NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

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yeah, sorry, I have a one track mind sometimes :S

this seems so incredibly solvable...almost frustratingly so
 
I think I'd like to see a mitDNA sample from Grace Reapp's lineage obtained and put into CODIS, if it hasn't been already. Even if it didn't clear up this case, chances are it would clear up another one or two cases somewhere sometime, so the investment of LE resources would be worth it, just from the perspective of playing the odds.
 
I was just poking around NamUs and on Grace Reapp's page under DNA it said 'initial inquiry underway'...that's got to be a good sign - right?
 
CCD said:
I was just poking around NamUs and on Grace Reapp's page under DNA it said 'initial inquiry underway'...that's got to be a good sign - right?
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Not necessarily. It might mean that they can't find any biological relatives.
 
This is so crazy..how does a woman and 3 children go missing and NOBODY misses them or reports them missing...I have been all over looking to see if there are any similar cases of missing persons and have not found anything..please correct me if I am wrong. It is bad enough when one person is found and can not be identified but 4?? How can a woman and 3 children disappear and noone is missing them, like they never existed. This is so sad!! I hope they can be identified and buried with their true identities and the person responsible punished!
 
You'd think someone would have noticed an entire missing family in Rural NH of all places. We're not talking NYC here for goodness sake.
 
rpipergirl said:
You'd think someone would have noticed an entire missing family in Rural NH of all places. We're not talking NYC here for goodness sake.
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Not necessarily. Assuming that the husband/father is the perp, he is not going to report them missing, and if there is no extended family (e.g., her parents are deceased and she had no siblings), nobody else will report them missing either.

The neighbors probably thought that they just moved away, or maybe they were not well-acquainted with their neighbors.

Keep in mind that the barrels were in the vicinity of a mobile-home park. If they were residents of the mobile home park, it would be understandable if the neighbors just assumed that they all moved out.
 
The New Hampshire police were extremely diligent in trying to identify this family. They went to all the schools, daycares, social services agencies, etc. and followed up on every single child who hadn't been seen for a while. They contacted ministers about missing church members. They even contacted my daughter's gymnastics schools about students who had withdrawn unexpectedly that many years previously.

So it's highly unlikely they're from the area, unless they were literally kept locked in a basement as reasypeasy suggested.

They did the tests necessary for the isotope testing and so forth last year; I've been watching for results but so far nothing seems to have been released.
 
CarlK90245 said:
Not necessarily. Assuming that the husband/father is the perp, he is not going to report them missing, and if there is no extended family (e.g., her parents are deceased and she had no siblings), nobody else will report them missing either.

The neighbors probably thought that they just moved away, or maybe they were not well-acquainted with their neighbors.

Keep in mind that the barrels were in the vicinity of a mobile-home park. If they were residents of the mobile home park, it would be understandable if the neighbors just assumed that they all moved out.
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I wonder if they checked MA,ME and VT for matches? Also is that part on NH far north enough that they could have been Canadian? Just thinking in and out of any conceivable box.
 
rpipergirl said:
I wonder if they checked MA,ME and VT for matches? Also is that part on NH far north enough that they could have been Canadian? Just thinking in and out of any conceivable box.
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Well, I don't know whether they actually canvassed schools in other NE states, but they did contact everybody they could think of in LE in terms of finding possible matches.

Yes, they do think there's a very high likelihood that it's a family from Canada or an illegal immigrant family. Drug running from Florida has been mentioned, though that's speculation, not anything there's evidence for.
 
Although this seems highly solvable, since you'd think that logically someone would realize that almost an entire family is missing, I have to think that some of the time when people go unidentified this long, stranger circumstances than seem logical keep them from being identified. This case brings Jaycee Dugard to mind: If Jaycee had been murdered at some point along with she and Garrido's children, who would miss them? Legally, her children didn't exist - no birth certificates and no formal education. I know situations like that seem far-fetched, but clearly, strange things happen - we just don't know how often. Sometimes people aren't identified for so long because they were simply never reported as missing (think Shannon Aumock), but other times, I think it's because those far-fetched situations actually occur and there are no logical answers.

Of course, this won't help identify this poor mother and her children, but it's something to think about.
 
