WA WA - Seattle, WhtFem 30-50, 159UFWA, alias 'Mary Anderson', copper IUD, breast surgery scars, Oct'96

[tierneysain]

I would be more than happy to look into doing this. I would first have to research and find out what I can and cannot do, I don't want to make anyone mad. But, I don't work and have time to research and give it a shot.

 

[Kodiak]

I would be more than happy to look into doing this. I would first have to research and find out what I can and cannot do, I don't want to make anyone mad. But, I don't work and have time to research and give it a shot.

Please, feel free to do so. No one here is stopping you, nor giving anyone specific orders. ;-) I'm so glad you decided to help us. It's another step closer in giving Mary Anderson's true identity back to her, and her loved ones too.

 

[tierneysain]

Thank you, will keep you updated on what I do and find out.

 

[websurfer]

1. Mary A. was perhaps a BLACK SHEEP in the LAUDER family?
2. Mary was having an affair with someone [ male/female]
in the LAUDER family?
3. Mary, was hired help in the Lauder family?

After researching on Wikipedia about Estee Lauder these surnames showed up.Maybe there is a connection to Mary and one or more of them?

Mentzer
Rosenthal
Shotz
Lauter[ the name os Esty's husband]
she changed her name from Josephine Esther( Mentzer) Lauter
to the person nopw known as Estee`Lauder

I have not seen any children?
Perhaps with deeper digging someone can find her OBIT?
and please add to the info here in this forum?
So, basically, this Mary Anderson [ could be] connected to the family somehow?

Hence the facination with the cosmetic line?
OH!
Also everyone please [ if you have any of the products she had with her\on her/ whatever.

Please post the comparisons of all the addresses and phone numbers
listed on the labels.

say:
she saw the contact info for METAMUCIL?
ESTEE LAUDER?
CRYSTAL LIGHT?
the clothing?

and took the numbers from those?

she seems to use the numbers
132
1113
third[3]
(212)= 3 +2 or ='s 5 ?
569= 20
5549= 23

these are the numbers she is associated with
they do seem to be repeats not random numbers?
so?
Is this her important life dates?
Do they open the door to her life somehow?

either it is her Birth dates?
significant dates?
something is in the num,bers that will lead to her ID..
I do not have any of the items to look uop the contyact on the labels.
Please do so and let's see if she did this numbers from them?
thanks!
WS

 

[justthinkin]

Kodiak, any updates?

I checked, and the Gideons distribute the King James version of the bible. So still leaves open the question of whether or not the bible Mary had was hers or belonged to the hotel. Then perhaps this has already been cleared up, and I'm just not aware of it.

 

[Chloekins]

I believe that this woman was from NYC originally. She may not have lived in this city for many years. The reason I say this is because of simple reasoning. I myself grew up in NYC but have not lived there in quite a few years. If I were to hide my identity or place of origin what better place than to be from NYC? A city that large would require at least a passing idea of both area codes for phone numbers and also zip codes. I could not tell you the zip/area code for Miami or Los Angeles but I can sure tell you my zip/area code from NYC when I was a child. I also could tell you the zip/area codes that were from around the area I lived in. The zip code provided could have been from the areas around the zip code in which she lived. I believe that the 212 area code given in the phone number are indeed a valid area code, however, the following numbers are probably made up.

We have to remember that this was a time before wide spread use of the internet. Information was not as disseminated as it is today. It is unlikely that this woman would have intimate knowledge of such mundane things as zip/area codes for cities in which she was not familiar with. Therefore the idea that she either was currently living in NYC, had lived there in the past, or frequented the area for business/pleasure makes the most sense.

The use of IUDs has increased over the years but in the 90s it was still a relatively obscure form of birth control (i.e. not heavily marketed in the US) compared to say OCP and condoms. In NYC, however, many gynecologists implanted IUDs because NYC was the hub of a lot of IUD research. Lastly, IUDs were expensive in the 90s as it requires not only a doctor to implant it but regular checkups to check for continued proper placement and risk of infection. She would have been a regular patient with her gynecologist of that I have no doubt.

The breast augmentation surgery based on the description of the scars makes me think of only one type of surgery. Two two incision scars mentioned are the areaolar (around the nipple) and under the breast. Breast reduction and/or lift both require an anchor incision. This is a lateral incision in the breast crease (under the breast) and a veritcal incision from the areola to the crease. No vertical scar is mentioned, therefore, I would conclude that no reduction/lift had been done even though there is nipple realignment. My guess would be that this woman had implants at some time. The fact that she had no implants mentioned on PM would lead me to believe that the implants had been removed at a later time. This would be logical if we remember the silcone implant dangers and lawsuits of the 90s.

