Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[SuziQ]

I'm bumping this up, because unfortunately I think there are legitimate reasons for what was in the syringe, including the chloroform. Believe me I would love for this to be a smoking gun. But I think the defense will shoot it down if they do some googling on the ingredients.

I am still looking (googled: chloroform, testosterone, ethanol and water).
Found this website, it has ALL 4 ingredients.

Revivogen Scalp Therapy for hair loss
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss-articles/362.htm

Snipped from website (bolded by me)...

2.3 Testosterone

Testosterone: [4-14C] testosterone (Amersham B76, 54 mCi/mmole, 2.35 nmole/epidermis). [4-14C] testosterone stock-solution was dissolved in ethanol and diluted in sterile water (1% ethanol final).

2.5 Extractions and analysis

Transepidermal diffusion assessment: the amount of testosterone that passed through the epidermal tissues was measured by liquid scintillation counting (LKB 1211 Rackbeta counter) of a fraction of culture medium.

Metabolism analysis: the steroid molecules from culture media were extracted by 2 volumes of chloroform/methanol (98:2) and dried. The various molecular species (testosterone metabolites) were separated by thin layer chromatography (TLC) on silica plates (RE/Silice, Whatman) in a solvent system containing dichloromethane, ethylacetate and methanol (85:15:3). The plates were autoradiographed and testosterone metabolites were quantified using a phosphorImager and specific software (Packard instrument).

 

[RR0004]

Another poster searched for all the ingredients in the Syringe and they are all found in a hairloss treatment. It's a few pages back.

...but then someone else explained what it all meant...chemically IIRC.

 

[Bittiness39]

My recall is that low testosterone is associated with hair loss.

I feel like I have fallen down the rabbit hole of all rabbit holes in this case. Maybe it is more through the looking glass darkly...but if this case were a puzzle...I would be drunk after putting a few pieces together and finally ban it to the shelf where it would collect dust. I would then just tell people the puzzle was cursed.

I think if the prosecution intends to use the Bottle/Syringe as evidence in trial they likely will have crossed all of their t's and dotted all of their i's. Otherwise, why use the evidence at all? Unless they haven't connected both the bottle and the syringe to KC. And LP just said on NG (now granted he was espousing an opinion not fact)that likely the FBI has more in relation to this evidence and is just letting it trickle out to the defense as they need to.

JB and his team have had this particular evidence for a while. At least a month, so they could have been squawking about this a while back. I think the trunk evidence (dead Caylee in KC's car trunk and tons of evidence of that) is going to be very hard to overcome in trying to blame someone else. While a dead child in the trunk of her mother's car doesn't prove premeditation it is still going to be hard to point the finger at anyone else. KC knew a dead Caylee was in her trunk. She was not protecting Caylee at this point because Caylee was dead.

 

[Just Jayla]

:waitasec:Something that does not make sense to me is that chloroform is used to put people out, usually by using a cloth/rag. Why was it in a syringe, was it mixed in something, somewhere else and saved in syringes?

If it was found in the syringe, I wonder if the lab tested the needle? Was there a needle attached or just the syringe? If the needle was attached then I would assume they could of found Caylee's DNA/Skin/Cells off the needle itself. Has that been reveled?

I also wonder if they ever found anything else that showed up chloroform? Something from the garage? Maybe even one of the gas cans? It had to be mixed somewhere and in something, so traces would have been left behind somewhere I would think. Or could that be why they found such high levels of it in the trunk? Maybe Casey mixed it in the trunk and then transfered it over into other bottles/containers/syringe and it spilled over time?...Just thinking out loud here today...not all here. Thanks to all that have shared their input.

Looks like the needle was tested, nothing:

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/1106/21539890.pdf

See pages 5/6 of pdf.

 

[OneLostGrl]

OK, question. If you injected someone w/ chloroform, would you get the same result.......render them unconscious? Or does it have to be inhaled and the syringe was for storage. ?

G0d! I'm still not getting this! Why not just give her a overdose of benadryl or something? I mean, chloroform?! Wtf, ya know?! Who thinks of that? there are so many easier ways to do it! Ok, let's cook up some chloroform. Also, I can't help but wonder if George was taking Testosterone.

 

[SuziQ]

...but then someone else explained what it all meant...chemically IIRC.

I'm still catching up. Can you point me to where? I need a boost. I was so disappointed when I discovered that there are legit reasons for that concoction. lol.

 

[notthatsmart]

Here is the info stating the duct tape at the remains site is the same as the duct tape in the gas can:

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/1106/21539890.pdf

Page 7-8 of the pdf.

Thats just the old report before the fabric analysys was done. The tape doesn't match.

 

[whisperOFwings]

Another poster searched for all the ingredients in the Syringe and they are all found in a hairloss treatment. It's a few pages back.

That was me, but someone corrected me, my bad.
But, the googles all came up the same...
Testosterone Replacement Therapy and/or Anabolic Steroids, and drugs of that nature.
Along with the other posters who found the same info I found.
(The exact links to my findings are on page 15 and 16....2 separate posts)

 

[Paladine]

Wonder if I may run something by ya'll and get some opinions....

GHB...

