TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #4

[Columbo]

I concur he wanted his own wheels, but I wonder if they ended up going or not, and who got their way? That was Friday the week before she went down the last time before her disappearance, and the kids were in school (except for the storms 27th-29th) so only weekends available until after the 24th of May.

bolded by me.

That's another good question !

 

[SmoothOperator]

Re: the incident where 911 call was made when MP refused to get in car stemming from an argument due to his refusal tonride to the lake house with wife and kids because he decided he wanted to take the boat which meant him making tge trip solo with him having to drive the jeep in order to pull the boat..

I have a couple of thoughts on this.. If I am reading and understanding this correctly Gail and the kids were in a different vehicle than the red jeep rubicon that is currently missing.. And with Matt insisting on taking the boat it mean having to take the jeep rubicon that was equipped to pull the boat..

So if that's correct them I'll go even a step further to say that most likely this insistence on taking the boat most likely occurred at the very last minute.. Again IMO most likely so very much at the last minute that Gail and the children Along with all bags
And luggage were already packed into the other family vehicle ready to leave for the trip.. I take this leap because if this were not at the very last minute and the children and luggage were not already packed and ready to go then logically if Matt had decided before this late time to want to take the boat that they very easily amd comfortably could have taken the jeep rubicon comfortably accommodating luggage as well as all four of them along with the boat hitched on the back.. Doesn't that make the most sense??..IMO it does and that's what leads me to believe that the boat idea occurred very last minute as they were leaving for the trip to the lake house..

Leading me to what is my next thought.. That IMO a very likely reason for Matts insistence on the need to drive separately from the family while pulling the boat was one for selfish gain quite possibly involving a girlfriend.. From what has been said throughout Gail's threads I have learned that Matt and girlfriend had a good bit of
Phone communications with him even known to be right outside the house on the cell phone talking to girlfriend.. It being around a 4 hour one way trip to the lakehouse I can definitely see this "boat idea" of Matts being a perfect ruse allowing him the freedom of talking freely for however long of that road trip to whomever that his little heart desired..
As I have posted previously about my having a close family friend with almost eerily similar situation as Gail's .. Affair amd all.. And this in friends case ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS ENDED UP BEING EXACTLY WHAT HER HUSBAND HAS DONE ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS.. and afterward having cell phone detailed reports proving her suspicions to be dead on correct in thinking he was having constant communications with the girlfriend during these times..

Again much the same I believe that Matt too was using this exact tactic in allowing him this freedom to communicate with his girlfriend during the 8 hrs total of which would make up the entire road trip to amd from their lakehouse..

And I want to reiterate just so there be zero mistaking..
I wm in no way stating fact but rather my opinions of what I believe most likeliest to have happened and/or occurred given what little we have to work with.. All just my opinion!! Again... JMO, tho!!

Also Jbean I am very interested to hear more about what your thoughts are on possibilities that occurred in and around April 30th with Gail last seen at 12:15 leaving their home on Signal Mtn.. And if by chance I missed a post where you have already detailed your thoughts on this just point me that way.. I am anxious to hear more of your thoughts as from the little I read upthread about your thoughts on her leaving DL, ccards, etc and that you feel that she wasn't planning to return immediately(sometime that same day) back home where her 2 children were....thanks in advance..

 

[happy409]

I think we are saying the same thing regarding not telling anyone if she was going to leave. I agree that if she was going to take off there is no reason that she could not have communicated that to her family and friends because she had been telling some of them what was going on already.

When I say I thought she may have planned on leaving,I am also saying that even if she was, the way it went down does not make sense.
I agree that she probably planned on returning at some point in time, I just don't think it was going to be immediate or that day.

As for the DL,maybe she did not have it from the night before and didn't even want to go in and get it. Maybe she wasn't thinking about it at all.

MP may have kept them with him to make sure she did come back. It was the police who suggested the split and maybe her opportunity to get out of town for a few days and threw stuff together. If they frequent the lake house as talked about, I imagine you would keep clothes there as well. Thinking either with no electricity for a day or so and storms for two of those days, I am sure they had cabin fever, I know we did.

