Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

[Jstc4caylee]

I swear to you I am the worst thread killer. Or would that be the best thread killer. LOL. I post and the thread fades away. hahaha

Ah. that's just because after you speak, there's nothing left to say !

 

[Boodles]

I admit complete inability to see this from a jury's perspective since I have been exposed to so much more information. Therefore, I have no idea whether they might have reasonable doubt. I do think the defense was baffling in its presentations. Perhaps something stuck from an issue they raised. It didn't with me, but I am so biased by what I know. I think there is an excellent possibility of the aggravated child abuse resulting in death during the commission of a felony (or whatever that specific charge is). Premeditation is a long shot IMO.

 

[pinkflamingo]

There is no way that EVERY SINGLE ONE will buy into the defense theory. So, they have another trial. She will sit in jail... and sit... and sit. And then they will retry the case over and over until she is found guilty.

 

[SarahEcho]

I do think there is a lot of play in this and I believe that there is some power of suggestion in having quite a variety of charges to consider.

I think it cuts both ways in that it's not all or nothing but also the state intentionally is consenting that things may not be as they say and a reasonable person may find culpability less than you reserve for the "crazy" Ted Bundy. All those charges also suggest that there is one in there that should be just Casey Anthony's size and fit her like a glass slipper that's about to shatter.

 

[SarahEcho]

There is no way that EVERY SINGLE ONE will buy into the defense theory. So, they have another trial. She will sit in jail... and sit... and sit. And then they will retry the case over and over until she is found guilty.

At some point though, usually after the second or third go around, malicious prosecution comes into play. It's very expensive to try these types of cases, hundreds of thousands just for the jurors alone, plea bargain might be a better option at the point once the jury, or second jury, has been polled.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I do think there is a lot of play in this and I believe that there is some power of suggestion in having quite a variety of charges to consider.

I think it cuts both ways in that it's not all or nothing but also the state intentionally is consenting that things may not be as they say and a reasonable person may find culpability less than you reserve for the "crazy" Ted Bundy. All those charges also suggest that there is one in there that should be just Casey Anthony's size and fit her like a glass slipper that's about to shatter.

That's a very excellent observation... I hadn't really thought about that, but I think you're right.

 

[Faenorwyn]

No, I do not think the defense has created reasonable doubt, unless the jurors are doing some "magical thinking".....JMO

 

[minazoe]

no doubt, nothing to reason, this girl should never be allowed back into society.

i don't think the defense helped casey and she will have another go at this...but prison will not change her, she will victimize even more people if she can get a chance.

Lucretia McEvil

 

[gitana1]

Because she thought she still had a chance to get off completely on the homicide charges? After the 31 days, there was no way she was going to be able to get out of a negligent homicide charge. Besides, she didn't know then that it was going to take three years to go to trial. Impulsive decision, without thinking about the long term consequences... Isn't pretty much her style? Again, I don't buy the DT's story, but this isn't proof of murder to me. MOO

You are right. Her failure to call 911 is not proof of murder. Neither is her failure to ever report her child missing. Neither were her intense attempts to mislead law enforcement who were desperate to find Caylee. casey's continual lies for months, to her mom and dad and Lee about what happened to Caylee and her efforts to send them on a wild goose chase, do not prove murder either.

Neither do searches on the internet, months before her daughter's death, for chloroform, neck breaking, inhalation, death, etc.

And high peaks of a volatile chemical like chloroform, found in the trunk of casey's car, actually causing the state to search the Anthony computers for chloroform queries, well, that's not proof of murder either.

The smell of death coming out of the car that only casey drove for the 31 days before Caylee was reported missing, that does not prove murder.

casey's attempts to cover up that smell, by mentioning a dead squirrel, by dumping the car next to a garbage receptacle, that also does not prove murder.

Showing no terror, panic, grief or concern for her dead child in the 31 days after she went missing, that does not prove murder.

Showing nothing but anger and annoyance during the time she was in jail, whenever concern was shown for Caylee rather than casey, well, that also doesn't prove murder.

Even a triple bagged body dumped in a swamp doesn't conclusively prove murder, although we are getting closer.

And finally, perhaps someone can argue that a tiny, two year old skull, found in the mud with duct tape around its nose and mouth holes, the degradable mandible still firmly attached to the the skull because of that duct tape, is not evidence of murder (although I would disagree). Yes, perhaps, one could argue that that duct taped skull is not in an of itself, proof of murder.

But no one here has ever argued that any one of each of those things I listed, proves murder, in and of itself.

What I believe they all show, however, when taken together, is probably obvious. And I have no doubt.

