2009.06.22 Nancy Grace

[luvbeaches]

One reason would be a lack of evidence to support the charge, such as evidence that proves premeditation.

And the other would be that there's plenty of evidence to prove premeditation. I saw this first-hand in the Edwin Hall trial. Hall could have faced the DP, but he took the plea deal and part of this was the state dropped the DP. Florida will execute Casey (if convicted) and she and her attorneys know this. No one has been put to death since the mid-60's in Kansas, and even Hall took the deal.

I personally believe that a plea of LWOP will be offered and Casey will take it. I also believe that this won't happen until just prior to the trial.

 

[luvbeaches]

The jury will decide for themselves if there is a reasonable doubt that Casey intentionally harmed (via child abuse or murder) her daughter. There are many many people on death row with victims where the cause of death was unknown.

Scott Peterson for one.

 

[The World According]

I've not heard that the duct was put on while she was alive, only that it was allegedly put on before decomposition began.

Decomposition begins immediately, so yes that is what that means, she was alive and she likely suffered while Casey was having her fun with Tony. I think the duct tape especially layers of it was to make sure if she woke up from the drugs, no one would hear her crying in the trunk. The tattoo shop owner said she always seemed to be a good mother, what a shame that wasn't true. Dear God, that poor baby Caylee. I can't even allow myself to imagine how she felt.http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...l-caylee-anthony-autopsy-2,0,3085300.htmlpage Can someone help me know how to put someone on the ignore list?

 

[Wudge]

What about not reporting her missing for 31 days? That in itself is pure neglect, and considered child endangerment. Which I believe, would fall under the category of child abuse/neglect.

You are assuming she was alive. Child neglect does not apply to a corpse.

 

[panthera]

Decomposition begins immediately, so yes that is what that means, she was alive and she likely suffered while Casey was having her fun with Tony. I think the duct tape especially layers of it was to make sure if she woke up from the drugs, no one would hear her crying in the trunk. The tattoo shop owner said she always seemed to be a good mother, what a shame that wasn't true. Dear God, that poor baby Caylee. I can't even allow myself to imagine how she felt.

(bolding mine)

THANK YOU. :clap:

 

[Searchfortruth]

Scott Peterson for one.

Way less evidence with SP, coupled with no cause of death...still an easy conviction. Casey's case will have no differant outcome, unless it's LWOP. Still (and I don't think we have seen everything in this case either) there is so much evidence in this case, there's no way Casey will walk !

So, don't you worry about this trial Wudge, we'll get a conviction for you !

 

[The World According]

What is the evidence that proves premeditation beyond a reasonable doubt?

The searches on Casey's computer for chloroform, for one. The lying and not reporting her missing. Premeditation can be formed in an instant, just so we are clear,
there was evidence of chloroform in the trunk. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...l-caylee-anthony-autopsy-2,0,3085300.htmlpage

 

[static]

You are assuming she was alive. Child neglect does not apply to a corpse.

I think it would if your child has been taken and you do not report it. Instead you are out partying. If Casey was telling people that Caylee was alive(talking to her on the phone etc) then why did it take her so long to report it>? That is what I am trying to get at...when your child goes missing, unless you don't give a rat's a$$ you call the police.

 

[impatientredhead]

But you can't be found guilty of neglecting or endangering a child when they are already dead.

Correct, that is why the state dropped the neglect charge and filed the murder charge... being that the child she insisted was with the nanny those 31 days was dead.

 

[Elphaba]

There was a perfect restraint found WITH Caylee... something that some young mothers learn to use to soothe their crying child from birth, something I witnessed ER nurses and drs do when my screaming child needed stitches: papoose them in a blanket for better control. Papoosing soothes a child...

Caylee was screaming... Casey wrapped her up in the blanket and did what she felt she needed to do to remove Caylee from her life, so on went the duct tape. If the blanket showed any signs of urine and feces saturated into it, it could be considered proof that as any normal body does when the life is being squeezed out of them (defecation), Caylee's body followed that course. (Victims of strangulation/suffocation/and other various forms of being murdered, tend to see the body lose control of its bowels and bladder as the body fights to stay alive).

 

[MAMABEAR]

OK---she put the first piece of tape on just to shut her up---she had time to think about putting the second piece of tape (this is starting to look like child abuse to me)---then she reaches for a 3rd piece of tape---more time to think---oops---premeditated

 

[Wudge]

No, they're both capital crimes, but my point is that the duct tape seems to be the only evidence (so far revealed) that could possibly be used to show how Caylee may have died, but the way in which they'd have to use this evidence to prove felony murder would contradict any argument that it proves pre-meditated murder - which is what she is charged with.