Could it be possible that the change of address forms for the IRA accounts and/or new pin notifications came in the mail Friday afternoon and why she was demanded to return as soon as the kids woke up the next morning? No doubt he would be livid.

It should be enlightening to hear about the money situation if it ever comes out, since there are rumors on the mountain. I am hoping it will not and GP will return after a much needed psychological need to decompress.

 

[glorias]

You know, it's interesting that they apparently had multiple fights revolving around the lake house, and there are these threads of info that just keep going back to the lake house. The April 22nd call where Matt wanted to take the Jeep by himself and not drive with the rest of the family to the house. Then the April 29th call which led to Gail and the kids leaving for the lake house. And the security DVR which Arlene now has must be from the lake house, since it was taken to an AL Best Buy. Also, those rumors about Matt driving to the lake house so he could talk to his girlfriend without the family around.

It's just that they were separated/separating yet still lived together despite owning two homes, which seems odd to me personally. You'd think one parent would stay there with the kids for school while the other would go chill out somewhere else. We know Matt was okay with spending money on hotels, so why didn't he get a hotel or a place of his own? Why did they get into fights just before going to the lake house? I don't know what conclusions (if any) I'm making, it's just a pattern I've noticed that doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe it's not a pattern at all.

 

[ThoughtFox]

The other news article Columbo linked does say Gail is the one who told police, though it also says "Matthew Palmgren told police he needed the Jeep to haul the boat and his wife got mad and decided to hide the key." So that again says Matt is the one who said he would take the Jeep and the boat.

Personally, just my opinion, but it sounds like Matt was making an excuse saying he wanted to take the boat. And if Arlene is right and the boat was already down there, then maybe he WAS trying to bring the boat back up to TN? Is there room at their TN home for a boat in the driveway, and are there good places to take a boat out near where they live, does anyone know?

The entire Tennessee River is navigable by boat, as well as Chickamauga Lake. In fact, it surprises me that someone would need a lake house four hours away when there is lakefront property available here and in Marion County, but I guess they liked Alabama.

 

[jeni4smith]

I have been reading through the news stories and I was wondering if anyone could direct me to where the info about GP leaving her license and credit cards can be found. I can't find where that was mentioned. TIA.

 

[confused]

The entire Tennessee River is navigable by boat, as well as Chickamauga Lake. In fact, it surprises me that someone would need a lake house four hours away when there is lakefront property available here and in Marion County, but I guess they liked Alabama.

I believe they owned the AL property well before moving to TN. With the current housing markets, it probably would not have been easy to sell or profitable.

 

[JBean]

I have been reading through the news stories and I was wondering if anyone could direct me to where the info about GP leaving her license and credit cards can be found. I can't find where that was mentioned. TIA.

Hi Jeni. A couple things came from family members early on and that was one of them. It is always possible she had another license . Additionally that is how we know it was actually Gail that dropped off the kids at the house, that she was driving the jeep when she left and that she had the phone in her possession. Hope that helps.
Welcome!

 

[hollyblue]

You know, it's interesting that they apparently had multiple fights revolving around the lake house, and there are these threads of info that just keep going back to the lake house. The April 22nd call where Matt wanted to take the Jeep by himself and not drive with the rest of the family to the house. Then the April 29th call which led to Gail and the kids leaving for the lake house. And the security DVR which Arlene now has must be from the lake house, since it was taken to an AL Best Buy. Also, those rumors about Matt driving to the lake house so he could talk to his girlfriend without the family around.

It's just that they were separated/separating yet still lived together despite owning two homes, which seems odd to me personally. You'd think one parent would stay there with the kids for school while the other would go chill out somewhere else. We know Matt was okay with spending money on hotels, so why didn't he get a hotel or a place of his own? Why did they get into fights just before going to the lake house? I don't know what conclusions (if any) I'm making, it's just a pattern I've noticed that doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe it's not a pattern at all.

Er....I don't think Matt wanted to chill out.........prolly quite the opposite.

