What questions are still unanswered?

[kant]

If Krystal Holloway was such a "great volunteer," as George claims, in the efforts of looking for Caylee and GA needed to comfort her for her illness and administering said comfort required his going to her residence, why didnt Cindy go to Holloway's residence too?

Additionally, I've heard that there is a quite common custom in which some folks send flowers and a get-well card to express their get-well wishes and sentiments.

*cough*

Why didnt Cindy go? Good grief, if for no other reason, than for avoiding the risk of implication of even LOOKING like... um.... impropriety.

And were there no other "great volunteers" who had personal dramas, illnesses, situations, that required a home visit of comfort from george?

blarg, george.

gack

and blarg.

moo

 

[DIXIECAT]

bbm

I believe ICA always had problems with her father..He saw her for what she was vs CA..He was on to her lying & ICA didn't like that..I think she saw him as a :loser: too but that's pretty funny coming from one!

Aren't there some mental conditions that begin around the 20's? I recall reading that..We've heard she began lying fairly early on but that doesn't always=something seriously wrong with her..Some ppl are just liars & they don't always learn it from others either..It could be just coincidence that later on other far more serious symptoms began to emerge.

You might be thinking of Schizophrenia, which is often first diagnosed in young adults at stressful life markers, such as going away to college or getting married. IMO she did not show any major symptoms, such as isolation and/or audio/visual hallucinations. Of course, she DID have an imaginary job and nanny.... :woohoo:

 

[theBritster]

The question that's always bugged me is: Why didn't ICA run after killing the baby?? Nobody could be that stupid to think they could stay and have no one from her family find her or ask questions, could they?

I don't think ICA cares about anyone but herself so I don't think she would have had any problem cutting ties with TL, family, and friends and leaving with the money she stole from Amy. I'm sure it wouldn't have gotten her far but it seems like ICA was good at finding naive people to take advantage of, so I think she would have been fine starting over. I believe she would have gotten away with murder if she had fled. I wonder why she didn't??

 

[NotRocketSighence]

"In an interview with investigators in Orange County, on July 31, 2008, Jesse Grund said, "I think if something happened to Caylee, her one toe that she's had in reality for the last couple years, her one foot would be gone and she would be completely in her own separate world. I think uh, that's because Casey directly has some issues that mentally she's never gotten taken care of. So, I do believe something accidentally happened to Caylee, which I believe is a what if scenario that could have happened.

My unanswered question is if Jesse thought this or figured this out about Casey why it wasn't further explored on a psychological level by the defense. Maybe they did and nothing substantial came of it.

No psychological evaluation testimony was offered from anyone who evaluated Casey after her first arrest (or after the remains were found)

I would of thought this would be a no brainer and would have helped explain her mental status and her behavior in the 31 days (regardless of whether you go with Caylee was missing or dead)

 

[kant]

You know, I used to wonder if Caylee was killed by mistake. Perhaps drugged and od'd by mistake. But just tonite I was thinking about this and that no longer makes sense to me. I now believe whole heartedly that Caylee was killed on purpose.

Think about it. GA saw KC leave around 1 something pm with Caylee. I believe GA. By evening Caylee was no longer seen with KC and she went off with her boyfriend. That means she had to be killed the afternoon of the 16th after GA went to work. KC would have no need to drug Caylee that time of day. The boyfriend wasn't around at that time. The parents were gone to work. There was no reason to accidently od Caylee on anything at that time of day.

So it had to be on purpose. She had to have been thinking about this and did it on purpose while she had the chance and the parents were away. Either she was PO'd at the mom from this so called fight that I haven't heard proof of or she wanted to be free of Caylee so she could be with the boyfriend that night. But there is no way it was an accident that time of day since there was no partying or carousing going on at that time of day. 1st degree murder.

I think George is lying about when he last saw ICA leaving with Caylee.

I wish I had the clip (anyone?) in which GA describes in excruciating detail what ICA and /or Caylee were wearing on what would have been, at the time a routine day.

And he's a man. I've heard women describe ensembles, but dudes?

Iow, I can see a man (or woman) remembering what someone wore if there were some outstanding reason AT THE TIME to recall it at all.

Like, daughter's prom dress..... a wow memory moment.

Or unless someone is dressed so atrociously that is remarkable in its ghastliness, for example - like a yikes moment. (Some parents, rightly so, have those OMG! reactions over certain outfits that their kids wear and the outfits are memorable) But that doesnt seem applicable here.

But at that time (before anything supposedly had happened) he had no reason to recall in such detail what they were wearing. sheesh..

I say supposedly bc I think ICA and Caylee had left already and Caylee may have already been killed.

moo

 

[natsound]

1. Who made the computer searches for the escort services?
2. Exactly where was Caylee killed? All we know is that it happened between 12:30 pm and 4-ish on June 16, and it happened in Orlando.
3. Who is Caylee's dad?
4. Casey used the name Zanny long before she killed Caylee. However, a woman named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez happened to visit the Sawgrass Apartments, and sign the register, 2-3 days after Caylee was killed. No one in the apartment office ever saw Casey come in and look at the guest registry to see Zenaida's name. How did Casey get her name?

