KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #2

[eyestowardHeaven]

Oh heavens no, Rita - there's no way at all that you offended me. I can only try to imagine how frustrated you all must be. My heart aches for all of you. And if any other ideas pop into my head - yes, I'll post them.

Ok, thank you!

 

[dsntslp]

I found a lot (too many)of red duallys in Topeka and other cities surrounding Holton. Do we have any more identifying info on the truck other than color? If this is something LE is not releasing I understand.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

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I'm glad you guys are giving law enforcement the benefit of the doubt. So many people bash them. They don't have a lot of experience w/ kidnappings/ kidnappings gone wrong or whatever this is. They all have to want to do a good job, I'm sure. People, strangers (like me), all over the place are wrapped up in this case so you KNOW the local PD feel for this family and want to help.

And, as another poster said, what if none of this has anything to do with it? Well... we can't even entertain that thought for a second because all any of us can go by is the little information we have and everyone has to hang on to that for hope that something will pan out.

Still looking for red trucks that match that description everywhere in Topeka! If I see one, I will try for a tag with everything I've got. Weird though- I haven't seen any... and when this all started I was telling myself that they were probably very common. (guess not anymore)

Yes, I know LE are very invested in this - we all worked together years ago, and they were involved somewhat when Tony & Michele's daughter passed away, so they have said WE WILL SOLVE THIS FOR YOU. KBI and some of the Major Case Squad detectives are still working on this - I just think at this point, there is less that they are telling us, and that's ok. In my heart, I do feel that this will be solved, but when you are holding out that tiniest hope that this person you love is still alive, every day that goes by makes you completely crazy.

When we first heard about this truck, we thought the opposite: oh, there can't be that many red duallys out there, but oh man - there are a lot. I went to Topeka on Sunday and passed three of them.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Rita, do you know if rental car agencies were checked for at least a 100 mile radius to see if one of them has a red dually that is available for rental? It may not be at a given location if it is being rented at the time, it could be anywhere in the state, however the companies would keep record of what vehicles they rent out, the makes and models.

Also, just throwing this theory out there. Would it be possible the person who abducted Pat had parked down the road where the second crime scene was and somehow contained your mother enough to walk from the house to the second crime scene. Possibly at the second crime scene she regained some "composure" (lack of a better term, if she was "subdued somehow prior) and was able to put up a fight when she knew they were putting her inside a truck?

I don't know about the rental agencies. We had wondered if this person borrowed a vehicle or what...surely, if the vehicle was their own, you'd think they'd have it in hiding now and driving something different.

I don't think this guy could or would risk walking her that far down the road, past two houses, and one family was obviously at home. If they parked there, there's no place to hide. They would have to have just pulled off the side of the road. Which is possible, but you'd think again they wouldn't want to risk being seen sitting there.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

I found a lot (too many)of red duallys in Topeka and other cities surrounding Holton. Do we have any more identifying info on the truck other than color? If this is something LE is not releasing I understand.

No, and actually what we have put out is that it is a red OR dark-colored dually. Not 100% sure that it is red.

 

[raeann]

I found a lot (too many)of red duallys in Topeka and other cities surrounding Holton. Do we have any more identifying info on the truck other than color? If this is something LE is not releasing I understand.

I am assuming that you mean on car lots and otherwise listed for sale. Is there any way to narrow down to which ones have been listed since Nov. 6th or later?

 

[dsntslp]

I am assuming that you mean on car lots and otherwise listed for sale. Is there any way to narrow down to which ones have been listed since Nov. 6th or later?

I don't know of a way to go backwards on Craigslist once the ads are pulled, that's why I thought maybe I could take screenshots of current ones in hopes the ad's were still up and had not been removed. I can go back to the missing date but I am sure there is a possibility that the truck in question, if it had an ad it has been removed. I am sorry, that is confusing.

With the regular newspapers I can pull papers for the dates in question or the week before in archives. We may also check "the way back machine". They say on the internet nothing is ever truly gone so...

 

[dsntslp]

If it was a test drive it would have to have been listed Nov. 6th or before in order to have time to set up the test drive.

^Oh, that's what you said too just differently, apologies.

 

[beerslinger]

i've been keeping up reading the thread and my thoughts are with you guys. just a random thought here. most people i know with duallys have horses or cattle and pull a trailer occasionally. have you checked with local vets and farm supply stores to see if the clerks or workers can think of someone with a dually who is a little "off?" (although here in northeast ks, i am aware we have more than our fair share of people that are "off."

 

[dsntslp]

i've been keeping up reading the thread and my thoughts are with you guys. just a random thought here. most people i know with duallys have horses or cattle and pull a trailer occasionally. have you checked with local vets and farm supply stores to see if the clerks or workers can think of someone with a dually who is a little "off?" (although here in northeast ks, i am aware we have more than our fair share of people that are "off."

Or a large camper...did anyone just leave for the winter in a large camper being pulled by a dually that fits the description. Perfect timing to head South for the winter right? Beginning of Nov.

 

[beerslinger]

wish we knew whether it was a newer or an older model. the cowboy Cadillac type or an older beater would tell us more about the owner, i think

 

[bowmancabin]

I found a lot (too many)of red duallys in Topeka and other cities surrounding Holton. Do we have any more identifying info on the truck other than color? If this is something LE is not releasing I understand.