Matt was working, so if Gail went to the lake house in AL who would watch the kids since they were still in school? Knowing what we do...would you leave your kids with him?

I still think it has to do with a "planned" week-end argument so they would be apart.....then Matt could do what he wanted to. Been there and they seem to conveniently pick Fridays. IMO. Personally, I can't understand a 40 something man acting like a unruly, spoiled, love sick teen. Talking on the phone for hours? I mean if he was that attached to the saddle, buy the horse and live in it's stall fgs.

As far as the boat: If you look at google maps on the left side of the property there is something white. I've tried to question if it's a wheel barrow or if it could be a small row or fishing boat. If a boat, maybe this was one he talking about taking down to the lake? Someone mentioned the garage was full and the reason they did not use it for the autos.

The neighbor, SB. Don't forget it was Saturday afternoon. Many people would prolly be out doing yard work...or since she has a nice pond in her back yard. She may have been out back relaxing or working out there. She would be able to hear any traffic....and possible have a view also.

We can all just speculate at this time because LE is pretty tight lipped and the family and friends have not taken it national. I'm hoping she gave herself a specific time of a month to get herself together and will contact someone come Monday. I really want to believe and have hope in that, but her not even calling AD and leaving AL and then her not acknowledging SB has me troubled. It seems like she changed her mind in mid stride. Why? Gail please come home....your children need you now more than ever.
.

 

[hollyblue]

I have wondered that exact thing many times. If all her stuff was in her purse, including the cell phone, maybe someone else had it and brought it back then on the 2nd had to get rid of the phone, which is where the ping came from. Entirely speculation though.

Someone could have thought there much info to be gleaned from her purse, wallet and cell content. That someone could have had two days to do it too. Her sister called to report her missing first....LE did a welfare check. Maybe the sister called to inform him she had done so and was just checking to see if she had returned or if he knew anything. The cell pinged at 5 PM, so what time did he call to report her missing?

 

[hollyblue]

The entire Tennessee River is navigable by boat, as well as Chickamauga Lake. In fact, it surprises me that someone would need a lake house four hours away when there is lakefront property available here and in Marion County, but I guess they liked Alabama.

I believe that was their very first house and prolly an investment as well as a get away. I was wondering how often they spent down there when they were in KY? It's really cute and apparently one of the first built in that area. (1930's) I can understand how she loved to be there.

 

[glorias]

Er....I don't think Matt wanted to chill out.........prolly quite the opposite.

Matt was working, so if Gail went to the lake house in AL who would watch the kids since they were still in school? Knowing what we do...would you leave your kids with him?

I still think it has to do with a "planned" week-end argument so they would be apart.....then Matt could do what he wanted to. Been there and they seem to conveniently pick Fridays. IMO.

Exactly, I'm thinking the same thing. He was working and was very likely looking to get down more than chill out, so why didn't he find a place to stay without the wife and kids? One possibility is that he wanted the TN home himself and Gail wanted it too because of the kids, so they ended up sharing it even though they were separating. And I agree with your opinion that both arguments have a whiff of a tantrum to change plans at the last minute.

 

[jeni4smith]

Exactly, I'm thinking the same thing. He was working and was very likely looking to get down more than chill out, so why didn't he find a place to stay without the wife and kids? One possibility is that he wanted the TN home himself and Gail wanted it too because of the kids, so they ended up sharing it even though they were separating. And I agree with your opinion that both arguments have a whiff of a tantrum to change plans at the last minute.

I would just like to throw a few thoughts out there. There is a lot of speculation about the state of the relationship between GP and MP. There are a lot of things that we know: they were not getting along, they were in the process of a separation, etc. There are a lot of points that seem logical like the gf scenario. Being married myself I've had points in my marriage where I was close to being separated and our fights have gotten pretty heated. I know that for me, during those times, we would BOTH go into a mode where we were not going to let the other get the best of us. We would begin to argue over petty stuff and it would definitely take both of us to be engaged in this in order to take an argument to a place that was hostile and on the borderline of someone picking up the phone and calling 911. Does that make sense?