Both the IUD and the history of breast augmentation logically allows me to assume that this lady had more than a passing acquaintance with money. Both IUD upkeep and breast surgery are commonplace and affordable now but they certainly were not the average consumers purchase in the 80s and 90s. Id like to point out that NYC is not an inexpensive place to live.

Lastly, the use of Mary Anderson in my opinion has no significant meaning. To me it is the equivalent of John Smith. It is a combination of two very common names. It is one of the most bland names I can think of and certainly wouldn't be too difficult to think of off the top of my head if I was pressed to give a pseudonym.

Chloe

 

[justthinkin]

Chloe, I do agree. I too, think she was from NYC. For some time now, it's been my feeling that this Jane Doe was in a long term relationship with a married man, probably one who'd professed to her that he would one day leave his wife, perhaps when their children were grown. Either he was killed or something else happened that ended the relationship. I think she'd built her entire life around him, and when the relationship ended, she took her own life.

Something makes me think that her lover was still living--the note she left behind saying her death was no one's fault. And yet, I believe she'd hoped her death would hurt him, and hurt him deeply. By giving a NYC address, she must have thought word of her death would reach NYC. Did it suddenly sink into her that she'd wasted her life or the best years of her life? I think so.

Perhaps our Mary had lived a life of quiet desperation. Sigh.

 

[drbuzz0]

I really think you are looking for someone with some kind of medical or biological scientific background. Not necessarily a doctor or scientist, but perhaps a lab technician, a nurse, an administrator of some kind.

I say this for two reasons:

1. Cyanide is not the easiest stuff to come by. Today you could find a chemical supplier on the internet, but in 1996 you'd have to have access to chemical suppliers and just walking in and asking for potassium cyanide would not be likely to get you it. You'd need a legitimate reason to buy it. Possibly analytical chemistry, gold refining, entomology and a few other things.

It's not the kind of thing most people would think to use to end their lives, but it's effective and very very rapid.

2. The phrase "you may use my body." Why use? Why not "dispose of" or "do with" or something like that?

Human bodies have uses, many. They may be harvested for tissue (not likely in someone who had decayed for a while and was of unknown background, not to mention poisoned), and they may be used as educational cadavers in medical schools. Parts of bodies may be preserved as anatomical specimens or prepared and photographed for medical text books. Even skeletons may be stripped and used as classroom displays.

Yes, a dead body has uses, but would this occur to most people? I don't think so. It seems the kind of thing you'd have to have some kind of biological or medical background to even think of.

 

[MargotKidder]

Kodiak,

I wanted to make a suggestion for you. I feel as if Mary Anderson came back to Seattle for a reason, even if she did live in New York for a certain amount of time. I would imagine and brainstorm that perhaps someone close to her had died there, maybe a lover or a family member. There may have been a funeral to attend, and to elaborate on what a previous poster suggested on a court date, did you ever consider that she may have returned to Seattle to handle business in a court for probate of an estate in which she was a beneficiary? If I were on the ground there, I would begin looking at closed estates for the week that she was there. Perhaps, she came into Seattle to finish this up, stay with relatives or friends for whatever--funeral or probate--left them, checked into the hotel and committed suicide. Maybe she really did not have any immediate family, her lover had died, and she finished the business of his estate and suicide was the finality to her sadness.

 

[MargotKidder]

By the way, Mary Anderson/Jane Doe's case is still not in NAMUS yet.

 

[Ambercat]

Mary Anderson did have a prescription bottle with the label torn off.

I wonder if, even though the label was missing, if you could tell which pharmacy it was from and narrow down where she came from.

 

[webrocket]

a few observations.

one, it probably was breast reduction surgery since scars were located on the underside of the breast and by the nipples.

two, the IUD contraceptives were very effective before taken off the market. they might have cost more up front but require little maintenance.

three, the street address is in zip code 10003, so she might have gotten it wrong if she had been away from NYC for a while.

four, she looks Jewish to me. I could theorize about a number of things but won't post them here. suffice it to say that with the exception of Orthodox Jews, Jewish families tend to be small so it would not surprise me if she had no siblings.

 

[Ambercat]

1. Mary A. was perhaps a BLACK SHEEP in the LAUDER family?
2. Mary was having an affair with someone [ male/female]
in the LAUDER family?
3. Mary, was hired help in the Lauder family?

