Do you guys think AB and EB killed Zahra?

[Kamille]

ty Kamille for your thoughtful post. This is also my struggle with AB. My husband is self employed construction contractor. This work is physical and sometimes, like now, he works daytime on one job and then evenings on another, the competion out there is tough right now because of the economy. Every Tom Dick and Harry who has found himself unemployed has suddenly become a "contractor" and is out there underbidding the actual carpenters etc. So when an opportunity to work arises, despite the fact that you may just break even, you gotta take it.

Many blue collar guys that I know, including DH, are gone before the kids rise and are home after their chirldren are abed. DH does not peek in on them when he arrives after a long day. He is dirty, smelly, and heads for the shower, and then bed. He relies heavily on me to handle the kids, homework, school contact, etc. My DH loves our children, but he could not name our kids teachers. That falls under my job description.

It is the division of roles in my home and many others.

I am angry at AB for putting Zahra in this position. I am angry over reports that he "let" EB handle the discipline of Zahra according to some witnesses even so far as abuse. This makes me very upset with him and I want him held accountable.

I have a hard time figuring out what I feel was AB's level of involvement. I can find nothing to make 100% genuinely certain that he knew beforehand or was part of some plan.

The thing that prevents me from being able to commit to the stance that AB knew nothing is the multiple dumpsites and the dog hits on BOTH vehicles. I find it hard to imagine two seperate trips in two vehicles by one person at separate times to dump dismembered body parts. That just doesn't fit for me. In the words of Judge Judy - If it doesn't makes sense, it isn't true.

Some have suggested that perhpas AB's company vehicle was used to haul and dump the matress, thereby explaining the hit on it by the dogs. This makes no sense to me as I believe, based on LE interest in and removal of the dumpster from the business right near Baker home, that the matress was hand carried/dragged to that dumpster and no vehicle was needed to accomplish that.

SO there you have it. I do not want to jump on any bandwagons perematurely and I want to afford a grieving father some dignity if that is indeed what he is but while I have no facts to base AB's possible guilt on, his behavior, statements, etc. after the case broke trouble me immensely.

ME ----> stymied.

We all look at these cases with our own life experiences in the back of our mind tl, thank you for sharing yours. It's not surprising at all that everyone can come to different conclusions and I would imagine it's those life experiences that prosecutors and defense lawyers are honing in on when trying to choose jury members.

Thank goodness for your DH that he has you to "hold the fort" so to speak while he is out working hard to make a living. If he knows anything about this case, I hope he realizes just how lucky he is. The stay at home wife and mother's job is just as tough, many would say tougher, but it gives one parent a lot of leeway with regards to how the children are being treated and cared for. That's why marriages are built on love and trust. Without the trust, it just doesn't work. Imagine being married to a lying sociopath. The fallout from realizing that everything is/was a lie must be devastating.

I know that in hindsight a few people have come out publicly to speak about what they witnessed regarding abuse, but other than BB, I don't believe anyone has mentioned AB being around when these incidents supposedly took place. And I'm not sure what the timeframe is for BB claims. Was this supposedly before and after AB had a job or just after. Once AB was working, EB sure would have had a lot more leeway with Zahra and if any resentment had been building, a lot more opportunity to take it out on her.

Again you have to understand the abilities of a true sociopath to understand how someone might not be able to see what is right there, under their nose, so to speak. I believe I've read accounts from at least three different people who claim that one aspect that makes this so tragic is that Zahra really loved EB. That's the perception that Zahra herself may have been putting forward to the public, including her own father, but for the life of me I can't understand why. From what we have seen, there is nothing lovable about EB but obviously from her many marriages and other adult relationships that somehow she's been able to maintain over the years, there's a side of her that we're just not hearing about. She likely had Zahra believing that she deserved the "punishment" when it was dished out but the rest of the time she may have seemed like a good mother and maybe even friend. Hard to say or even imagine really.

Regarding multiple dumpsites, to my knowledge there are only two that LE has made us aware of. And both of them would have been very familiar to EB. AB did not live in that area but we don't know if he knew of the area from his work. Either way, EB was likely directing that part of the disposal, no matter whoever actually did it.

The articles regarding the search at the landfill seemed to point out that the landfill that was searched was not the landfill that the trash from Catawba county was sent to. There was a reason for that IMO. The media likely knew from inside sources that LE were aware that the dumpster was not in the county they were living in. EB claims to have lead LE to the dumpster that the mattress was placed in. I don't think LE needed anyone to lead them to the one right next to the house. But taking it made perfect sense because there could have been a lot of other smaller evidence dumped there.

