GUILTY Conrad Murray Trial - Verdict Watch

[~n/t~]

Geez. Cannot sleep again ....... grrr

Anyway have to disagree on the video and rehearsals. The Defense Team actually met with SONY for two weeks to review ALL of the clips from the rehearsals in an attempt to find bad clips to show that he was not in best form. They had boxes of film. They could not find even just ONE. All attorneys agreed that even a "bad" rehearsal was good and wound up not being able to use anything that would show MJ in a bad light. This was discussed in open court in a pre-trial hearing. If he was sick; he was not at rehearsal.

You can read the motions here:

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/cour...onrad+Murray&casenum=SA073164&date=2010-05-04

Jurors in the upcoming trial of Conrad Murray will not see unreleased footage of Michael’s final rehearsals, a judge ruled Monday. The defense had conceded the raw video did not depict the singer as sickly. Lawyers for Murray had reviewed 100 hours of outtakes from the Sony Pictures documentary This Is It for video consistent with their theory that a desperate Michael Jackson accidentally caused his own overdose from a surgical anesthetic.

But in comments to the media last week that he reiterated in court Monday, defense lawyer J. Michael Flanagan said Michael appeared healthy in rehearsals. “Even on his bad days, he’s good,” Flanagan said. He argued that jurors should still see four hours of footage that showed Michael was often absent from practice sessions in the 10 days before his death, but Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor disagreed and granted Sony’s request to quash the defense subpoenas.

http://www.legendarymichaeljackson.nl/?p=5528

bbm

If he was absent because he was sick how would that show up on rehearsal video? He wasn't there.

AEG was very concerned about his absence. They had a lot of money at stake here.

 

[~n/t~]

Sadly, many have failed him. Those who should have been there for him were not. It's one thing to come out after his death and support him but where were all his supporters when he was going through some of the toughest years of his life?

Remember the molestation trial? Remember when he showed up in pajamas? He was ridiculed, laughed at. Didn't some radio stations ban his music during this time?

I see some of these same reporters who took pleasure in reporting how bizarre he was and how he treated his children. Remember his children in masks or covered in white sheets? The media was all over him calling him out . Remember when he held Blanket out the window? People wanted him arrested for child endangerment and the kids taken away.

Ahhh the hypocrisy of it all.

Ironically, I'm probably one of the only ones who seeks justice for Michael. All those who did him harm emotionally and physically should be ashamed of themselves.

Posters poo pooed my mention of pharmacists. Well guess what? If he had aliases and was able to get the meds, hell yes they should be held responsible regardless of whether he had those meds in his body when he died. They enabled him with his addiction. His other doctors should also face the same fate as CM...oh and his bodyguards, surely someone saw the meds, and the drip and his condition............I could go on and on and on.

But alas, they got the fall guy. Justice was served. We now have ONE killer.

I don't call that justice.

RIP Michael!

 

[Talina]

Sadly, many have failed him. Those who should have been there for him were not. It's one thing to come out after his death and support him but where were all his supporters when he was going through some of the toughest years of his life?

Remember the molestation trial? Remember when he showed up in pajamas? He was ridiculed, laughed at. Didn't some radio stations ban his music during this time?

I see some of these same reporters who took pleasure in reporting how bizarre he was and how he treated his children. Remember his children in masks or covered in white sheets? The media was all over him calling him out . Remember when he held Blanket out the window? People wanted him arrested for child endangerment and the kids taken away.

Ahhh the hypocrisy of it all.

Ironically, I'm probably one of the only ones who seeks justice for Michael. All those who did him harm emotionally and physically should be ashamed of themselves.

Posters poo pooed my mention of pharmacists. Well guess what? If he had aliases and was able to get the meds, hell yes they should be held responsible regardless of whether he had those meds in his body when he died. They enabled him with his addiction. His other doctors should also face the same fate as CM............I could go on and on and on.

But alas, they got the fall guy. Justice was served. We now have ONE killer.

I don't call that justice.

RIP Michael!

