KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #2

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I know this is probably going to sound goofy, but in all the "mysteries" we see on television, it is ALWAYS the one "nobody would suspect", again reinforcing the thought that it is probably local...and this person may even have been "trying to help" in the search, rule out no one...people can be twisted individuals, and it would take someone like that to put your mom and all of you through this
 
Rita...I still feel it is very important to check out any possible people you "don't" know..
tradespeople, repairpeople...salespeople in the area...

the "hay/straw" guy for instance

someone that maybe Pat "knew"...not well, but well enough to open the door

maybe someone she knew who also knows the Dad, or is connected to a friend or a friend of a friend....(back to the idea of a man angry to see a divorced woman doing well on her own)....some tradesman who has a drinking/drug problem...

I keep thinking back to the year of our (rental) neighbor...the "bad handyman" who became increasingly demanding...like wanting to pressure clean or whatever on HIS terns when he wanted to buy a 12 pack or some pot

maybe someone who came to the door and said "let me sell you hay" or let me repair your xyz ...and if Pat said no thanks...and if pressured said "I didn't like your (product/service) they "went off" on her?

Or....like others have said...it could even be a trusted neighbor/friend/church goer with a dark side...who knows what people hide??

but...just to be sure I would really check out that hay guy, also check her reciepts, her transactions...who did she deal with that you didn't know?? Yes, she "told" you everything, but maybe some small matters were not interesting or important enough to mention....??

Hoping and praying that you get some resolution here

There are very few people she dealt with that we don't know - that is the problem. My brothers and husband helped in some way w/ all the things she needed help with over the last couple of years. The hay guy will be the last person I can think of that I don't know very well (although my brothers know him somewhat). It's starting to feel like we have to suspect EVERYONE...and how do you even begin ruling people out then? The dually pickup though...there aren't that many of them owned by people we know around and very few that fit the color desccription.

I'm going to go thru the Sabetha phone book today and probably spend part of Saturday just driving around that area.

We have gone thru all her bank records, check registers, bank box, and file cabinets. There isn't anything that seems unusual. We haven't been able to see her phone records or information from her computer - LE has it.

UUUUUHHHHHH. I don't understand. I can't figure out what we're not seeing here. I keep pleading with God to let us see something and at the beginning of every day, asking that TODAY will be the day she comes home.
 
Bolded by me...

Rita, is it possible that this "person who drives a truck like that" might have loaned the truck to a friend or family member, and because it was someone close to them they are hesitant to give this information to law enforcement?

In other words, were the person and the truck alibied as being together during the critical time period in question?

Just because this person has an alibi (or, rather, "has been officially ruled out") does not automatically preclude his/her vehicle from having been involved.

I will check on that. Knowing the kind of person he is, I think he would have told LE immediately that he had loaned it out. We were only told that the vehicle description was similiar to this person's truck and then found out that he had been questioned for a couple hours - so I don't think he would have held that back but I will double check. I do know that they searched his truck.
 
Even though we all think we "know" eachother when we live in a small area, there are alot of things people keep secret. I once had a friend who was leaving her abusive husband and he did not like it that I supported her, he called me and said..."In order for the wound to heal...you have to get rid of the bullet...and you're the bullet." Then he would drive by my house when he knew my husband was at work. My husband and my brother in law set him straight...and it stopped. However, in hindsight, we should have reported him. I don't know how to pm you, that is the reason I haven't done it. I still think we need to look local, and unfortunately not trust very many.

That is a very logical scenario, but there's no one in a situation like that, that we know of. Her friends have been questioned by LE, and by us a couple of times. There wasn't anything w/ them that we ever suspected in the first place, but nothing more has come out.
 
I know this is probably going to sound goofy, but in all the "mysteries" we see on television, it is ALWAYS the one "nobody would suspect", again reinforcing the thought that it is probably local...and this person may even have been "trying to help" in the search, rule out no one...people can be twisted individuals, and it would take someone like that to put your mom and all of you through this

I know...that is in the back of our minds all the time. It makes you feel really bad, but we look at almost every person now w/ suspicion. Especially in those first days of searching, we were overwhelmed and truly amazed at all the people helping, but we kept thinking, "Is HE out here? Has he been back? Have I maybe even shaken his hand or thanked him for what he's doing?" It makes you CRAZY.
 
Is there any services around there that offer auto painting? What if whoever owned the dually had the truck repainted a different color?

Also, i know i've asked this before and i apologize, as i forget.. were LE able to get any tire tracks from the dually? If LE can find out what brand and type/size tires were on it from the different tread marks it can help narrow down the dually search a great deal. I believe in another case, (not sure which one, it was awhile ago) LE actually was able to catch a culprit since they had imprints of the 4 tires, and one of them was different than the other 3, thus narrowing it down.
Even if LE just got a print of one tire, it could help narrow down the search a great deal. If they know what kind of tire it was, and possibly could tell how worn (if worn out) maybe the perp got his tires changed someplace. To change tires on a dually one either has to have their own car lift, hydraulic jack, or go somewhere to get it done, they are heavy trucks!

Is it a fact that the dually is red? Unless it was custom paint, the auto companies usually just have the specific stock colors different years.