MOO

 

[dar107]

ty MK, my brain is mush as well.

It may be time for me to spend a little less time on the zahra threads and step back, take a moment to check up on my other special angel threads.

This one is going to slow down considerably if past experience is any clue.

Hopefully Zahra's forum will be speeding up dramatically soon with news of charges being pressed against any and all responsible! I don't think it will be much longer after hearing about the little pow wow with EB's lawyers and the D.A on Friday, and the testing should be complete or near completion. It does take time when they have hundreds of items to test then tie the evidence all together.

This little angel needs to be laid to rest with the dignity she deserves in the home country she loved.

 

[tlcya]

OT response to Kamille. I wish I were a stay home mom still, finances drove me back into the workforce as soon as the kids were into school. I am fulltime working outside the home and juggling all the home stuff as well.

back On Topic, I do agree that there does not seem to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that AB was aware of the severity of EB's treatment of Z

snipped from Kamille's above.

I know that in hindsight a few people have come out publicly to speak about what they witnessed regarding abuse, but other than BB, I don't believe anyone has mentioned AB being around when these incidents supposedly took place. And I'm not sure what the timeframe is for BB claims. Was this supposedly before and after AB had a job or just after. Once AB was working, EB sure would have had a lot more leeway with Zahra and if any resentment had been building, a lot more opportunity to take it out on her.

 

[sophclown]

In the GMA interview, AB says that he arrived home shortly before 2 pm. and was working in the yard when EB comes out to tell him Zahra is missing. He goes on to say that he searched the house and canvassed the neighborhood looking for his daughter before calling police.

The 911 call was logged in at 1:58 pm.

That's a miraculously quick search, don't you think?

In the 911 call AB tells the dispatcher that he just got up. So, that is another lie by AB! He sure can't work and sleep at the same time. AB does not lie well. He does not know if he saw Zahra on Tuesday, Thursday or at 2:30 am the morning of the fire. AB and EB are both guilty for the murder of this precious child! IMHO

 

[Kamille]

In the 911 call AB tells the dispatcher that he just got up. So, that is another lie by AB! He sure can't work and sleep at the same time. AB does not lie well. He does not know if he saw Zahra on Tuesday, Thursday or at 2:30 am the morning of the fire. AB and EB are both guilty for the murder of this precious child! IMHO

In fairness, AB does not say that he "just got up". He says "I got up..." and then there is a pause. He may have been going to say I got up and went to work and blah blah blah.... but perhaps he was starting to realize that he was rambling and that it all had nothing to do with the reason for his call.

Whether that is because he is guilty or because he has a habit of rambling and not getting to the point is yet to be seen.

MOO

 

[sophclown]

In fairness, AB does not say that he "just got up". He says "I got up..." and then there is a pause. He may have been going to say I got up and went to work and blah blah blah.... but perhaps he was starting to realize that he was rambling and that it all had nothing to do with the reason for his call.

Whether that is because he is guilty or because he has a habit of rambling and not getting to the point is yet to be seen.

MOO

Transcript of AB 911 Call

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13351620

AB- I got up a little while ago......

AB never mentions in the 911 call ..... I just got home from work!

 

[Kamille]

Transcript of AB 911 Call

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13351620

AB- I got up a little while ago......

AB never mentions in the 911 call ..... I just got home from work!

Thank you for the correction sophclown. I suppose he could have been going to say "I got up a little while ago and went to check on a job and when I got back my wife came running out....blah blah blah". But he cut himself short and just got to the point to say it appears they took my daughter instead.

Or...he is lying through his teeth. I sure hope we find out soon which one it is.

MOO

 

[tehcloser]

But why not just say, "My daughter is missing", why say "I just got up" or anything besides my daughter is missing. By adding the I just got up part, it would have been the same if he said he just got home.............I think that was one of the inconsistencies LE mentioned, lol.

 

[Kamille]

But why not just say, "My daughter is missing", why say "I just got up" or anything besides my daughter is missing. By adding the I just got up part, it would have been the same if he said he just got home.............I think that was one of the inconsistencies LE mentioned, lol.

Well if there is one thing I can guess about that 911 call if AB turns out to be not involved it's that he was feeling incredibly guilty about the fact that he hadn't checked on or seen his daughter since that fire. And he was trying to lessen his culpability in that.

Other than that, as I mentioned, if he was involved he was lying through his teeth...and badly. :crazy:

 

[lauriej]

ADAM BAKER: Ummm. We checked in there last night about 2:30 and she was there... and all this happened last night around 5 ...so I don't know if they set a fire in the yard to distract us to go out and then they snuck in the door... or.. I don't know.