After researching on Wikipedia about Estee Lauder these surnames showed up.Maybe there is a connection to Mary and one or more of them?

Mentzer
Rosenthal
Shotz
Lauter[ the name os Esty's husband]
she changed her name from Josephine Esther( Mentzer) Lauter
to the person nopw known as Estee`Lauder

I have not seen any children?
Perhaps with deeper digging someone can find her OBIT?
and please add to the info here in this forum?
So, basically, this Mary Anderson [ could be] connected to the family somehow?

Hence the facination with the cosmetic line?

I really don't (IMHO) feel that she was a member of the Lauder family because the Lauder family is very Jewish and Mary had a Bible open (which to me implies that she is Christian, I guess I could be wrong about this because she does sort of have a look that a lot of Jewish women do and I believe that she is from New York, so I really might be completely off on this).

I really think that too much is being made of her makeup. Most women use the brands that work best for them and everyone is different. Also, a lot of times, especially back in the late 1980s and 1990s, if you purchased a certain amount of products, you would get a bunch of other stuff free (maybe that is why she had so much Estee Lauder products).

 

[webrocket]

I really don't (IMHO) feel that she was a member of the Lauder family because the Lauder family is very Jewish and Mary had a Bible open (which to me implies that she is Christian, I guess I could be wrong about this because she does sort of have a look that a lot of Jewish women do and I believe that she is from New York, so I really might be completely off on this).

Psalm 23 is in the Book of Psalms which is in the Old Testament.

 

[Cubby]

Did not see this link reposted. (broken earlier, found it working here:

http://meyahna.tripod.com/pg19.html

 

[Cubby]

Upthread, someone mentioned possible breast implants or removing of breast implants. Having known someone who had breast reduction surgery about 8-10 years ago, she told me she does not have a vertical scar. Her other scarring is similiar to the UID's. I'm unsure if that may be to dating when the surgery was performed or due to the possible type of surgery. In my friends case it was covered by medical insurance due to back problems. With this UID's weight and ht, I wonder if her surgery may also have been covered by medical insurance.

I'm not really familiar with this case but after having a quick read through my impressions were someone born to later in life parents( based on grooming habits and choices of make up brands and colors). Possibly from a more conservative area along the east coast of the US or Canada who moved to the Western US or Western Canada embracing more liberal values. Maybe someone who chose not to have children due to her childhood.

I haven't read all the media links, but based on the questions asked throughout the thread has it ever been determined where she placed the call for a Cab and where the cab picked her up?

Where they ever able to determine how long the UID had been in place? I seem to recall an arm implant type of birthcontrol which had terrible side effects of tremendous weight gain and was eventually taken off the market. I don't recall the name. IIRC, at the time IUD's were offered again to those seeking to postpone childbearing for a longer period of time.

Was it ever determined if her weight was gained quickly, possibly as a result of some type of medication? Also, IIRC wasn't metamucil sometimes used to help with quick weight loss?

Just thinking outloud. Will definately give this case more consideration and hopefully some renewed interest can help move the case forward.

 

[webrocket]

I don't think "Mary" will ever be identified. I will take her at her word that she had no family so there is no one to report her missing. I suspect a parent died so she had no family left. being rather methodical, "Mary" no doubt vacated her apartment and got rid of her stuff, except the quirky items she had with her when she committed suicide.

 

[reasypeasy]

You have to wonder how she got the cyanide and why she chose to mix it with Metamucil? That's a fiber supplement you wouldn't expect someone in her age range to typically have around (someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Unless there's something about Metamucil that makes it especially effective to mix with cyanide, maybe she had some digestive ailment and that's why she chose it instead of something like juice or iced tea.

Maybe she wanted to make sure that no-one inadvertently tasted the dregs of her drink? Metamucil dregs look quite disgusting... goopy and yucky.

 

[Cubby]

I don't think "Mary" will ever be identified. I will take her at her word that she had no family so there is no one to report her missing. I suspect a parent died so she had no family left. being rather methodical, "Mary" no doubt vacated her apartment and got rid of her stuff, except the quirky items she had with her when she committed suicide.

I too had the same thoughts cross my mind. Perhaps losing a parent or an older partner.

 

[MargotKidder]

I think that she used the metamucil because at that time, was it not typically orange flavored? Maybe she thought that the cyanide would have a taste to it and the it would be eliminated by mixing it with it. But then again, who has lived to tell someone else the taste of cyanide, after they have tasted it?