Around here sometimes landscapers, or anyone who may need to tow something (boats, trailers, equip) sometimes drives a dually. A lot more common when i lived down south; a lot of people used them to tow their boats. Up north here, i see a lot of landscapers use them.

If the dually was lent out to someone, and maybe the person driving it wasn't the original owner.. what if someone "stole" the dually without the original owner knowing, say for example a friend of the original owner, and maybe the owner wasn't home or was away and the friend knew where the keys were and just took it?
Although i'm sure if this happened and was taken into consideration, LE would have had forensics in the truck.
 
Is there any services around there that offer auto painting? What if whoever owned the dually had the truck repainted a different color?

Also, i know i've asked this before and i apologize, as i forget.. were LE able to get any tire tracks from the dually? If LE can find out what brand and type/size tires were on it from the different tread marks it can help narrow down the dually search a great deal. I believe in another case, (not sure which one, it was awhile ago) LE actually was able to catch a culprit since they had imprints of the 4 tires, and one of them was different than the other 3, thus narrowing it down.
Even if LE just got a print of one tire, it could help narrow down the search a great deal. If they know what kind of tire it was, and possibly could tell how worn (if worn out) maybe the perp got his tires changed someplace. To change tires on a dually one either has to have their own car lift, hydraulic jack, or go somewhere to get it done, they are heavy trucks!

Is it a fact that the dually is red? Unless it was custom paint, the auto companies usually just have the specific stock colors different years.

Around here sometimes landscapers, or anyone who may need to tow something (boats, trailers, equip) sometimes drives a dually. A lot more common when i lived down south; a lot of people used them to tow their boats. Up north here, i see a lot of landscapers use them.

If the dually was lent out to someone, and maybe the person driving it wasn't the original owner.. what if someone "stole" the dually without the original owner knowing, say for example a friend of the original owner, and maybe the owner wasn't home or was away and the friend knew where the keys were and just took it?
Although i'm sure if this happened and was taken into consideration, LE would have had forensics in the truck.

There are a few places locally that do auto body work, but this is such a small rural area, I would think they would notify LE if a dually came in, but on the off chance - I will check. If they had the idea to do so, they probably went further than our local businesses, I bet.

I don't think they were able to get tire tracks.

It is not a sure thing that the dually is red. LE officially released "red or dark-colored dually". I believe the description was given as red, but LE said that red is the hardest color to identify at night.
 
It might be a good idea--just in case there is/was any possible connection--- if you could ask your local LE people to check into this case in Oklahoma. It reminded me so much of your mother's case. WARNING....the 911 call will be upsetting to hear.

jmoo


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/09/earlyshow/main5949873.shtml


Here is another link with the whole 30 minute 911 call......the creepy thing is the woman says the intruder was banging on the door and yelling out the name "Pat" as he tried to get inside her house!

http://newsok.com/woman-shoots-and-kills-intruder-in-lincoln-county/article/3422498
 
Her cell phone bill should be in the mail. Mine list all calls made and recieved, the time, where the person is calling from, where Im calling from. Look at all the calls made that day and the week before, even if you know the person ask them why they called.

I never open the door for strangers, even to answer it, unless they are carrying a bible and very old, or kids selling stuff. If it is someone I "know", Im on the phone telling someone else that so and so is here.

That being said if she kind of thinks like me, I dont think she walked out of her house and left the door open, even if it was to water plants or whatever. I dont think she was letting the dog in or out, because my dog follows me in or out, I think her dog would act the same way. I think she went outside, made the dog stay in, because she knew the person or no threat was seen.

I hope you can get her cell phone bill and see if maybe someone called her that day or the day/week before, and she knew they where going to stop by. Maybe to return or borrow something. Maybe they had some mail for her or something to sign? Did she buy fund raiser things, like popcorn, candles, cookies, books?

Last, my husband has and sometimes drives a red dually late 90s ford. Around here duallys are common. Look for auctions in your area and go post fliers there, I think one might be comming up in Washington soon. I think the hat, with the clip, and the truck should give someone, somewhere a clue as to who this is.
 
After more research and reading the comments at the second link which I posted above....it is pretty clear that there is no relation to this other case, other than the similarity of someone coming to the home of a lady alone in a rural area at night. The whole case is quite interesting though, as the man who broke in was drunk, had been in a car accident, and was seeking help for his sister "Pat" who was incapacitated in the car due to a variety of circumstances. He refused to stop bashing in the lady's door, and she had no choice but to defend herself, as he was screaming and cursing and refused to identify himself or even say what he wanted.
 
After more research and reading the comments at the second link which I posted above....it is pretty clear that there is no relation to this other case, other than the similarity of someone coming to the home of a lady alone in a rural area at night. The whole case is quite interesting though, as the man who broke in was drunk, had been in a car accident, and was seeking help for his sister "Pat" who was incapacitated in the car due to a variety of circumstances. He refused to stop bashing in the lady's door, and she had no choice but to defend herself, as he was screaming and cursing and refused to identify himself or even say what he wanted.