..if i was talking to someone at 2 p.m. about a fire that occurred at 5:30 a.m.----i wouldn't say that "it happened last night", i would go with "it happened early this morning".

..and ---why on earth---would the kidnappers start a fire,that gets the dog barking, that wakes up the adults in the house, who then call the fire department------use ALL of this activity---to "sneak in"-----and kidnap their target? ( and are kind enough to bring along the prosthetic while they're at it..)

..thankfully the "kidnapper" was stupid enough to hand write her/their ransom note.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Well if there is one thing I can guess about that 911 call if AB turns out to be not involved it's that he was feeling incredibly guilty about the fact that he hadn't checked on or seen his daughter since that fire. And he was trying to lessen his culpability in that.

Other than that, as I mentioned, if he was involved he was lying through his teeth...and badly. :crazy:

One of the biggest red flags, for me, is in the GMA interview, where he claims he searched the house and neighborhood for Zahra. He flat out lied about that. That incidence isn't one where you can give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he simply misspoke. He clearly says he arrived home shortly before 2 pm, began to do work in the yard, talked to EB about Zahra being missing, searched the house, searched the neighborhood, then called 911. The 911 call came in at 1:58. That CLEARLY tells me, there WAS no search for this child.

Not trying to belabor this one point, but it's a HUGE inconsistency, imo. And one we shouldn't overlook.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

I agree, timewise, I do not think he had the time to accomplish the search he describes on GMA. Unless he meant to suggest that EB claimed to have already done that - which is not what he says.

 

[Belinda]

One of the biggest red flags, for me, is in the GMA interview, where he claims he searched the house and neighborhood for Zahra. He flat out lied about that. That incidence isn't one where you can give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he simply misspoke. He clearly says he arrived home shortly before 2 pm, began to do work in the yard, talked to EB about Zahra being missing, searched the house, searched the neighborhood, then called 911. The 911 call came in at 1:58. That CLEARLY tells me, there WAS no search for this child.

Not trying to belabor this one point, but it's a HUGE inconsistency, imo. And one we shouldn't overlook.

JMO

After just saying I'm up on the fence in the other thread, I find this to be a really, really good point. It could be explained by him not really knowing what time it was when he arrived at home. He could have just been estimating, but that would still be a pretty big gap. It would take a fair amount of time for all of those things to have occurred before the 911 call.

 

[Kamille]

One of the biggest red flags, for me, is in the GMA interview, where he claims he searched the house and neighborhood for Zahra. He flat out lied about that. That incidence isn't one where you can give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he simply misspoke. He clearly says he arrived home shortly before 2 pm, began to do work in the yard, talked to EB about Zahra being missing, searched the house, searched the neighborhood, then called 911. The 911 call came in at 1:58. That CLEARLY tells me, there WAS no search for this child.

Not trying to belabor this one point, but it's a HUGE inconsistency, imo. And one we shouldn't overlook.

JMO

I just watched that interview again yesterday I think. :waitasec: It was posted on another thread. I thought he said he checked the "block" but I could be wrong...so many videos and articles floating around in my brain. To some people though, the "block" just means the street in front of your house. Considering that Zahra had never been outside to make any friends on the "block" maybe he meant he walked to the end of the driveway and looked both ways up and down the street. A very thorough search of the "block". :floorlaugh:

I get what you're saying though. He also said he called his boss. A lot of stuff happened in the time "shortly before 2pm" and the 1:58pm 911 call. And it does raise red flags.

MOO

 

[Allusonz]

One of the biggest red flags, for me, is in the GMA interview, where he claims he searched the house and neighborhood for Zahra. He flat out lied about that. That incidence isn't one where you can give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he simply misspoke. He clearly says he arrived home shortly before 2 pm, began to do work in the yard, talked to EB about Zahra being missing, searched the house, searched the neighborhood, then called 911. The 911 call came in at 1:58. That CLEARLY tells me, there WAS no search for this child.

Not trying to belabor this one point, but it's a HUGE inconsistency, imo. And one we shouldn't overlook.

JMO

In all fairness

I t was not AB that said that he came home at 2 pm it was the anchor that said " we understand that you arrived home sometime around 2 pm". No specific time frame was actually given.

He easily could of had time to go in and check her room which to my thinking AB would constitute a search in AB's mind

Interesting to note that even the anchor stumbles over the Friday/Saturday...night /morning. I often refer to an early morning as last night

He then said " i went inside searched the house started searching the block and called police".
AB did not state that he did a full search of the block but that started then decided to call police.