I can imagine that life wasn't wonderful for either of them, but maybe they were trying to keep things together until the kids finished school. As a teacher, I can attest that the end of the school year is stressful for everyone, so maybe that's why they were holding it together. I can understand the "whiff of a tantrum", but that tantrum can go both ways.

Think about this... there has been a lot of discussion about "control" on here. If MP was having an affair, wouldn't GP be more likely to be the one seeking control? I am not saying she was controlling, I just know that if I was in her shoes with what we know, I'll be darned if I am going to make life easy on my husband. If she was willing to tell people that she thought that he was having an affair then she wasn't in a place of wanting to protect his reputation. I would want my husband to look horrible, wouldn't you? Calling 911 in an argument could be a way of gaining control and making him look bad.

It is my hope in all of this that she is safe somewhere. It is my hope that she wanted to get away and get back at MP and wanted to have a sense of control in a spiraling situation. Maybe she didn't intend to be gone long, but things just took off with her being reported missing and such. I really, really hope that's the case.

Just some thoughts, completely imo.

 

[Columbo]

MP may have kept them with him to make sure she did come back. It was the police who suggested the split and maybe her opportunity to get out of town for a few days and threw stuff together. If they frequent the lake house as talked about, I imagine you would keep clothes there as well. Thinking either with no electricity for a day or so and storms for two of those days, I am sure they had cabin fever, I know we did.

Could it be possible that the change of address forms for the IRA accounts and/or new pin notifications came in the mail Friday afternoon and why she was demanded to return as soon as the kids woke up the next morning? No doubt he would be livid.

It should be enlightening to hear about the money situation if it ever comes out, since there are rumors on the mountain. I am hoping it will not and GP will return after a much needed psychological need to decompress.

bolded by me.

From what I understood, the change of address form was a Post Office change of address form for Gail ( the ones they provide to someone who is moving--where she actually changed her address), not change of address forms for IRA accounts, which would come from the bank or mutual fund where they were held.

Please correct me if I am wrong. There was a lot of discussion about this earlier on, because Gail would have had to fill out the forms before noon on April 30, which was a Saturday and the PO closed at noon.

What you're saying actually makes more sense to me because it's hard to fit going to the PO to fill out change of address forms into her schedule and the time frame on April 30--when she was driving back from the lake, etc. Unless she had gone in the previous week to fill out the forms, left them at the PO and they didn't process them for a few days.

 

[JBean]

bolded by me.

From what I understood, the change of address form was a Post Office change of address form for Gail ( the ones they provide to someone who is moving--where she actually changed her address), not change of address forms for IRA accounts, which would come from the bank or mutual fund where they were held.

Please correct me if I am wrong. There was a lot of discussion about this earlier on, because Gail would have had to fill out the forms before noon on April 30, which was a Saturday and the PO closed at noon.

What you're saying actually makes more sense to me because it's hard to fit going to the PO to fill out change of address forms into her schedule and the time frame on April 30--when she was driving back from the lake, etc. Unless she had gone in the previous week to fill out the forms, left them at the PO and they didn't process them for a few days.

I think if the COA confirmation actually came in the mail, it is safe to assume she changed it online. My understanding is if you do it in person they do not send a notice. if you do it online they charge you $1.00 for authentication and send a notice in the mail to the old address.

 

[Columbo]

I think if the COA confirmation actually came in the mail, it is safe to assume she changed it online. My understanding is if you do it in person they do not send a notice. if you do it online they charge you $1.00 for authentication and send a notice in the mail to the old address.

Thanks, JBean. I guess I was not up to speed on how the PO does change of address now! (Last time I moved was 7 years ago...things have changed since then!)

 

[fran]

I think if the COA confirmation actually came in the mail, it is safe to assume she changed it online. My understanding is if you do it in person they do not send a notice. if you do it online they charge you $1.00 for authentication and send a notice in the mail to the old address.

Just for argument's sake, IF something happened to Gail on 4/30, it could very well have been anyone else that changed that address for HER.

I'm not saying it wasn't Gail, I'm saying her ADDRESS was changed ONLINE, that's {proof], that WE don't know who changed her address, but that it was done.