Extracting the goods

There are many options for this. This is still a work in progress, but after about 20 runs, I came to use this work up. You can use ethyl acetate (EtOAc), chloroform or methylene chloride (dichloromethane aka DCM) to perform the solvent extractions. I have normally used DCM as it's nice since the organic layer drops to the bottom of the separatory funnel.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/chemistry/chemistry/gaba2gbl.html

I have a great imagination, it can be my downfall, at times......but I wonder if she may have gotten chloroform from someone who used it to make GHB...just an idea...but I'm no chemist...THIS is why I post.......now, I listen...thanks...

 

[whisperOFwings]

I'm bumping this up, because unfortunately I think there are legitimate reasons for what was in the syringe, including the chloroform. Believe me I would love for this to be a smoking gun. But I think the defense will shoot it down if they do some googling on the ingredients.

This was already proven not to be it, sorry for the confusion.:blushing:
I was just posting everything that I could find, so someone with knowledge of this stuff could say yay or nay.:blushing:

 

[SuziQ]

That was me, but someone corrected me, my bad.
But, the googles all came up the same...
Testosterone Replacement Therapy and/or Anabolic Steroids, and drugs of that nature.
Along with the other posters who found the same info I found.
(The exact links to my findings are on page 15 and 16....2 separate posts)

So was the result of the sleuthing that the 4 ingredients together a legit product(s)? Or are we still looking at something sinister here? I can't forget the computer searches. However, there are easier and cheaper ways of killing someone than going to the trouble of making, storing and using the chloroform. I'm still trying to make sense of this.

ETA: I see you answered me in the above post. Thanks for the help though! I just don't want to get all excited over a smoking gun that really isn't a smoking gun.

 

[milliac]

I am laying bets on the defense trying to prove that Ricardo or Jesse use steroids. I am also hearing an echo of an IM KC sent regarding getting her personal training certification. While we know that's not true......she could have been spending time with somone currently into fitness / bodybuilding and borrowing from their life story. May explain where a syringe came from.

Hmmmmmm...wasn't it Chris S. or was that Iassan that she was IMing with about getting back to working out (TonE's apartment gym)? It sounded like he was into fitness.

 

[JBean]

So was the result of the sleuthing that the 4 ingredients together a legit product(s)? Or are we still looking at something sinister here? I can't forget the computer searches. However, there are easier and cheaper ways of killing someone than going to the trouble of making, storing and using the chloroform. I'm still trying to make sense of this.

I have not been able to read anything yet, but this is what I want to know. Have they tied this to Caylee and KC? or was it just in the area?

 

[trigger]

I've always thought that visit to JG for a 'shower' was a fishing expedition to remove or leave something implicating him...

I bet JG is saying today...oh boy she took my needles...Or another person saying that.

 

[RR0004]

I hate to disappoint, but what this paper is saying is not that this product contained these four ingredients. This is an analytical method that was developed to determine how a testosterone containing product was distributed transdermally and to see what metabolites were produced when it was used.
In their analysis, they took the product and dissolved it in ethanol. In order to extract the testosterone from the product, it had to be put into solution. They could have used just about any short-chain alcohol or other low molar mass polar solvent. Once the product was in solution they added a mixture of methanol and chloroform (probably in a separatory funnel) for extraction. The point of this is to dissolve the testosterone portion into one of the solvents while dissolving the other ingredients in the other solvent. Like compounds dissolve in like solvents...so you choose a solvent that is similar to the compound you want to isolate and another that isn't likely to dissolve that compound. The solvents are usually immiscible based on density or polarity so that they are easily separated by decantation (think oil and water). All they were doing in this method is isolating the testosterone...after extraction the solvents were either discarded, allowed to evaporate or separated by TLC.

Bumping this for good explanation (wish I understood!)...

 

[notthatsmart]

The report concludes only that the duct tape on Caylee could have come from the roll of duct tape that sourced the tape on the gas can, not that it did.

Wudge, it is also an old report before they compared the fabric. It even says in this report that it was moved to that place to have the fabric looked at.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Playing the "Devils" advocate is exactly what the defense loves.
Don't let em get ya
Here is what I do when I start to have doubts.

Pretend from "day 1" you knew about alllllll this evidence.
Going back to how Casey behaved, the attitude like she was on a picnic, where most parents would be hysterical, Hiding out from Ma and Pa for 31 days, misleading the police, the lies, including the Zanny lie, the body, the duct tape, the Whitney bag, the chloroform trail, the coffin flies, the computer searches, on and on.....

If you had known this all you would have said "guilty" day 1. It is only the trickle effect of information that makes you question and play the devil's game.
It's ok. your heart I am sure is in the right place. I can't say that about the about everyone here.

How this for devils advocate.

Casey wasn't frantic during that time but someone else sure. myspace blogs about "caylee missing". etc etc.

 

[sleutherontheside]

I have not been able to read anything yet, but this is what I want to know. Have they tied this to Caylee and KC? or was it just in the area?

In the near vicinity.

 

[Bittiness39]

I have not been able to read anything yet, but this is what I want to know. Have they tied this to Caylee and KC? or was it just in the area?

Nothing released today definitively ties KC/Caylee to either item. Speculation is (including LP on NG tonite) that likely the FBI/SA's office has more that will show a connection and will just let that information come out when necessary. Otherwise, I don't believe that they would use that evidence...unless they could tie it to KC/Caylee...or at the very least KC.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Bumping this for good explanation (wish I understood!)...

Well, it seems to me the report was quite specific in stating this testoserone that they found is a controlled substance. If it was part of the testing process I doubt they'd feel they needed to add that.