Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[lizzysf]

I have not been able to read anything yet, but this is what I want to know. Have they tied this to Caylee and KC? or was it just in the area?

Trunk, computer searches and dump site.. high probability.. direct links in a later doc dump hoped for

 

[carrie]

But did Casey know that? Interesting that pool shock was taken from the home too..

Didn't know pool shock was taken. Was it missing? or do you mean LE took it while executing the search warrant?

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? they said the liquid appeared to be possibly urine -- urine plus pool shock (chlorine) = chloroform ??? maybe ??

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have not been able to read anything yet, but this is what I want to know. Have they tied this to Caylee and KC? or was it just in the area?

Still nothing that convinces me that it was Casey that did it.

 

[RR0004]

I feel like I have fallen down the rabbit hole of all rabbit holes in this case. Maybe it is more through the looking glass darkly...but if this case were a puzzle...I would be drunk after putting a few pieces together and finally ban it to the shelf where it would collect dust. I would then just tell people the puzzle was cursed.

I think if the prosecution intends to use the Bottle/Syringe as evidence in trial they likely will have crossed all of their t's and dotted all of their i's. Otherwise, why use the evidence at all? Unless they haven't connected both the bottle and the syringe to KC. And LP just said on NG (now granted he was espousing an opinion not fact)that likely the FBI has more in relation to this evidence and is just letting it trickle out to the defense as they need to.

JB and his team have had this particular evidence for a while. At least a month, so they could have been squawking about this a while back. I think the trunk evidence (dead Caylee in KC's car trunk and tons of evidence of that) is going to be very hard to overcome in trying to blame someone else. While a dead child in the trunk of her mother's car doesn't prove premeditation it is still going to be hard to point the finger at anyone else. KC knew a dead Caylee was in her trunk. She was not protecting Caylee at this point because Caylee was dead.

...or died as a result of being placed in the trunk. We may not know how she died thanks to the 6 months she was exposed to the elements...but what we do know is that Caylee was last seen in "the care" of her mother who was the last person to be in possession of the car (prior to it being towed).

 

[OneLostGrl]

Didn't know pool shock was taken. Was it missing? or do you mean LE took it while executing the search warrant?

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? they said the liquid appeared to be possibly urine -- urine plus pool shock (chlorine) = chloroform ??? maybe ??

Take a look at the old chloroform thead, this has been discussed. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Imbackon]

I have no idea of all of these chemicals and such. My head hurts. Chemistry, etc was never my strong suit...though if the SA's can link the bottle of Gatorade and the syringe to KC...that would be awesome. If they can't it may become too much of a liability as a piece of evidence to present at trial. Too much to poke holes through.

I don't know if someone has responded to this. That is the only bummer about his format in fact, if you want to quote someone ya gotta do it right where you read it, and I don't want to go thru a 100 posts, just to come back and find where I want to quote but I digress....

This is all good, i see no liability at all.
BESIDES THEY DO HAVE EVIDENCE TO LINK THIS TO KC.
She is the only one with a dead daughter laying nearby, chloroform in her stinky car, and a home computer with searches on how to make chloroform.

 

[lizzysf]

Didn't know pool shock was taken. Was it missing? or do you mean LE took it while executing the search warrant?

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? they said the liquid appeared to be possibly urine -- urine plus pool shock (chlorine) = chloroform ??? maybe ??

LE took the pool shock. My verrrry first theory was drowning, pool shock, soaked diaper, urine created the Chloroform in the trunk.. last year.. tons of old discussion on here about that.
It is correct...but apparently experts say it would not create the toxic level of Chloroform found in the trunk.

 

[RR0004]

Well, it seems to me the report was quite specific in stating this testoserone that they found is a controlled substance. If it was part of the testing process I doubt they'd feel they needed to add that.

no...I was trying to explain the baldness therapy post...lol

 

[Imbackon]

My recall is that low testosterone is associated with hair loss.

I love bald men, they have high testoterone usually
.:blushing:

 

[lizzysf]

Part of the recipe for Chloroform calls for Household Bleach, or Pool Shock.. it's posted back in this thread.

 

[Melanie]

Wonder where she got the packaged syringe with needle attached ? It's not like you can just buy these at the drug store (well, unless you are a diabetic and she's not)...plus this does not look like an insulin syringe.

Nope it doesn't. Many diabetics nowadays use a "pen" -- where you dial in the amount of insulin, then screw a tiny 3ml needle atop (I do anyway). It looks like this was a syringe she could have been procured from Cindy?? I also need a script for my needles -- can't just buy them otc.

Just my .02

Mel

 

[Imbackon]

Nothing released today definitively ties KC/Caylee to either item. Speculation is (including LP on NG tonite) that likely the FBI/SA's office has more that will show a connection and will just let that information come out when necessary. Otherwise, I don't believe that they would use that evidence...unless they could tie it to KC/Caylee...or at the very least KC.

LP is so full of it, his eyes are brown. I never listen to anything he says anymore.

 

[notthatsmart]

Sounds like the lab technician used chloroform and ethenol to extract the testosterone. This is no smoking gun.

