Reported/Possible sightings of Elizabeth and/or Gabriel from 12/18 to 12/30

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TXHOPE said:
Am I the only one that has a bad feeling about this sighting? So strange, why would she go in and out of a laundry mat for days at a time but not wash anything until the 26th?? I wonder if it was the evening of the 26th?
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They have computers you can pay for and use.
 
I should say some laudromats have computers that you can pay for and use. I know the one I use has a computer that you pay by 15 minute increments. I do not know if the the laundromat EJ went to has one or not, but if they do then that computer needs to be checked out since she was there so frequently.
 
I was going to say that perhaps the laundromat was being used aa a rendezvous point. Perhaps EJ went there to receive updates if not from person-to-person contact then via phone or a concealed msg on a bulletin board, stack of papers, even written on the wall maybe. To go several times, I think she could have been waiting for a signal from someone that everything was "good to go." After reading that there is an adoption agency in the building next to the strip mall (thanks, momtective), I now just think it's too weird to not mean something.
 
"free services for pregnant women considering adoption. we can help" is from ad for The Adoption Network Law Center- the ad appears at the top of the yellow pages and is unrelated to the listing of civil attorneys below- if you google adoption and gardendale it will pop up with the lawyer since he's listed on gardendale as well as the phrase- it's separated by ... to show this
 
chell said:
I was going to say that perhaps the laundromat was being used aa a rendezvous point. Perhaps EJ went there to receive updates if not from person-to-person contact then via phone or a concealed msg on a bulletin board, stack of papers, even written on the wall maybe. To go several times, I think she could have been waiting for a signal from someone that everything was "good to go." After reading that there is an adoption agency in the building next to the strip mall (thanks, momtective), I now just think it's too weird to not mean something.
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Oh oh oh!!!! Great thinking, chell!!! Yes! I would keep going to a laundromat even if I wasn't washing clothes to keep checking there for an important message I was supposed to receive or to receive an important phone call on a pay phone I was supposed to receive.

Excellent, chell!

ETA: I'm sending this right now to Gabe's aunt to get right to Logan. Thank you so much, Chell!
 
saba said:
"free services for pregnant women considering adoption. we can help" is from ad for The Adoption Network Law Center- the ad appears at the top of the yellow pages and is unrelated to the listing of civil attorneys below- if you google adoption and gardendale it will pop up with the lawyer since he's listed on gardendale as well as the phrase- it's separated by ... to show this
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Yes, I have found no connections between this lawyer or his associate to any adoption ads or agencies, yet
I have found some interesting cases this lawyer has been involved in as a consumer protection lawyer to include one in the papers against a rent -all
agency who used -like techniques to collect on debts

Perhaps I just cannot find what you found MomT :waitasec:

Still looking
 
Prof said:
Yes, I have found no connections between this lawyer or his associate to any adoption ads or agencies, yet
I have found some interesting cases this lawyer has been involved in as a consumer protection lawyer to include one in the papers against a rent -all
agency who used -like techniques to collect on debts

Perhaps I just cannot find what you found MomT :waitasec:

Still looking
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It was probably just my imagination running wild. I do think there is something in that area that connects with EJ placing Gabriel for adoption. Maybe not that attorney and maybe I should remove the links...but I do think there is something there!
 
momtective said:
The home office of bwcsgala is at 7911 Broadway Street but that doesn't mean that's where the actual shelter is.

Searching The Children's Shelter on google maps I think the big black rod Iron gated place is the Children's shelter http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl it's about 5 miles from the laundromat.

bwcs ( battered Women's and Children's Shelter home office) 15 min. from the Laundromat http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
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DE LEON IS A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE THAT BETWEEN DECEMBER 23RD AND 26TH HE SAW ELIZABETH JOHNSON AT THE LAUNDROMAT WHERE HE WORKS.

and

CASAREZ: OK. I`ve got to ask you about a FaceBook entry. I want to show everybody that this is a FaceBook industry, and it is from a Tammi Peters Smith, which would be you…

… and it is from December 23rd, 2009. And it says in part, quote, “Please keep praying for Gabriel and his Mommy`s safety on the road. She found an underground help in Texas that has given her formula, diapers, et cetera, and all the legal formalities. Keep praying for his safety.” Did you write that, Tammi?

TAMMI: Yes, I wrote that.

CASAREZ: What do you mean by it?
TAMMI: OK. What I meant by that is — OK, I was being — I don`t want to — I don`t want to — I don`t want to talk bad about Logan, OK? But I was somewhat threatened by Logan, and I wanted to make sure he understood because we talked back and forth — wanted to make sure he understood that — and in the beginning of that, you`ll see that we`re going to — you know, we`re going to do our, you know, classes to be foster parents and all that.