BBM

I'm curious about your stance on the pharmacists. If a person is using an alias to get prescription medications, how does a pharmacist know that is an alias? Of course, the physician knows since he/she is the one that saw the patient and prescribed the drug but how does the pharmacist know it is an alias?

I can see how doctors could be in trouble for this sort of thing but I don't get how a pharmacist is also liable.

IMO

 

[~n/t~]

BBM

I'm curious about your stance on the pharmacists. If a person is using an alias to get prescription medications, how does a pharmacist know that is an alias? Of course, the physician knows since he/she is the one that saw the patient and prescribed the drug but how does the pharmacist know it is an alias?

I can see how doctors could be in trouble for this sort of thing but I don't get how a pharmacist is also liable.

IMO

That's a good question. Obviously, the system doesn't work. I don't have the answers. Maybe it will take a few more deaths for someone to say "Hey, wait a sec, there is something terribly wrong here" and then do something about it. Someone was filling his prescriptions. Someone was lying for him.

 

[angelmom]

BBM

I'm curious about your stance on the pharmacists. If a person is using an alias to get prescription medications, how does a pharmacist know that is an alias? Of course, the physician knows since he/she is the one that saw the patient and prescribed the drug but how does the pharmacist know it is an alias?

I can see how doctors could be in trouble for this sort of thing but I don't get how a pharmacist is also liable.

IMO

I will admit that I haven't followed this case closely, but I have wondered all along...if the propofol (sp?) is NEVER EVER administered outside of a hospital setting, how did CM get it? How did Michael get it before CM? Was it stolen?

B/c I think whoever was supposed to be in charge of THAT should be in trouble as well.

 

[~n/t~]

I will admit that I haven't followed this case closely, but I have wondered all along...if the propofol (sp?) is NEVER EVER administered outside of a hospital setting, how did CM get it? How did Michael get it before CM? Was it stolen?

B/c I think whoever was supposed to be in charge of THAT should be in trouble as well.

Here you go...........

UPDATE 12:00 p.m.: Lopez said that Murray placed an initial order with him for 10 vials of propofol, at 100 ml each, and 25 vials of 20 ml each, which were ultimately delivered to the Santa Monica apartment he shared with Alvarez in early April. Just a few weeks later, in that same month, he reordered a total of 65 vials of propofol—four trays, or 40 vials of 100 ml and 25 vials of 20 ml—were were delivered to the same address. Testimony has recessed for a lunch break and will resume at 1:30 p.m. PT.

UPDATE 11:45 a.m.: Lopez said that he provided prescription creams to Murray for a patient suffering from vitiligo, but did not know the patient's name. He also said that Murray asked him to price and source the availability of propofol for Murray's medical use. Murray then placed a phone order for propofol on

http://ca.eonline.com/news/michael_jackson_manslaughter_trial_live/267448


ETA: Lopez is a pharmacist All those meds delivered to a HOME address! Not a clinic. Not a hospital.

 

[Talina]

Here you go...........




http://ca.eonline.com/news/michael_jackson_manslaughter_trial_live/267448


ETA: Lopez is a pharmacist All those meds delivered to a HOME address! Not a clinic. Not a hospital.

Correct but Lopez testified that Dr. Murray told him they were being delivered to his clinic in Los Angeles. He never told him they were going to his girlfriend's apartment. Lopez even offered one time to hand deliver them to Los Angeles instead of shipping them from Las Vegas since he was heading to LA on business and Dr. Murray declined the offer and told him to just ship them as he had in the past (IMO Dr. Murray did not want him to know it was not a clinic).

IMO

 

[Talina]

I will admit that I haven't followed this case closely, but I have wondered all along...if the propofol (sp?) is NEVER EVER administered outside of a hospital setting, how did CM get it? How did Michael get it before CM? Was it stolen?

B/c I think whoever was supposed to be in charge of THAT should be in trouble as well.