 

[katydid23]

I think Linda took all of the jurors back to the opening of the trial. Playing those calls were brilliant, imo. " I want Tony's number, you guys are a waste..all you care about is Caylee."

I truly believe that there is nothing in Jose's closing that could combat those jailhouse calls. It does not matter about any of the experts or Kronk's inconsistencies, or George and his gas cans---NONE OF THAT matters once they listened again to Casey and her petty, pathetic attempts to call Tony and her continued lies about Zanny and her vile criticiism of LE.. " If they would only listen to me and look for Zanny outside of Florida, bla bla bla."

Linda DB was KRYPTONITE to Jose B today.

 

[Leomoon80]

I agree, none of those items mentioned are evidence of a pre-meditated 1st degree murder which is what the State charged against C.A.
However, the preponderance of accumulated circumstantial evidence and lies perpetrated by C.A. will be more the evidence used against her.

In some way, she was responsible then, (imo), but the question is "Was it accidental?"
Regardless of her "ways" or personality. Everyone has some personality issues that others find fault with.
For Casey, there are many such "issues" but that's just personality and selfishness or immaturity, imo. to demand from her parents, attention be placed on her and her alone.

IMO, it's her personality showing through, and I don't think we should convict people based on their personalities.

 

[Jakpot]

IMO the jury will make the correct decision. Hopefully they will share with the public
how they arrived at it.

 

[katydid23]

I agree, none of those items mentioned are evidence of a pre-meditated 1st degree murder which is what the State charged against C.A.
However, the preponderance of accumulated circumstantial evidence and lies perpetrated by C.A. will be more the evidence used against her.

In some way, she was responsible then, (imo), but the question is "Was it accidental?"
Regardless of her "ways" or personality. Everyone has some personality issues that others find fault with.
For Casey, there are many such "issues" but that's just personality and selfishness or immaturity, imo. to demand from her parents, attention be placed on her and her alone.

IMO, it's her personality showing through, and I don't think we should convict people based on their personalities.

Well, IF her personality showed that she could do something as cold blooded as throwing her dead child in her trunk and in a trash filled swamp, then it is relevant to the case, imo. Her personality 'showing through' tells us quite a bit about her. How many people do you know that would not call for the EMT's if they found their child unconscious? And how many of those would slap duct tape around the dead child's face and wrap her in garbage bags? THAT takes a very special type of person to be able to do that. It is much more than immaturity, imo. Being able to go on a movie date, a mere hour or two after finding your child dead---that is more than immaturity, that is evil, imo.

 

[PhillygirlToo]

Let me tell you, right before Jose blew it by calling Jeff "laughing man," he had me doubting her guilt. But I quickly slapped myself.

But there are a few things I don't get. If Casey duct taped the baby's mouth, it would have had to be done at home because that's where they found the duct tape, unless she took a roll of it somewhere else. But no duct tape was found at Tony's, or in her car or anywhere else but the Anthony home. So, what, George leaves for work on that Monday, and she tapes up her mouth tosses her in the trunk and takes off for Tony's?

I also don't get that, if she was lying about working for two years, (1) didn't her parents wonder why she had no money, or (2) where did she GET her money, and (3) where were she and Caylee when she was supposed to be working?

I also don't get why, if you kill your kid with duct tape, you'd leave it on the body when you disposed of it. You have to KNOW it will be found some day. Removing the tape at least gives you a fighting chance at denial.

And the $64,000 question, WHY around the corner from your HOUSE?! How bizarre!

Jose would have done better to try her with an insanity defense because you'd have to be insane to do what she did, because the alternative is evil and stupid. And we KNOW she's not stupid. I have a real hard time believing she purposely killed her that way. But I don't have any problem thinking she killed her in an effort to get her to sleep.

 

[Baznme]

I've just realized today that some posters believe the chloroform in the trunk came from the household cleaners that CA may have used to clean the car after they got it home from the tow yard. Didn't the experts test the items recovered in the car AND the sections in the trunk carpet where the stain was for chloroform?

If they tested the items recovered like the trash bag (which I thought had residual amounts) wouldn't that indicate the chloroform was there BEFORE the car was cleaned?

 

[Tuffy]

Let me tell you, right before Jose blew it by calling Jeff "laughing man," he had me doubting her guilt. But I quickly slapped myself.

But there are a few things I don't get. If Casey duct taped the baby's mouth, it would have had to be done at home because that's where they found the duct tape, unless she took a roll of it somewhere else. But no duct tape was found at Tony's, or in her car or anywhere else but the Anthony home. So, what, George leaves for work on that Monday, and she tapes up her mouth tosses her in the trunk and takes off for Tony's?