So I wanted to make sure he knew that we are not interested in his son anymore. And secondly, before Elizabeth went missing, she let us know that she was going to a domestic violence shelter that was going to take care of her, the baby, and everything that they needed. And so I wanted to make sure that he knew that we`re out of it. We don`t want any part of her or the baby or you. And that was my way because the last time me and Logan spoke, he hung up on me, and I couldn`t tell him that. So that was me publicly letting him know. And I think anybody would want to pray for them, too, on the road.

Just sayin'
 
This whole laundry mat thing has me perplexed. It's GOT to be a key in this because why in the heck would she go there not needing to do laundry? I can't even imagine she was just wasting time waiting for someone/something as there are dozens of places in that area that would be more logical to do that at. As has been pointed out, laundry mats are (usually) dirty, hot, uncomfortable and filled with cranky people and loud children. Even to use the pay phone, it would be an odd choice.

Then, that last day washing Gabe's clothes -- that just doesn't make since, either. I think it definitely backs up that she didn't kill him, but why would she be washing his clothes if she was giving him away, too? She seems much too self centered to be washing his clothes for the "adoptive" parents. We've heard several people state how unattached she seemed to Gabe, would she be concerened with washing his clothes?

I don't know, I'm just totally confused by this sighting. I really hope it's legitimate, so we aren't focused on a bogus tip.
 
YellowSubmarine said:
This whole laundry mat thing has me perplexed. It's GOT to be a key in this because why in the heck would she go there not needing to do laundry? I can't even imagine she was just wasting time waiting for someone/something as there are dozens of places in that area that would be more logical to do that at. As has been pointed out, laundry mats are (usually) dirty, hot, uncomfortable and filled with cranky people and loud children. Even to use the pay phone, it would be an odd choice.

Then, that last day washing Gabe's clothes -- that just doesn't make since, either. I think it definitely backs up that she didn't kill him, but why would she be washing his clothes if she was giving him away, too? She seems much too self centered to be washing his clothes for the "adoptive" parents. We've heard several people state how unattached she seemed to Gabe, would she be concerened with washing his clothes?

I don't know, I'm just totally confused by this sighting. I really hope it's legitimate, so we aren't focused on a bogus tip.
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I think perhaps Elizabeth was psychotic, or on the verge of a psychotic break, and not thinking clearly. I've said before that I just never say psychotic without hallucinations or delusions of little green aliens or demons, but unless there's a rational explanation for some of her actions that none of us can think of, I'm considering more and more than she may have been in a psychotic break.

There is also the possibility that she was delusional, and we just haven't heard about it.

I don't know, Yellow. I'm just really scratching my head on this laundromat thing.
 
MANUEL NEVER SAW HER WITH ANYONE. HE DID SEE HER WHITE OLDSMOBILE PARKED OUTSIDE.

DE LEON says: ""She had a baby carrier for the car but i didn't see the baby"

I agree this maybe a bogus sighting because it's just not adding up but maybe not. This part is bugging, actually this whole sighting is bugging me much like the 2nd hotel room.. Anyway, she had a baby carrier for the car?? Does he mean carseat in the car or does he mean she actually had the carrier in the laundromat and was washing the liner to the carrier or just carrying around the carrier in the laundromat during one of her visits? I think he meant he saw the carseat in the car but clarification would be great. If he saw it in the car, wow he was really checking her out. He saw her inside and then walked outside to look in her car or maybe he was outside during one of her visits? :waitasec:
 
I'm wondering... Is it possible G had to have (or that EJ asked for him to have) a transitional visit or two with the adoptive parents maybe at the shelter or under supervision by the adoption agency prior to the placement becoming final? That would explain why she wasn't seen with him when she was sighted and it could also explain why she might be seen several times in the same area (laundromat) as she came and went to drop off/pick him up.

Even though it's not a sound (much less popular) way to look at it, though EJ was extremely detached from G , she seemed to have enough concern for her child to know he needed to be with someone other than her. EJ's upbringing/history guaranteed her virtually NO chance of knowing the appropriate thing to do. Justified or not, she seemed to think G also shouldn't be with his dad and was determined to make sure that he wasn't. If she really believed adoption was the right thing to do and she saw LM as barring what was in the best interests of their child (granted it wasn't what LM thought best and his opinion mattered too), then perhaps her willingness to take the heat for this & not divulge a thing that would reverse the adoption choice does show some attachment even if it doesn't come dressed in its usual wrappings. Maybe what we read as detachment is the only way she knew. My reasons for bringing this up here are that I really think washing the clothes may have been one way she displayed care and concern. The other... getting her child adopted. I'm just trying to get inside the mind of a young girl who sends so many conflicting signals.