BBM

As far as we know to this point, MJ was never administered this before outside a clinical setting. Nurse Lee testified that MJ told her that he'd had it before and knew it was safe as long as he was properly monitored while he was getting it. Nurse Lee said she told MJ that no one that cared about him would ever give him this in his home.

I honestly do not think that MJ thought Dr. Murray would not be there monitoring him while he was administering the propofol. Dr. Murray clearly knew what all monitoring equipment he should have since he had listed this equipment as being needed in London. He just didn't have it in MJs bedroom in California. That makes me wonder if MJ knew what all equipment should be there for the proper monitoring or if Dr. Murray convinced him that he'd never leave his side so it wasn't all needed. We'll never know.

IMO

 

[~n/t~]

Correct but Lopez testified that Dr. Murray told him they were being delivered to his clinic in Los Angeles. He never told him they were going to his girlfriend's apartment. Lopez even offered one time to hand deliver them to Los Angeles instead of shipping them from Las Vegas since he was heading to LA on business and Dr. Murray declined the offer and told him to just ship them as he had in the past (IMO Dr. Murray did not want him to know it was not a clinic).

IMO

Are you saying Lopez didn't know the address he was shipping to wasn't a hospital or a clinic ?

 

[Talina]

That's a good question. Obviously, the system doesn't work. I don't have the answers. Maybe it will take a few more deaths for someone to say "Hey, wait a sec, there is something terribly wrong here" and then do something about it. Someone was filling his prescriptions. Someone was lying for him.

It seems to me like this would be illegal for the doctors to prescribe to aliases. However, the DEA did an investigation into all of this and found that nothing done rose to the level of them filing charges against any of the doctors. So perhaps there are allowances in certain circumstances for a doctor to prescribe and keep medical records on an alias as long as they cross reference to who the actual person is (remember there were references in some of the medical records presented at trial for those aliases that linked them back to MJ)

IMO

 

[Talina]

Are you saying Lopez didn't know the address he was shipping to wasn't a hospital or a clinic ?

Yes. That is what I'm saying and that is what the testimony was from Lopez. He did NOT know the shipping address was Nicole Alvarez's apartment. Dr. Murray told him it was his clinic in Los Angeles.

ETA: IIRC Lopez even said that had he known this was not going to a clinic and was being sent to be used on one patient that he would have never shipped the drugs that Dr. Murray ordered.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OH Geezzzz.. now I'm really gone!

Michael is right now singing my favorite MJ song now.

"Man in The Mirror"

http://www.hdmusicvideosonline.com/rock/michael-jackson-man-in-the-mirror-music-video-1988-grammys


http://youtu.be/_4COxumzxKw

Thank you for music to wake up to, Peace! I simply never grow tired of seeing such an amazingly talented man.

As I watched him perform it made me think of the terrible impact his knees and body had to withstand for all those years. He later had to be in pain from doing such grueling songs over and over again during his long career.

IMO

 

[angelmom]

Yes. That is what I'm saying and that is what the testimony was from Lopez. He did NOT know the shipping address was Nicole Alvarez's apartment. Dr. Murray told him it was his clinic in Los Angeles.

ETA: IIRC Lopez even said that had he known this was not going to a clinic and was being sent to be used on one patient that he would have never shipped the drugs that Dr. Murray ordered.

I'm sorry, but this is a LAME excuse. Google maps, anyone?

I just think there should be much tighter controls on stuff like this. That's what computers are for. Maybe 20 years ago, but not now. You know, the media has made such a big deal about how this drug is NEVER EVER used outside of a hospital setting but, really, how do we know? How many drug addicts OD and no one ever really pays that much attention to why/how? How many other people are pulling this exact same stunt but have so far managed to escape death and/or detection? If no one is really keeping track, then how can they say that?

While I agree that Dr. Murray made a horrible choice, there are so many other people to blame in this situation. And even my 11yoDD knows better.

I was trying to explain it to her and she said, "Well it's at least a little bit Michael Jackson's fault for taking drugs."

I could only respond, "You are a very wise little girl."