OTOH, it COULD have been Gail and when the address change notice was received, it was proof that Gail was planning on making a get-a-way from an unhappy marriage, but DID SHE GET THE CHANCE? That is the $64K question.

Where is Gail?

fran

 

[Columbo]

You know, it's interesting that they apparently had multiple fights revolving around the lake house, and there are these threads of info that just keep going back to the lake house. The April 22nd call where Matt wanted to take the Jeep by himself and not drive with the rest of the family to the house. Then the April 29th call which led to Gail and the kids leaving for the lake house. And the security DVR which Arlene now has must be from the lake house, since it was taken to an AL Best Buy. Also, those rumors about Matt driving to the lake house so he could talk to his girlfriend without the family around.

It's just that they were separated/separating yet still lived together despite owning two homes, which seems odd to me personally. You'd think one parent would stay there with the kids for school while the other would go chill out somewhere else. We know Matt was okay with spending money on hotels, so why didn't he get a hotel or a place of his own? Why did they get into fights just before going to the lake house? I don't know what conclusions (if any) I'm making, it's just a pattern I've noticed that doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe it's not a pattern at all.

Maybe there is more to these fights before going to the lake house than meets the eye. So far, I'm just tending to think that he felt trapped by his marriage, and the trips to the lake were like torture for him (poor baby) because he just didn't want to be there pretending to be a happy family. Going there was no longer a fun getaway. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[happy409]

Thanks, JBean. I guess I was not up to speed on how the PO does change of address now! (Last time I moved was 7 years ago...things have changed since then!)

Me too! I suggested the IRA Statements since (it was local rumor) but I only speculated.

I have never heard they send a verification to the old address, and if you are moving, why do so? Based on the USPS.com website, the $1.00 charge is correct, but must be the address on the CC and only to verify you are legally at that address and have the right to do so (with legalese). That makes sense, so not just anyone can change an address (even though the PO up here knows everyone) but they usually are sent down to the main post office on Shallowford Road, having personal experience. I have always turned in a card, so unaware they send a verification. But, IF GP did it on the 30th, it wouldn't have shown up in their house mail box for days later, most likely coming from the main branch (can someone provide information they do in fact send a card to the old address?) It did state you had to have an e-mail address (did GP & MP have access to each other's?). Interesting to say the least! So the million dollar question is, WHAT address was the NEW ONE?

Standard authorization verbiage and privacy policy for online change of address: https://moversguide.usps.com/icoa/icoa-main-flow.do?execution=e1s1

 

[JBean]

Me too! I suggested the IRA Statements since (it was local rumor) but I only speculated.

I have never heard they send a verification to the old address, and if you are moving, why do so? Based on the USPS.com website, the $1.00 charge is correct, but must be the address on the CC and only to verify you are legally at that address and have the right to do so (with legalese). That makes sense, so not just anyone can change an address (even though the PO up here knows everyone) but they usually are sent down to the main post office on Shallowford Road, having personal experience. I have always turned in a card, so unaware they send a verification. But, IF GP did it on the 30th, it wouldn't have shown up in their house mail box for days later, most likely coming from the main branch (can someone provide information they do in fact send a card to the old address?) It did state you had to have an e-mail address (did GP & MP have access to each other's?). Interesting to say the least! So the million dollar question is, WHAT address was the NEW ONE?

Standard authorization verbiage and privacy policy for online change of address: https://moversguide.usps.com/icoa/icoa-main-flow.do?execution=e1s1

I can confirm that the PO sends a snail mail address change notification to the old address when it is changed online. We do this at my office several times a month and I personally moved just last year. It just tells you to disregard if you made the change. I also had to make a change for every single person in my household to make sure all mail was forwarded.

But the $1.00 charge on the CC does not confirm the old address it only confirms your identity in the event of a fraud. They know where to find you LOL.

I think another member here said that when you go into the PO they do not follow up with a snail mail notice.

As for the address change itself, my best guess is that she just changed it to a friends addy. Much like she left things at friend's homes, it seems to me she would do the same with mail.