspects anymore.As far as I am concerned clearing people based on alibis,handwriting and DNA was a huge mistake.That's the point,not enough info on anyone.And if there is info about someone it's not the right one maybe.

Do it by the book.Family,friends,employees,acquaintances first.Then you have the list of pedo's and sexual predators.Then re-check all the tips.

Good thinking. They will never do it. Oh I would like to know more of the past history of some of those people.

 

[madeleine]

They will never do it.

I know................guess it's just wishful thinking.......