I just saw that his sister's name is Patricia. Wow. I started crying when she shot him - I feel so sorry for her. I want to grab her and hug her and tell her what she did is OK. She's still here! Oh, I'm so sorry for her that she had to do that, but I'm so glad that she is ok. How horrible.
 
Her cell phone bill should be in the mail. Mine list all calls made and recieved, the time, where the person is calling from, where Im calling from. Look at all the calls made that day and the week before, even if you know the person ask them why they called.

I never open the door for strangers, even to answer it, unless they are carrying a bible and very old, or kids selling stuff. If it is someone I "know", Im on the phone telling someone else that so and so is here.

That being said if she kind of thinks like me, I dont think she walked out of her house and left the door open, even if it was to water plants or whatever. I dont think she was letting the dog in or out, because my dog follows me in or out, I think her dog would act the same way. I think she went outside, made the dog stay in, because she knew the person or no threat was seen.

I hope you can get her cell phone bill and see if maybe someone called her that day or the day/week before, and she knew they where going to stop by. Maybe to return or borrow something. Maybe they had some mail for her or something to sign? Did she buy fund raiser things, like popcorn, candles, cookies, books?

Last, my husband has and sometimes drives a red dually late 90s ford. Around here duallys are common. Look for auctions in your area and go post fliers there, I think one might be comming up in Washington soon. I think the hat, with the clip, and the truck should give someone, somewhere a clue as to who this is.

I got her cell phone bill yesterday but it doesn't show itemized calls. I'm sure LE has this information though. She did buy fundraiser things but usually only from her grandkids. I don't know of anything else that someone might have been stopping by for, although that doesn't means there wasn't something - I just can't think of anything she mentioned. She wouldn't have wanted anyone coming by at night though, unless she knew them really well.
 
I just saw that his sister's name is Patricia. Wow. I started crying when she shot him - I feel so sorry for her. I want to grab her and hug her and tell her what she did is OK. She's still here! Oh, I'm so sorry for her that she had to do that, but I'm so glad that she is ok. How horrible.

You might be just the person she needs to hear from to soothe her anguish over this whole thing. You can find her address easily, as unfortunately for her, her address is all over the news, and even the exact location where she USED TO KEEP her keys is thoroughly discussed in the long version of the 911 call!

Somehow, though, I doubt that the keys are still there, or that the big dogs are locked in with the goats anymore! Anyone with any ill intent would be wise to think before going into any part of her property in the future.

jmoo
 
I just heard from TES and due to the lovely weather here in KS right now (a whole lotta snow), they are not able to bring their plan in this week. They hope to be here next week - crossing my fingers.

And praying for you too! I can't wait until they get there, hope you'll give us a minute by minute review - just kidding - but I think what they do is so wonderful. if I weren't so darn old and uncoordinated, I'd sure like to try it.

Hugs
Pam
 
why was there no SKETCH OF THE TRUCK released by LE? If it was witnessed and involved why is there no SKETCH of it released to the pulic? It makes NO SENSE TO ME the more I think about it UNLESS LE HAS A SUSPECT IN MIND WITH SUCH A TRUCK? any thoughts?
 
I am going to bed now.. but before I do I am bumping up this thread for Pat gosh darn it! Where IS SHE?????!!!! COME HOME PAT!!!!!!
 
why was there no SKETCH OF THE TRUCK released by LE? If it was witnessed and involved why is there no SKETCH of it released to the pulic? It makes NO SENSE TO ME the more I think about it UNLESS LE HAS A SUSPECT IN MIND WITH SUCH A TRUCK? any thoughts?
I wondered the same.
 
praying for Pat... goodnight Kimmi family and friends. Let us all hope that tomorrow the sun will rise on some answers.
 
We wondered this too, did she hear the loud truck and think it was one of us? All of us have 4x4's, they're all loud. Did she mistake the truck for being someone she THOUGHT she knew? When I think of all the little things I know of that showed how cautious she was, I still think she would have looked out the window first before opening the door. But...I don't know. What are the odds that the ONE time she opens the door to someone she doesn't know, it's to someone who's there to abduct her?

She didn't grab her phone, that still stumps me. I don't want it to be someone we know either, someone from around here. The hat, though, has to be somewhat local. Some random criminal traveling thru the state is not going to have a hat from Sabetha.

I think statistically, crimes against women are committed most often by men they know.


I cant remember if you have said anything about this or even if its been asked before, but would your mother have opened the door for someone perporting to be a LE officer, or a utility worker who may have stopped by for a "service check"? I can't help but think that there have been cases where people have been able to gain entry into the house of someone very security conscious by using very authentic looking ID/Badges etc., but were obviously there for other pruposes. We had a rash of imposter traffic stops hear last year by someone with a Dodge Charger that they had miocked up to resemble the local Sherrifs Department unmarked Chargers, and they were able to pull over several women in very sparcely populated areas of the county.
 
Hi Rita, have investigators run a credit check for evidence of identity theft? I believe the financial angle on this has been asked about a couple of times on this forum. I'm sure the publicity around her abduction has eliminated the ability for her to call the bank (Everest? Horton?) but have any credit cards or similar been applied for? I know it is a long shot.
 
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