If this sighting is for real, I agree then her appearance at this particular laundromat is not a weird coincidence or a random repeat sighting and I think that even if turns out that the hotel didn't have washers. She had to be taking and picking up G for some reason. Like most of you, I think it was part of the adoption process.
 
chell said:
I'm wondering... Is it possible G had to have (or that EJ asked for him to have) a transitional visit or two with the adoptive parents maybe at the shelter or under supervision by the adoption agency prior to the placement becoming final? That would explain why she wasn't seen with him when she was sighted and it could also explain why she might be seen several times in the same area (laundromat) as she came and went to drop off/pick him up.

Even though it's not a sound (much less popular) way to look at it, though EJ was extremely detached from G , she seemed to have enough concern for her child to know he needed to be with someone other than her. EJ's upbringing/history guaranteed her virtually NO chance of knowing the appropriate thing to do. Justified or not, she seemed to think G also shouldn't be with his dad and was determined to make sure that he wasn't. If she really believed adoption was the right thing to do and she saw LM as barring what was in the best interests of their child (granted it wasn't what LM thought best and his opinion mattered too), then perhaps her willingness to take the heat for this & not divulge a thing that would reverse the adoption choice does show some attachment even if it doesn't come dressed in its usual wrappings. Maybe what we read as detachment is the only way she knew. My reasons for bringing this up here are that I really think washing the clothes may have been one way she displayed care and concern. The other... getting her child adopted. I'm just trying to get inside the mind of a young girl who sends so many conflicting signals.

If this sighting is for real, I agree then her appearance at this particular laundromat is not a weird coincidence or a random repeat sighting and I think that even if turns out that the hotel didn't have washers. She had to be taking and picking up G for some reason. Like most of you, I think it was part of the adoption process.
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Actually this makes sense if she was seen several times without Gabriel and we know he had to be somewhere. We only have one confirmed baby sitter. I'm still not convinced that the laundrymat guy is confirmed, though. As far as her giving up Gabriel to adoption so he would have a better life, I think her motivation was more sticking it to LM then it was for the baby.
 
I do see what you're saying and I know it's not atypical of many young "lovers" when their relationship fizzles out to want the last word. Even though going that far is completely out of the normal range.

But since she started talking about adoption way before actually departing with G and while at that time LM was opposed to it, he eventually left their relationship but still left EJ with G and she may have felt that he didn't have much authority in the decision. I am not trying to justify I promise--only to understand. I do believe there's a strong chance I'm wrong about EJ and her thought process but I still keep wondering why G was left with her if everyone was so concerned about her mental well-being. If everyone really thought she was that unstable, then why would they leave him there? Especially if she was asking to give him away. Maybe everyone did know she cared for him even if her actions were not typical.
 
BeanE said:
I think perhaps Elizabeth was psychotic, or on the verge of a psychotic break, and not thinking clearly. I've said before that I just never say psychotic without hallucinations or delusions of little green aliens or demons, but unless there's a rational explanation for some of her actions that none of us can think of, I'm considering more and more than she may have been in a psychotic break.

There is also the possibility that she was delusional, and we just haven't heard about it.

I don't know, Yellow. I'm just really scratching my head on this laundromat thing.
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E's grandpa said E was into fashion, does this mean she pays attention to clothing, regardless who's?

Washing his clothing doesn't mean she did it for him per-se. If she was rational, even she would know it isn't socially acceptable not to have clean clothing for your child... KWIM?

On the other hand if she was psychotic it could mean anything or nothing that she was at a laundry matt.

Or as some are theorizing she may not have been there at all.

Thank you so much for keeping this going, I don't know if you have noticed the news in AZ isn't so much news as a little of this and a little of that.
 
chell said:
I do see what you're saying and I know it's not atypical of many young "lovers" when their relationship fizzles out to want the last word. Even though going that far is completely out of the normal range.

But since she started talking about adoption much way before actually departing with G and LM was opposed to it, left their relationship but still left her with G she may have felt that he didn't have much authority in the decision. I am not trying to justify I promise--only to understand. I do believe there's astrong chance I'm wrong about EJ and her thought process but I still keep wondering why G was left with her if everyone was so concerned aobut her mental well-being. If everyone really thought she was that unstable, then why would they leave him there? Especially if she was asking to give him away. Maybe everyone did know she cared for him even if her actions were not typical.
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LM was trying to get Gabriel away from her, he was just going the legal route. He wanted full custody and didn't feel Gabriel was safe with EJ.
 
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