 

[Just Jayla]

Thats just the old report before the fabric analysys was done. The tape doesn't match.

I remember there was a new report that BC teased before it was released on 09/29/09, and the differences between the two involves cotton:

So here is the total difference between the three pieces of tape found at the crime scene and the tape on the gas can.

All three pieces of tape at the crime scene had the same thread count for both warp and weft (25 yarns/inch and 12 yarns/inch, respectively). And the tape on the gas can had the same count for both.

Microscopically they were all four the same EXCEPT FOR the double asterisk in the image above. All four had warp made of off-white poly (d) rd, but the tape on the gas can also had "off-white cotton", which was not noted on the three pieces at the crime scene.

and as Valhall noted:

But but but...the cotton wouldn't be there anymore.

Cotton strip assays are used to measure the microbial activity in soils. Cotton strips are buried and then dug up over a set amount of time and a measure of their "rottenness" is used to gauge the amount of microbial activity in the soil.

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/vro/vrosite.nsf/36ff1eef35fb658dca2567710003f883/0d11c3a3929a9309ca2574c8002b1091/$FILE/KING.pdf

Even in the pieces of the shirt that were found with Caylee...it was all gone except for some polyester pieces. I don't think this is going to be a big deal to argue past. Probably all three of the pieces of duct tape found at the crime scene originally had cotton fiber within the warp, but it decayed away. All the prosecution has to do is get a Henkel rep on the stand and ask...have you ever made 200 F duct tape out of warp without cotton content?

And when he answers....no, we haven't. That will solve that part (along with an expert that explains cotton appears to rot fairly quickly in microbial activity). And I would think next to a decaying corpse is about as microbial as you can get.

Thanks, Valhall, again!

 

[RR0004]

So was the result of the sleuthing that the 4 ingredients together a legit product(s)? Or are we still looking at something sinister here? I can't forget the computer searches. However, there are easier and cheaper ways of killing someone than going to the trouble of making, storing and using the chloroform. I'm still trying to make sense of this.

ETA: I see you answered me in the above post. Thanks for the help though! I just don't want to get all excited over a smoking gun that really isn't a smoking gun.

I don't think we'll know the connection until someone can explain why testosterone was involved. I'm thinking she used a "used" syringe to prepare something...but until we know who was using it (IMO steroids), we don't know very much.

 

[Wudge]

I feel like I have fallen down the rabbit hole of all rabbit holes in this case. Maybe it is more through the looking glass darkly...but if this case were a puzzle...I would be drunk after putting a few pieces together and finally ban it to the shelf where it would collect dust. I would then just tell people the puzzle was cursed.

I think if the prosecution intends to use the Bottle/Syringe as evidence in trial they likely will have crossed all of their t's and dotted all of their i's. Otherwise, why use the evidence at all? Unless they haven't connected both the bottle and the syringe to KC. And LP just said on NG (now granted he was espousing an opinion not fact)that likely the FBI has more in relation to this evidence and is just letting it trickle out to the defense as they need to.

JB and his team have had this particular evidence for a while. At least a month, so they could have been squawking about this a while back. I think the trunk evidence (dead Caylee in KC's car trunk and tons of evidence of that) is going to be very hard to overcome in trying to blame someone else. While a dead child in the trunk of her mother's car doesn't prove premeditation it is still going to be hard to point the finger at anyone else. KC knew a dead Caylee was in her trunk. She was not protecting Caylee at this point because Caylee was dead.

Counselor, with total respect, fall back on what flowed to you when you were in law school. Fairly assess the evidence against our legal standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Don't let your emotions substitute for missing evidence.

Time and time again over the past eightteen years, I have posted against high-profile cases where the vast majority of posters in crime forums or on bulletin boards (early days of the web) kept trying to curve fit evidence to a preconceived notion of guilt, and there are a staggering number of cases where they eventually found they were wrong all along.

Some of the cases that come to mind are: the infamous ‘Little Rascals’ day-care, sexual abuse trials of Bob Kelly and Dawn Wilson (separate trials) [wrongfully convicted … all charges dropped in 1997] ... Richard Jewell in the Olympic park bombing case ... Steve and Marlene Aisenberg in the kidnapping case of their daughter, baby Sabrina ... John and Patsy Ramsey in the murder case of their daughter, JonBenet Ramsey ... Nancy Smith’s and Joseph Allen’s trial for sexual abuse of children she drove to school [wrongfully convicted] ... Sandra Murphy and Rick Tabish’s trial for the murder of Ted Binion [wrongfully convicted] ... Cynthia Sommer’s trial for the murder of her husband, Todd Sommer [wrongfully convicted] ... Cynthia George’s trial for conspiracy to commit murder, Jeffrey Zach [wrongfully convicted] ... Gary Condit in the murder case of Chandra Levy ... Kevin Jones’ trial for the murder of his girlfriend, Nona Dirksmeyer [acquitted] ... Steven Hatfill in the Justice Department’s anthrax case ... Scott Hornoff’s trial for the murder of his mistress, Victoria Cushman [wrongfully convicted] ... Andrea Yates’ first trial for the deaths (by drowning) of her five children [wrongfully convicted] ... Robert Blake’s trial for the murder of his girlfriend, Bonnie Lee Bakely [acquitted] ... Carolyn June Peak’s trial for the murder of her husband, Wyatt Earp Peak [wrongfully convicted of 2nd degree murder] ... Deanna Laney’s trial for the murders (stoned them to death) of her two children [acquitted by reason of insanity] ... Richard Ricci in the kidnapping case of Elizabeth Smart ... Mark Lunsford in the kidnapping and murder case of his daughter, Jessica Lunsford ... Sal and Mabel Mangano’s trial for the thirty-five drowning deaths at their St. Rita Nursing Home [acquitted] ... Louise Woodward’s trial (Au Pair) for the death of Matthew Eappen [wrongfully convicted of 2nd degree murder] ... John Mason in the runaway bride case of Jennifer Wilbanks ... Gerry and Kate McCann in the kidnapping case of their daughter, Madeline McCann ... and Reade Seligman, Collin Finnerty and David Evans in the Duke lacrosse rape case.