Before a prosecutor can attempt to prove felony murder, a person must be charged with felony murder.

 

[The World According]

Way less evidence with SP, coupled with no cause of death...still an easy conviction. Casey's case will have no differant outcome, unless it's LWOP. Still (and I don't think we have seen everything in this case either) there is so much evidence in this case, there's no way Casey will walk !

So, don't you worry about this trial Wudge, we'll get a conviction for you !

Life without parole will probably end her life quicker than the death penalty, the jailed inmates will see to that. You can be sure they are not going to be any kinder to her than to any other baby killer. I think she would be protected somewhat on death row. Even George brought this street justice up to LE saying that he knows what goes on in prison to people who rape or kill kids. The grand jury handed down an indictment, even without the body. She wont take a plea because she and Jose are convinced she can beat this. They are wrong. Her only way out is if she manages to commit suicide which she will perceive as her getting the last word.

 

[Wudge]

I think it would if your child has been taken and you do not report it. Instead you are out partying. If Casey was telling people that Caylee was alive(talking to her on the phone etc) then why did it take her so long to report it>? That is what I am trying to get at...when your child goes missing, unless you don't give a rat's a$$ you call the police.

Never mistake questions for evidence.

 

[panthera]

Nancy's show is on again.

 

[panthera]

OK---she put the first piece of tape on just to shut her up---she had time to think about putting the second piece of tape (this is starting to look like child abuse to me)---then she reaches for a 3rd piece of tape---more time to think---oops---premeditated

Exactly, MAMABEAR! Putting the "layers upon layers" (quoting Nancy) on Caylee's head took time and methodically wrapping the tape. Placing it over her nose and mouth impaired breathing. If one is unable to breathe, one dies. Simple! MOO

 

[The World According]

But if the duct tape was used to murder Caylee then it wouldn't be classed as abuse. All murder is abusive to the victim, whether it be by stabbing, shooting, beating, hanging or whatever, so if the actual method of killing is also classed as aggravated abuse then all murders would automatically be felony murders - but they're not.

I am sure you mean well but you have a very poor understanding of these matters, and especially when decomposition begins, so your jumping off point is flawed.
Decomposing bodies start producing ammonia (NH3) in the lungs quite soon after death, and the ammonia diffuses outward through the nose and mouth. Ammonia is lighter than air, and it diffuses rapidly. The rate of production of ammonia decreases with time after death.

Within a few hours, depending on weather conditions, a body starts to produce heavier amines in its tissues, e.g., putrescine (1,4-diaminobutane), and cadaverine (1,5-diaminopentane). In the trunk of Casey's (no one else's...) car there was evidence of decomposition, they said the body was decomposing there for aprox 2 1/2 days. I do not mean to offend anyone. It is a level you to the floor smell that George and Cindy recognized immediately and seasoned homicide detectives agreed and all of this was before the lab tested the car. The jury won't need the dots to be any closer together to connect and make an inference. I promise you! I think the actual report may help you understand the cold hard facts here, respectfully. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...l-caylee-anthony-autopsy-2,0,3085300.htmlpage

 

[DAWN TREADER]

Good point Nancy, killer should NOT get a gold star because they are able to keep the body hidden for a length of time, long enough for decomposition to take place.

It is extremely disheartening that all that's left of this once vibrant two year old girl was a pile of bones, scattered teeth and her skull.

If there is a silver lining it's that Caylee's remains were found and carried out of the dark, vile, swamp like woods where she had been dumped like yesterday's garbage.

 

[Jolynna]

She could say, I just meant to shut her up. I thought she fell asleep, when I pulled over to get her out of the car, she wasn't sleeping she was dead. I was too scared to get help, I drove around not knowing what to do because I was terrified of my mother. The end.

"I had to use multiple layers of duct tape and cover up both her nose & mouth to get her to quiet down."

 

[Amil]

Multiple layers of duct tape over the mouth and nose. (Suffocation/silencing/staging). Premeditated Chloroform searches on the computer, then evidence of Chloroform in the trunk. Casey NEVER reported her daughter missing, was forced to admit Caylee was missing only when Cindy called 911 31 days after Caylee was last seen.

I think the 31 days is incorrect. I think it was 29 days or 33 days or something like that. 31 is what KC said, but it ain't so.