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sadly, many have failed him. Those who should have been there for him were not. It's one thing to come out after his death and support him but where were all his supporters when he was going through some of the toughest years of his life?

Remember the molestation trial? Remember when he showed up in pajamas? He was ridiculed, laughed at. Didn't some radio stations ban his music during this time?

I see some of these same reporters who took pleasure in reporting how bizarre he was and how he treated his children. Remember his children in masks or covered in white sheets? The media was all over him calling him out . Remember when he held Blanket out the window? People wanted him arrested for child endangerment and the kids taken away.

Ahhh the hypocrisy of it all.

Ironically, I'm probably one of the only ones who seeks justice for Michael. All those who did him harm emotionally and physically should be ashamed of themselves.

Posters poo pooed my mention of pharmacists. Well guess what? If he had aliases and was able to get the meds, hell yes they should be held responsible regardless of whether he had those meds in his body when he died. They enabled him with his addiction. His other doctors should also face the same fate as CM...oh and his bodyguards, surely someone saw the meds, and the drip and his condition............I could go on and on and on.

But alas, they got the fall guy. Justice was served. We now have ONE killer.

I don't call that justice.

RIP Michael!

I really think that the media shaped MJ into being something they wanted him to be and he was not and some in society believed it hook, line and sinker. Everything he did was made to look bizarre and sinister by the media simply because it brought them in billions and MJ has always been their favorite cash cow and even photos of his children. That is what is very sad to me. That the media is so powerful and knows it and knows it can sway public opinion even though based on lies for profit.:furious:

Yes, I remember him having to show up in his PJs. Tom Mes. has talked about that several times and they had no choice but to bring him from the hospital to the courtroom in his PJs because the Judge said he had to be there then. For years MJ had suffered from back pain from falls in a couple of his performances.

What is sad is MJ had to cover the faces of his children so their photos wouldn't land on a tabloid or gossip site and splattered around the world.:banghead: He tried to protect them the best way he could.

But even the media can come to the realization that they were bottom feeders and really preyed on a man who was just trying to be the best father he could be to his children.

Michael was thoroughly investigated by FCS and was found to be a competent parent to raise his children. If one thing has been brought out in all of this tragedy is he raised his children extremely well and their love for him is boundless and deep. So while the media made him out to be something else the ones who really knew him knew he was a sweet, loving, kind and gentle soul. That has been so obvious by all the ones that REALLY knew him personally who have spoken out in the last couple of years.

We heard it all for years regurgitated over and over. 1. MJ wanted to be white.:innocent: 2. MJ didn't have a skin disorder.:innocent: 3. MJ wasnt a good father:innocent: and I could go on and on about the media myths put out about MJ. He was their paycheck and the more outlandish they made him seem the more they profited.

However; things have changed, and we know, and the media knows we know, that a lot of what they spoon fed society for years was not true about MJ. Plus the FBI released their long years of investigation on Michael finding absolutely no criminal wrongdoing whatsoever. Hard for the media to refute the FBIs finding when the FBI had no motive to protect MJ nor would they have... had he been guilty of one little thing.

So imo a lot of the media has regrets about how they vilified this gentle sensitive man and really a mind who is able to change when the facts are presented is a wonderful thing. I am finally glad to see the media looking at the real MJ instead of the one they 'invented' for profits.

I think some forget that MJ would have pain and medical issues just like anyone else his age. A doctor must treat legitimate issues. 19 aliases, although those were never verified as all belonging to MJ, wasnt all that much if they started back when he was burned in the 80s. As I have mentioned before even the Judge over the ANS case said it is a common practice to protect the confidentiality of the celebrity.

A guy said on tv yesterday the paparazzi goes through doctor's dumpsters looking for evidence who they are treating and for what. Now that IS bizarre. None of us has to even worry about such exposure.

Walgren said there is absolutely no evidence that another doctor besides Murray.. gave propofol in MJs bedroom. It doesn't make sense that the security guards or staff would see it since they were not even allowed on the 2nd floor of the home without permission.