I don't know how to post a link to the article but there was something on wibw.com that said "vehicle of interest..a late 90's to early 2000 model, large, dark or red colored, dual wheeled pickup, maybe a Dodge"

 

[dsntslp]

I don't know how to post a link to the article but there was something on wibw.com that said "vehicle of interest..a late 90's to early 2000 model, large, dark or red colored, dual wheeled pickup, maybe a Dodge"

http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/70002692.html

To post a link:

place your cursor on the address bar and click to highlight, right click, click copy

now go to the place you want to drop the link into and

place your cursor where you want the link to appear and click,

now right click, click on paste.

 

[LLady]

Is it possible that Pat thought it was someone from the church, wasn't alarmed by them coming up the drive way. Got up to answer the door to find out it wasn't.

I guess I am just having a hard time thinking that it could be someone from around here.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Is it possible that Pat thought it was someone from the church, wasn't alarmed by them coming up the drive way. Got up to answer the door to find out it wasn't.

I guess I am just having a hard time thinking that it could be someone from around here.

We wondered this too, did she hear the loud truck and think it was one of us? All of us have 4x4's, they're all loud. Did she mistake the truck for being someone she THOUGHT she knew? When I think of all the little things I know of that showed how cautious she was, I still think she would have looked out the window first before opening the door. But...I don't know. What are the odds that the ONE time she opens the door to someone she doesn't know, it's to someone who's there to abduct her?

She didn't grab her phone, that still stumps me. I don't want it to be someone we know either, someone from around here. The hat, though, has to be somewhat local. Some random criminal traveling thru the state is not going to have a hat from Sabetha.

I think statistically, crimes against women are committed most often by men they know.

 

[Texas Mist]

i've been keeping up reading the thread and my thoughts are with you guys. just a random thought here. most people i know with duallys have horses or cattle and pull a trailer occasionally. have you checked with local vets and farm supply stores to see if the clerks or workers can think of someone with a dually who is a little "off?" (although here in northeast ks, i am aware we have more than our fair share of people that are "off."

I saw a dually this morning (which happened to be a burgundy king cab Chevy) on my way to work & it made me think of the posts here.

This dually had a smallish gooseneck trailer (12-15ft maybe?) that had logos for a roofing company.

Maybe the dually of interest seen in the area didn't belong to a farmer or rancher but a construction company.

Just wanted to toss that out there as something else to consider.

 

[dreamweaver]

I saw a dually this morning (which happened to be a burgundy king cab Chevy) on my way to work & it made me think of the posts here.

This dually had a smallish gooseneck trailer (12-15ft maybe?) that had logos for a roofing company.

Maybe the dually of interest seen in the area didn't belong to a farmer or rancher but a construction company.

Just wanted to toss that out there as something else to consider.

===
And if a business truck, might be licensed under
business vehicle, under OK DMV.
Do they break down the color of vehicles at DMV?

 

[LogicalMinds]

Rita...I still feel it is very important to check out any possible people you "don't" know..
tradespeople, repairpeople...salespeople in the area...

the "hay/straw" guy for instance

someone that maybe Pat "knew"...not well, but well enough to open the door

maybe someone she knew who also knows the Dad, or is connected to a friend or a friend of a friend....(back to the idea of a man angry to see a divorced woman doing well on her own)....some tradesman who has a drinking/drug problem...

I keep thinking back to the year of our (rental) neighbor...the "bad handyman" who became increasingly demanding...like wanting to pressure clean or whatever on HIS terns when he wanted to buy a 12 pack or some pot

maybe someone who came to the door and said "let me sell you hay" or let me repair your xyz ...and if Pat said no thanks...and if pressured said "I didn't like your (product/service) they "went off" on her?

Or....like others have said...it could even be a trusted neighbor/friend/church goer with a dark side...who knows what people hide??

but...just to be sure I would really check out that hay guy, also check her reciepts, her transactions...who did she deal with that you didn't know?? Yes, she "told" you everything, but maybe some small matters were not interesting or important enough to mention....??

Hoping and praying that you get some resolution here

 

[cleo612]

Oh, I hope I did not offend you, I don't mean for you to think it is a useless idea. I was more rambling about how hopeless it seems to suspect everyone and not be able to narrow things down very quickly. Even w/ the evidence we have - the money clip and camo hat - I have no idea who in our church might have those items. The camo hat is not something one would usually wear into church. The only person who drives a truck like that (who we as a family did not suspect in the first place) has been officially ruled out.

We are sooooooooo frustrated right now. If she didn't suspect this person of doing harm to her and opened the door to them, how will we? It makes me crazy.

We truly appreciate everyone's ideas, so don't hesitate to throw them out there.

Bolded by me...

Rita, is it possible that this "person who drives a truck like that" might have loaned the truck to a friend or family member, and because it was someone close to them they are hesitant to give this information to law enforcement?

In other words, were the person and the truck alibied as being together during the critical time period in question?

Just because this person has an alibi (or, rather, "has been officially ruled out") does not automatically preclude his/her vehicle from having been involved.

 

[harleysmom]

Even though we all think we "know" eachother when we live in a small area, there are alot of things people keep secret. I once had a friend who was leaving her abusive husband and he did not like it that I supported her, he called me and said..."In order for the wound to heal...you have to get rid of the bullet...and you're the bullet." Then he would drive by my house when he knew my husband was at work. My husband and my brother in law set him straight...and it stopped. However, in hindsight, we should have reported him. I still think we need to look local, and unfortunately not trust very many.