 

[natsound]

The question that's always bugged me is: Why didn't ICA run after killing the baby?? Nobody could be that stupid to think they could stay and have no one from her family find her or ask questions, could they?

I don't think ICA cares about anyone but herself so I don't think she would have had any problem cutting ties with TL, family, and friends and leaving with the money she stole from Amy. I'm sure it wouldn't have gotten her far but it seems like ICA was good at finding naive people to take advantage of, so I think she would have been fine starting over. I believe she would have gotten away with murder if she had fled. I wonder why she didn't??

Because she didn't want to leave! She loved her life working as a shot girl at Fusian and sleeping over at Tony's. She couldn't do that with the burden of a child.

KC lived her life in ten-minute stretches. She got away with it day by day. In her diary entry, she wrote she didn't regret what she had done (never specifying what it was), but she was "just a little scared", and finally happy.

 

[magnolia]

I just started reading Diane Fanning's book about this case last night, having ordered a used copy from Amazon which arrived yesterday.

From reading about Casey's early life, there is absolutely nothing that stands out until her senior year in high school, when friends say she stopped going to classes, and ultimately did not graduate. Yet there is not so much as a clue as to what these problems are about or what started them. In school, up until her senior year, Casey seems to have been a very average girl, ran track, hung out with girlfriends, talked about boys, etc...and a year or so later, she is pregnant and no one acknowledges it.

So it appears that whatever happened to Casey to make her the way she is now either happened when she was 18, or came to a boil at that time. It was apparent, from the book, that Cindy ruled the roost and everyone deferred to her. She herself had been a pampered only girl child in a house full of boys.

It's just really hard to see the progression of a "typical" sociopath here...usually there are countless incidents during the years of between maybe 10-16 years of age that point to a deranged personality. Perhaps Casey did have some such incidents, but if so, there is no sign of them, no rumors, no stories that came out later. Very surprising to me and leaves a lot of questions.

I just recently read the e-mail exchange between Cindy and her brother. The brother seemed to indicate Casey had been a problem for quite awhile. He did not indicate for how long though. I think Cindy turned her head. George never thought Casey was capable of harming Caylee, but,he realized something was not quite right. I think she caused a lot of problems between her mom and dad. Were there other times Casey set George up to take the fall for something she did? I believe George may have been afraid of Casey. If so,his fear was justified. Look what she did to him in Court.

???????

 

[norcat]

1. What were her activities when she was supposed to be at work?

2. What happened the week previous to Caylee missing?

3. How much money did she "borrow" from her mom and family?

4. When did she dispose of the body?

Too many unanswered questions.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

If Krystal Holloway was such a "great volunteer," as George claims, in the efforts of looking for Caylee and GA needed to comfort her for her illness and administering said comfort required his going to her residence, why didnt Cindy go to Holloway's residence too?

Additionally, I've heard that there is a quite common custom in which some folks send flowers and a get-well card to express their get-well wishes and sentiments.

*cough*

Why didnt Cindy go? Good grief, if for no other reason, than for avoiding the risk of implication of even LOOKING like... um.... impropriety.

And were there no other "great volunteers" who had personal dramas, illnesses, situations, that required a home visit of comfort from george?

blarg, george.

gack

and blarg.

moo

Hi kant!:seeya:

LOL at gack and blarg!:floorlaugh:

I agree wtih you. There is NO reason for a man to make clandestine visits to a volunteers home without his wife present.

My ex encouraged his mistress and hubby to socialize with us just so they could be together and in a mistaken effort to gain trust from the spouses. "Nothing to see here!" But I knew. My woman's instinct is not to be disputed. Too many business trips with just the two of them.

My mom and I watched an interview with Rev. Billy Graham years ago. His policy was to NEVER close the door to his office when only he and a woman were present. Mom said, he's right, if there's nothing to hide then why close the door?

Gack! Blarg! I don't buy GA's comforting story. but I am probably a bit jaded.

MOO

wm

ETA To stay on topic I would like to know why GA didn't call 911 when he recognized the decomp smell in the car but instead went to work when his daughter and granddaughter were missing.

 

[Scamperoo]

I don't have a moments misgiving the SA proved their case beyond ANY doubt whatsoever.

When I see the opinion "I know she did something I just don't know what" It makes me wonder how much evidence people need to realize she needs to be incarcerated forever.


1. The duct tape was around Caylee's mouth, if, as the DT would have us believe it migrated there, Caylee's jaw would already have been disarticulated. It could not have scooped up the lower mandible and repositioned it anatomically perfectly.

2. There is no reason to duct tape a little girl unless, a. You want to go out and party and this is the best baby sitter you can get or b. You are a resentful *advertiser censored* who wants to be mommy's little girl forever and snot nose has usurped your position in the family.
Either way it is murder 1

3. If it were an accident you wouldn't need to hide the body, no one I know would coverup an accident with a murder, not even if you were scared of your mother.

The fact we never saw this happen means nothing, there is no other explanation, there was duct tape on Caylee because mommy put it there. The only thing we don't know 100% is did she use the chloroform that day or not but we know the probability was she did at some time use it.