While he had other doctors in the past 20 years those doctors did not administer propofol in his bedroom and then abandon him leaving him to die.

Murray is NOT the fall guy. He IS the guy that killed MJ. Justice was indeed served yesterday!

 

[Talina]

I really think that the media shaped MJ into being something they wanted him to be and he was not and some in society believed it hook, line and sinker.

Murray is NOT the fall guy. He IS the guy that killed MJ. Justice was indeed served yesterday!

Respectfully snipped for space.

Thank you for that post Oceanblueeyes. I wholeheartedly agree with all you said.

 

[TxLady2]

Sorry for your sadness Peace. We bought "This is It" the moment it went on sale. And yes it is marvelous.

But, it's also an excellent example of editing.
If you notice the specific numbers where MJ performs, there were many scenes edited in (shown by him wearing different clothing which meant these scenes were compiled from different nights of rehearsal). I can't recall one number where it isn't made up of from different rehearsals.

Of course the people who put out this DVD would want to show MJ only in his best form. And the editing that was done was so on cue it's an unbelievable art form.

After studing the DVD and watching the trial and hearing the testimony, I have come to believe that we really never knew Michael's real medical condition. "This is It" only shows the best moments of his nights on stage.
Knowing what went on in that bedroom, if we know all of it, is indeed very sad. Doctor or not, it's clear Murray did not know what he was doing in giving this drug. If he did, he would have refused to be part of this all and known the dangers of doing this outside a hospital or medical setting.

What a great loss to all of us.

just my O

Agree, it's pretty clear that Murray did not know what he was doing as far as giving him the propofol. He could have said No, he could have told him he wasn't trained or experienced in administering a general anesthetic. I liked the analogy from one MJ fan yesterday. She said it's like if someone tells you to rob a bank for them, and convinces you they need the money so bad, that you let them talk you into it and you rob the bank... it's still your fault, because you could have refused.

It's a shame that Dr. Murray was more interested in the money and fame than he was in his patient. It's a shame that he walked away from Michael's bedside just when he needed him the most. It's a shame that he chose to administer a drug that he was not equipped to give anyone, and without the proper emergency equipment needed. EVEN IF he had given it to him for the preceding months and nothing happened, that is no guarantee that it wouldn't happen at some point. He should have been right there beside the bed, ready to do whatever was necessary to save his life, instead of in another room talking on the phone.

 

[TxLady2]

Respectfully snipped for space.

Thank you for that post Oceanblueeyes. I wholeheartedly agree with all you said.

And SO DO I!!! Very well said!!

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Chernoff was right! Flannagan up in 10:00 hour of InSession.

 

[peace9274]

Originally Posted by Talina
Respectfully snipped for space.

Thank you for that post Oceanblueeyes. I wholeheartedly agree with all you said.

And SO DO I!!! Very well said!!

OCEANBLUEEYES, I'm third to say I agree with you and that it's very well said!!

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10446/applause.gif

 

[peace9274]

Well, how's that for Karma!

You weren't able to sleep, Credence, because (IMO), it meant
that you were to get up and write that post just for my benefit!

I had closed up after "This Is It" was over and went to bed.
But I just kept thinking about the editing of the film, as outofstatelawyer
had described it... and that maybe there was a lot of footage not
included in the film, because of how MJ looked or behaved.

I couldn't get it off my mind and kept imagining MJ being in poor health, physically & mentally.
So I had to get up to shake off all that was racing in my mind. ("Move a muscle, change a thought!").

I came back here to see if anyone else was here and saw your post! It was a great read!!
I'm so relieved I did and I'm so grateful that you told (me) all about the attys going through
boxes of film and that they couldn't find anything that showed MJ was suffering in any way.

So now after reading it, I feel much better about MJ during the rehearsals and I know I'll be able to fall asleep now!!

Anyway, thank you for that, Credence!! You'll probably be able to get some sleep now, too... knowing that you sure helped me!!!

ETA: It's now 5 hrs later and just want to say thanx again to Credence...
I slept very well for those 5 hrs!