Take a look at this Lady: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/guthrie_leslie.html
She and two children went missing Katonah, NY. Her daughter, Julie, was six years old at the time.
(Not sure what would have happened to her son, Timothy,who was three, the killer may have kept him, or could be, that he is in another drum, somewhere!!)
 
grapes21 said:
This is so crazy..how does a woman and 3 children go missing and NOBODY misses them or reports them missing...I have been all over looking to see if there are any similar cases of missing persons and have not found anything..please correct me if I am wrong. It is bad enough when one person is found and can not be identified but 4?? How can a woman and 3 children disappear and noone is missing them, like they never existed. This is so sad!! I hope they can be identified and buried with their true identities and the person responsible punished!
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I believe it was earlier in this thread that the observation was made that perhaps these "family" were not in this country legally so that may be a possible explanation of why no one reported them missing.....
 
MadeaBecBec said:
Take a look at this Lady: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/guthrie_leslie.html
She and two children went missing Katonah, NY. Her daughter, Julie, was six years old at the time.
(Not sure what would have happened to her son, Timothy,who was three, the killer may have kept him, or could be, that he is in another drum, somewhere!!)
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I went back and read some other pages, that apparently I had skipped. MargotKidder had already suggested the above missing family. I suppose 'great minds' and all. Don't know how I totally missed her post, actually the whole page, but I did.

Could be a sign! Hopefully, a good one! Get these Jane Does identified and their killer brought to justice...

I haven't submitted this, yet. Will wait to read on whether MargotKidder did.
 
MargotKidder said:
Hi, I was on the Doe Network yesterday and viewed the site updates section pertaining to the disappearences of Julie Anne Guthrie, age 6, and Timothy Patrick Guthrie, age 3, from Katonah, Westchester County, New York on February 6, 1977. They were last seen with their mother. However, it did not say if she were missing or not, or what were the circumstances surrounding their disappearances. It did not give her name either. I tried to find out that information, but could not find it upon an internet search.

I believe that their ages match up to these unidentified people. I believe that their pictures look strikingly similiar. I just don't know if their mother is missing, too. I know that the 4 to 8 year old is listed as being female, but is it not often hard to tell the definite sex of younger remains without DNA testing? I think that it is a rather an androgenous period of development during those particular childhood years. I am no forensic expert. The similarities in the pictures is what spooked me. I vaguely remember googling the case a few weeks ago, and believe that at one point, they initially believed that child to be a male. I wont attach the links, but you can look up their cases (those of Julie Anne Guthrie and Timothy Patrick Guthrie) on The Doe Network and The Charley Project, as well as on the national website for missing and exploited children in the United States. I think the older 5 to 10 year old child looks similar to Julie Anne Guthrie as well.

What do you guys think?
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I had totally missed your post, so I suggested this, too!
Looks like a great submission. Will you be forwarding to NH? If you haven't I think you should!
 
The New Hampshire cold case people I've dealt with have all been friendly and responsive, though not necessarily informative. I usually just email things to them.
 
rpipergirl said:
I wanted to pass on this link to their NH cold case site. http://doj.nh.gov/coldcaseunit/listing/allenstown.htm
Recreations of each are there. I also blogged the case. http://genkidjericho.blogspot.com/2011/04/unidentified-female-and-three-children.html
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Also, wanted to add the NamUs links to this, each Doe has an individual page and case number:
Adult female: https://identifyus.org/cases/2174
5-10 Year old female: https://identifyus.org/cases/2173
4-8 year old (says unsure) : https://identifyus.org/cases/2175
1-3 year old (says unsure): https://identifyus.org/cases/2176

And these two missing persons have been ruled out:
Ella Beth Lodermeier
Melissa Bustamante

Contact links for the ME in New Hampshire are on the above NamUs...
 
taramarie said:
Although this seems highly solvable, since you'd think that logically someone would realize that almost an entire family is missing, I have to think that some of the time when people go unidentified this long, stranger circumstances than seem logical keep them from being identified. This case brings Jaycee Dugard to mind: If Jaycee had been murdered at some point along with she and Garrido's children, who would miss them? Legally, her children didn't exist - no birth certificates and no formal education. I know situations like that seem far-fetched, but clearly, strange things happen - we just don't know how often. Sometimes people aren't identified for so long because they were simply never reported as missing (think Shannon Aumock), but other times, I think it's because those far-fetched situations actually occur and there are no logical answers.

Of course, this won't help identify this poor mother and her children, but it's something to think about.
Click to expand...
Excellent point about Jaycee! I had not thought in those terms. It's another avenue
to take.
 
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