I have never had any doubt Cindy knew or suspected before anyone that KC had murdered her baby.

I never for one moment thought this was an accident and I wouldn't need to see anything else, it is proved beyond reasonable doubt. It really doesn't matter if the duct tape or chloroform killed her we just know she did kill Caylee one way or another and that's enough with all the aggravating circumstances for 1st deg. murder.

 

[amysmom]

I just recently read the e-mail exchange between Cindy and her brother. The brother seemed to indicate Casey had been a problem for quite awhile. He did not indicate for how long though. I think Cindy turned her head. George never thought Casey was capable of harming Caylee, but,he realized something was not quite right. I think she caused a lot of problems between her mom and dad. Were there other times Casey set George up to take the fall for something she did? I believe George may have been afraid of Casey. If so,his fear was justified. Look what she did to him in Court.

???????

Other relatives say ICA wasn't "quite right"=odd duck at a young age..I'm sure ICA setup her father on many occasions causing huge rifts between him & ICA..It does go to show she HATED him for most of her life & it had nothing at all to do with "sex abuse".

She played the ultimate HATE YOU card on him in court..She must be :crazy: to think he'd EVER go along with it & TG! he did not!

 

[amysmom]

1. The duct tape was around Caylee's mouth, if, as the DT would have us believe it migrated there, Caylee's jaw would already have been disarticulated. It could not have scooped up the lower mandible and repositioned it anatomically perfectly.

sbm

Exactly! And why Spitz came off looking :crazy: when he said someone could've done it at some later time.

Even if it was originally on the bag vs her face there's no way for it to end up where it did.

I'm sure the state will make it very clear there's only ONE way for that tape to be where it was eventually found on Caylee.

 

[DawnTCB]

I still want to know what was the big news LA decided to run to JB with mid-trial. I think that moment changed CA from a state witness to a defense witness.

And FWIW, I used to be a fairly avid scrapbooker, and I have a collection of acetone-based products I used as an adhesive remover (like when you place a sticker somewhere and change your mind and want to remove it without ripping the paper). I found the acetone-only ones to be the the least useful at removing the stickers without damage, but they were by far the cheapest and the most widely available at the art stores.

 

[Mare10]

I'd like to know how Ginger and Cinnamon died. Lee while on the stand said that he was present at the burial of his grandmother pet. His wording bothered me. He said it was similar circumstances but that was given to us by the vet. I'm not sure what was meant by those words, that the wrapping was the same or the pet's death was similar and then given to them wrapped by the vet. I would love to have heard from Kiomarie about the pets they buried in the swamp, wore black and prayed for them. What pets were these and how many were there.

 

[Ambiance]

I want to know why on July 16, 2008, less than 24 hours after Caylee was reported missing, Cindy repeatedly called Yuri Melich to inform him that she found the pool ladder up when she came home from work on June 16. A story her co-workers could verify she told them at the time.

Why did Cindy remember such detail on Father's Day including Casey and her crying over a video of a living Caylee with her Great Grandpa but forgot the last time she saw Caylee was "Father's Day" or what she fixed Caylee for dinner that night?

Why did George either lie or could not recall anything that made him look bad? George refusing to admit to anything related to the duct tape or couldn't recall how they prepared their family pets? If George did not have anything to hide, why hide?

Finally, once the "suicide"note was admitted into evidence under the dying declaration hearsay, why did the defense not call an expert to testify about the "suicide" note.

omg - you hit the nail on the head - he lost credibility with me because of that

 

[mimmy03]

I didn't read your post when I posted my thoughts and our concerns are similar. Did Casey walk through the edge of the woods behind her house to get to the area where Caylee was found? Carrying the body would have been awkward and heavy for Casey if Caylee was in a garbage bag. The laundry bag was likely used to carry her using her shoulder if there is a loop on the bag. Someone must have seen or heard something. Someone gagging/vomiting. Dogs barking in their yards. Something.

My guess it was at night and she drove her car and dumped her. If she walked the edge of the woods behind the houses why would she be so close to the road then instead of deeper into the woods. Too much work for bad results.

 

[mimmy03]

"She's sat, rotting in jail for 3 years" on some ACCIDENT? Yes, that too is another great nail in her coffin.

If it was an accident, she could have taken the stand and said it. She didn't even do that! "I waited 31 days - why not wait 3 more years" - that is the Duhfense's position!

Ridiculous.

Cindy lying about searches proves even Cindy believes Casey was thinking of murdering Caylee.

Sitting in jail for 3 years when it was an accident? Take the stand and say that! Nope - NOT saying it convinces me all the more.

I agree. If it truly were an accident she wouldn't have concocted such a crazy story that came out in OS. She would just have admitted it was an accident and come clean. But instead she had to keep her hands completely clean and blame others like she's done all along b/c it's NEVER her fault.

 

[mimmy03]

omg - you hit the nail on the head - he lost credibility with me because of that

i think (in regards to recalling about the pets burial) he probably doesn't recall b/c it was so long ago and men don't recall details that aren't important to them... not like women anyway. jmo.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I don't know where nor how ICA killed Caylee but she just flat out killed her. It was not an accident. MOO