I also don't get that, if she was lying about working for two years, (1) didn't her parents wonder why she had no money, or (2) where did she GET her money, and (3) where were she and Caylee when she was supposed to be working?

I also don't get why, if you kill your kid with duct tape, you'd leave it on the body when you disposed of it. You have to KNOW it will be found some day. Removing the tape at least gives you a fighting chance at denial.

And the $64,000 question, WHY around the corner from your HOUSE?! How bizarre!

Jose would have done better to try her with an insanity defense because you'd have to be insane to do what she did, because the alternative is evil and stupid. And we KNOW she's not stupid. I have a real hard time believing she purposely killed her that way. But I don't have any problem thinking she killed her in an effort to get her to sleep.

BBM:

We know that Casey used Cindy's credit cards, and from the sidebar transcripts released the other day, we heard that Casey had written hundreds of checks against Cindy's checking account.

They knew she wasn't working.

 

[Tuffy]

I've just realized today that some posters believe the chloroform in the trunk came from the household cleaners that CA may have used to clean the car after they got it home from the tow yard. Didn't the experts test the items recovered in the car AND the sections in the trunk carpet where the stain was for chloroform?

If they tested the items recovered like the trash bag (which I thought had residual amounts) wouldn't that indicate the chloroform was there BEFORE the car was cleaned?

Yes they did test them separately, Baznme. The chloroform was not from cleaners.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I've just realized today that some posters believe the chloroform in the trunk came from the household cleaners that CA may have used to clean the car after they got it home from the tow yard. Didn't the experts test the items recovered in the car AND the sections in the trunk carpet where the stain was for chloroform?

If they tested the items recovered like the trash bag (which I thought had residual amounts) wouldn't that indicate the chloroform was there BEFORE the car was cleaned?

Are you talking about the cheese and such? The way I understood it the defense expert was testifying that these items naturally contain trace amounts of chloroform, not that it was residue.

 

[D96s]

Let me tell you, right before Jose blew it by calling Jeff "laughing man," he had me doubting her guilt. But I quickly slapped myself.

But there are a few things I don't get. If Casey duct taped the baby's mouth, it would have had to be done at home because that's where they found the duct tape, unless she took a roll of it somewhere else. But no duct tape was found at Tony's, or in her car or anywhere else but the Anthony home. So, what, George leaves for work on that Monday, and she tapes up her mouth tosses her in the trunk and takes off for Tony's?

Yes, exactly. She has a date with Tony and Caylee was in the way. Cindy and George were becoming more suspicious of how she claimed her life was being spent (hard work and late night work spending the night with "Zanny", blah, blah blah) and they were not believing her stories of working late at night, blah, blah, blah. George was the most suspicious of her than all. Cindy was still saying, "Oh give her space" blah, blah, blah.

I also don't get that, if she was lying about working for two years, (1) didn't her parents wonder why she had no money, or (2) where did she GET her money, and (3) where were she and Caylee when she was supposed to be working? She could have easily suggested that all her money was being spent on the "nanny" to watch Caylee, blah, blah, blah. Clearly Cndy believed every thing Casey said

I also don't get why, if you kill your kid with duct tape, you'd leave it on the body when you disposed of it. You have to KNOW it will be found some day. Removing the tape at least gives you a fighting chance at denial. You are deducing that Casey was smart about being a criminal. Truth is, George with all his Police experience would have been more savy about criminal activity. He surely had experience in homicide investigations. He would have known NOT to use the duct tape from his own home.

And the $64,000 question, WHY around the corner from your HOUSE?! How bizarre! See above answer. Casey = not too bright when it comes to criminal activity. But, OBTW BRILLANT at lying.

Jose would have done better to try her with an insanity defense because you'd have to be insane to do what she did, because the alternative is evil and stupid. And we KNOW she's not stupid. I have a real hard time believing she purposely killed her that way. But I don't have any problem thinking she killed her in an effort to get her to sleep.

Again, she's not stupid when it comes to lying. Seh is clearly stupid when it comes to premeditated murder

 

[Baznme]

Yes they did test them separately, Baznme. The chloroform was not from cleaners.

And they were surprised they found it because it's so volitile? It was not in the bag but on the outside, correct?

I'm just questionning my own memory at this point. Some think her computer searches were just a curiosity after RM put that pic on Myspace. I disagree but I wanted to check with a few others to see if my memory was correct.

P.S. I might be curious to look something up even a couple of times, but not 84 times!