My experience is that a biased assessment of evidence does produce a 'through the looking glass experience', and also often provides a dark rabbit hole for the person who holds the bias.

FWIW

 

[RR0004]

Sounds like the lab technician used chloroform and ethenol to extract the testosterone. This is no smoking gun.

Well...I'm glad someone is using my words...but the liquid mixture was in the bottle.

 

[RR0004]

Counselor, with total respect, fall back on what flowed to you when you were in law school. Fairly assess the evidence against our legal standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Don't let your emotions substitute for missing evidence.

Time and time again over the past eightteen years, I have posted against high-profile cases where the vast majority of posters in crime forums or on bulletin boards (early days of the web) kept trying to curve fit evidence to a preconceived notion of guilt, and there are a staggering number of cases where they eventually found they were wrong all along.

Some of the cases that come to mind are: the infamous ‘Little Rascals’ day-care, sexual abuse trials of Bob Kelly and Dawn Wilson (separate trials) [wrongfully convicted … all charges dropped in 1997] ... Richard Jewell in the Olympic park bombing case ... Steve and Marlene Aisenberg in the kidnapping case of their daughter, baby Sabrina ... John and Patsy Ramsey in the murder case of their daughter, JonBenet Ramsey ... Nancy Smith’s and Joseph Allen’s trial for sexual abuse of children she drove to school [wrongfully convicted] ... Sandra Murphy and Rick Tabish’s trial for the murder of Ted Binion [wrongfully convicted] ... Cynthia Sommer’s trial for the murder of her husband, Todd Sommer [wrongfully convicted] ... Cynthia George’s trial for conspiracy to commit murder, Jeffrey Zach [wrongfully convicted] ... Gary Condit in the murder case of Chandra Levy ... Kevin Jones’ trial for the murder of his girlfriend, Nona Dirksmeyer [acquitted] ... Steven Hatfill in the Justice Department’s anthrax case ... Scott Hornoff’s trial for the murder of his mistress, Victoria Cushman [wrongfully convicted] ... Andrea Yates’ first trial for the deaths (by drowning) of her five children [wrongfully convicted] ... Robert Blake’s trial for the murder of his girlfriend, Bonnie Lee Bakely [acquitted] ... Carolyn June Peak’s trial for the murder of her husband, Wyatt Earp Peak [wrongfully convicted of 2nd degree murder] ... Deanna Laney’s trial for the murders (stoned them to death) of her two children [acquitted by reason of insanity] ... Richard Ricci in the kidnapping case of Elizabeth Smart ... Mark Lunsford in the kidnapping and murder case of his daughter, Jessica Lunsford ... Sal and Mabel Mangano’s trial for the thirty-five drowning deaths at their St. Rita Nursing Home [acquitted] ... Louise Woodward’s trial (Au Pair) for the death of Matthew Eappen [wrongfully convicted of 2nd degree murder] ... John Mason in the runaway bride case of Jennifer Wilbanks ... Gerry and Kate McCann in the kidnapping case of their daughter, Madeline McCann ... and Reade Seligman, Collin Finnerty and David Evans in the Duke lacrosse rape case.

My experience is that a biased assessment of evidence does produce a 'through the looking glass experience', and also often provides a dark rabbit hole for the person who holds the bias.

FWIW

I know you realize that we are all members. I hate seeing all the good work here being denigrated.

 

[lizzysf]

Waiting to see if:

1. Fingerprints on the outside of the Gatorade bottle
2. The syringe links to Gentiva by lot number on syringe
3. The syringe links to George by lot number at his pharmacy
4. George to be proven on Testosterone injections and rx tracked to his pharmacy.
5. RM, JG or other likely fallguy admits to anabolic steroid use and was missing a used syringe.
6. DNA on mouth of bottle..(per Wonders post)


any other links that could be scooped here?

 

[wonders]

The bottle that the syringe was in had a cap screwed on as it still had liquid in it. So if someone drank from it (KC?) before the murder was done then I am hoping there will be DNA on the mouth of the bottle. KWIM?