It would seem more like he looked around the yard and called police MOO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

In all fairness

I t was not AB that said that he came home at 2 pm it was the anchor that said " we understand that you arrived home sometime around 2 pm". No specific time frame was actually given.

He easily could of had time to go in and check her room which to my thinking AB would constitute a search in AB's mind

Interesting to note that even the anchor stumbles over the Friday/Saturday...night /morning. I often refer to an early morning as last night

He then said " i went inside searched the house started searching the block and called police".
AB did not state that he did a full search of the block but that started then decided to call police.

It would seem more like he looked around the yard and called police MOO

George S. says, "So you arrived home around 2 pm", and AB agrees with that time. He then goes on to say he started some work in the yard (how long did that take?), EB comes out tells him Zahra is missing (had to be at least a cursory discussion here, she doesn't just say Z is gone and he runs right into the house), he then searches the house (he says in 911 call that kidnappers took her leg, so how does he know that if he doesn't THOROUGHLY search the house?), he then looks for her around the block, and then calls police. 911 call occurs at 1:58.

We should also note that, he's standing there with the chief of police, someone with whom he has gone over this time line with quite a bit. I doubt his memory of events and times is fuzzy at this stage of the game.


All just MOO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I just watched that interview again yesterday I think. :waitasec: It was posted on another thread. I thought he said he checked the "block" but I could be wrong...so many videos and articles floating around in my brain. To some people though, the "block" just means the street in front of your house. Considering that Zahra had never been outside to make any friends on the "block" maybe he meant he walked to the end of the driveway and looked both ways up and down the street. A very thorough search of the "block". :floorlaugh:

I get what you're saying though. He also said he called his boss. A lot of stuff happened in the time "shortly before 2pm" and the 1:58pm 911 call. And it does raise red flags.

MOO

:doh: I forgot about the call to the boss.

Geez louise, Adam Baker is superman!

 

[Allusonz]

George S. says, "So you arrived home around 2 pm", and AB agrees with that time. He then goes on to say he started some work in the yard (how long did that take?), EB comes out tells him Zahra is missing (had to be at least a cursory discussion here, she doesn't just say Z is gone and he runs right into the house), he then searches the house (he says in 911 call that kidnappers took her leg, so how does he know that if he doesn't THOROUGHLY search the house?), he then looks for her around the block, and then calls police. 911 call occurs at 1:58.

We should also note that, he's standing there with the chief of police, someone with whom he has gone over this time line with quite a bit. I doubt his memory of events and times is fuzzy at this stage of the game.


All just MOO

As crazy as this may seem but i note the prothesis before i note whether or not my daughter is in her room, prob cuz she tends to prop it up and i am tired of breaking bones in my foot walking into it rofl...OT note to all dont stub your foot on a prothesis it is dangerous to ones bones lol

Also the prothesis being there tells me immediately if there is a chance she is out of the house or in my case a 4 level split home thus on another level

The prothesis is a huge indicator of the distance she has probably travelled so yes i know i would state that her prothesis is gone to LE. For me that would be a vital piece of info in my mind.

Just personal experience....i always look for the prothesis that is the trail i follow

 

[Allusonz]

OMG

It has been a standing joke around our home that her prothesis should be classifed as a lethal weapon which till now was just a family joke

After logging out i realized that there has been no idea whether a weapon was used etc

I do know that from the weight and how they are put together a prothesis can actually kill someone and crutches can cause alot of damage as i can attest to when she tried to defend her brother with her crutches

Maybe it was the prothesis...oh god i dont even want to go there and i apologize if this is OT monitors

 

[ynotdivein]

OMG

It has been a standing joke around our home that her prothesis should be classifed as a lethal weapon which till now was just a family joke

After logging out i realized that there has been no idea whether a weapon was used etc

I do know that from the weight and how they are put together a prothesis can actually kill someone and crutches can cause alot of damage as i can attest to when she tried to defend her brother with her crutches

Maybe it was the prothesis...oh god i dont even want to go there and i apologize if this is OT monitors

Allusonz, have to say how much I appreciate your thoughtful posts. You keep my mind-doors open!

Does your daughter's prosthesis happen to have a titanium core and gel insert? (If you are willing to share that is!) When we were back on the threads some of us speculated that Zahra's was used as the murder weapon and that it was discarded because it would reveal damage that might point to it having been used in such a manner. Any information you can provide would be most welcome.