TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #3

[AmyMarie222]

First of all, for the sake of the children, I hope and pray that David is not the one responsible for Karen's murder.

If he is responsible, though, I hope and pray that the people of this country will come together to donate enough money to a fund so that their 4 children will not have to struggle financially. I've already told my husband to prepare, because if David is guilty (and thus unable to care for his children), I want to step step in and help. I feel it's our duty.

This case has just completely captivated me, and I don't want those children to be forgotten.

 

[LindaG]

I suppose the main questions are:

Why was Karen not at home in her bed?

What caused her tire to come off the rim?

What is the probability that a random stranger would commit murder and leave the victim's vehicle, clothing, cell phone and body in four different locations all along the same 3 mile stretch of road three weeks after the victim petitioned for divorce?

What explanation is given by the husband regarding pyjamas ... where are they? Was she wearing them when he saw her from the top of the stairs?

What other main points would there be ... did she have a second cell phone that close friends were providing?

(BBM)
I maintain that Karen WAS at home in her bed. It is her husband who said she left the home in the middle of the night, after she had already gone to sleep with her daughter. Since he was the last person to see her alive and is a possible POI, I don't believe this statement can be taken as fact

A better question might be 'Did Karen willingly leave her home after she dropped off her daughter?'

I'm just sayin' :cow:

 

[OldSteve]

Finding her body by an old cemetery, Halloween .... seems like a plan was in place to make it appear like something satanical had taken place...
But two problems arouse - her returning home with her daughter greatly shortened the time line, and also makes her being taken by a sicko less likely since the amount of time he had with her wasn't much. Would seem more likely had she simply gone out to a Halloween party and not returned.

Second problem is her car - the only reason I can see of finding it not with her is that whomever killed her needed it for transportation after the crime.

If it was the husband who did this - ironically, the more the planing, the more capital the crime.

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

I see we don't have an arrest today either.
Frustrating.
I really appreciate the aerial photos.
I realize that the easiest culprit would be the husband.
I can't point my finger at him yet. Just a feeling I have.
Not to belabor the point, but I see the same type of above ground pool at the Swift's as there was at the Bobo home.
A little off topic, but yesterday while I was at home alone with my dog, I heard banging on my front door.
So hard it frightened me.
Snuck around thru the dining area to see who it could be.
Was a guy who had recently been going thru the neighborhood wanting to do handyman work.
He gave me a funny feeling when I first saw him. Wanted to look at my shingles on the back of my house.
Needless to say I wasn't taking him in the backyard.
Long story short, after I didn't go to the door, I heard him twisting the doorknob.
That's right. He was trying the lock!
And then he was pacing back and forth talking to himself in my courtyard. You can't see in it from the street.
He was saying "but her car is here, but her car is here".
All this just to say it can happen in a second. One heartbeat.
If that door hadn't been locked, what would have happened?
That's the reason I have the gun loaded today.
Karen didn't know what was going to happen to her.
The mind of a killer (or predator) is something we can never really understand.
JMO

 

[LindaG]

Someone mentioned there is a farm near to where her car was found. Farm workers (if this is a working farm) start early in the day, they are up before the crack of dawn. Farmers often hire drifters with little if any background checks. I'd be interested to know if that is the case with this farm.
I also understand there is a RSO nearby? What would the extent of his criminal record be? Was he a violent SO? Was he still on probation?
I believe we have to be able to look outside of the statistics in any case and see if anything fits, which is what I think LE was saying about not wanting tunnel vision to narrow the scope of their investigation.

I can't see a drifter taking the time to stage the scene, arrange the clothing and hide the body. I think a drifter would 'hit and run'. In that case, LE would probably not be able to say the had a POI, as the drifter could have been long gone and not left a forwarding address. imo

I checked on the RSOs. Some of the charges are over 10-30 years old and the perps are quite elderly. Some of the perps' offenses were with family members or minors (people known to them), a few statutory rape. There were none that I saw that were of physical violence against the victim, at least not indicated in the Dyer County records I looked at.

I'm just sayin' :cow:

 

[OldSteve]

I see we don't have an arrest today either.
Frustrating.
I really appreciate the aerial photos.
I realize that the easiest culprit would be the husband.
I can't point my finger at him yet. Just a feeling I have.
Not to belabor the point, but I see the same type of above ground pool at the Swift's as there was at the Bobo home.
A little off topic, but yesterday while I was at home alone with my dog, I heard banging on my front door.
So hard it frightened me.
Snuck around thru the dining area to see who it could be.
Was a guy who had recently been going thru the neighborhood wanting to do handyman work.
He gave me a funny feeling when I first saw him. Wanted to look at my shingles on the back of my house.
Needless to say I wasn't taking him in the backyard.
Long story short, after I didn't go to the door, I heard him twisting the doorknob.
That's right. He was trying the lock!
And then he was pacing back and forth talking to himself in my courtyard. You can't see in it from the street.
He was saying "but her car is here, but her car is here".
All this just to say it can happen in a second. One heartbeat.
If that door hadn't been locked, what would have happened?
That's the reason I have the gun loaded today.
Karen didn't know what was going to happen to her.
The mind of a killer (or predator) is something we can never really understand.
JMO

Hope you reported this to the police!!! Why was he saying "but her car is here..." how did he know it was a "her" ...
Good to have some kind of alarm or way of knowing before you enter your home if someone has gone in first. You don't want them hiding inside in possession of your own gun.
Sorry to go OT.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I live in Washington, DC. We have a parkway here that runs along the Potomac River called George Washington Parkway. In the spring and summer months, GW Pkwy is completely overrun by kudzu vines. It's beautiful, but kind of menacing, because it takes over everything - the trees, rocks, posts, etc. Reminds me of Little Shop of Horrors.

My husband and I were driving down the Parkway the other day, and I was alarmed at how much I could see now that the kudzu is dying off. You could see expansive views of the river and Georgetown, you could see deep into the park. It turns into bare bones during the winter months. Year after year, I'm always amazed at the "new" views of the city when the kudzu dies off.

I was looking for before and after pictures of Kudzu vines, and I found a blog post with examples. (am I allowed to post it)? If I'm allowed to post it, it's linked here. If I'm not allowed to post it, I'll delete it.

BBM: Excellent descriptions! It does look like old gnarled bones when the leaves are off, doesn't it?

Yeah, someone didn't think this hiding place through. To me, placing Karen there implies utter panic and definite lack of planning on someone's part OR the work of someone "not from around they-ah" who didn't understand the mighty Kudzu.

(When my husband died, he was working on turning Kudzu into fuel. If we COULD harness the stuff, we'd never be dependent on anyone for oil again!!)

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

The recent "drifter" that tried the locks on my door yesterday has been seen thru out the neighborhood.
Passing out handmade fliers with biblical quotes on them. Copies of an original he must have drawn.
I have a feeling if he got inside my house and subdued me, he would have been here for quite a while.
Neighbors don't notice things as much anymore.
Now I'm sure they notice things more in Karen's area. Maybe.
We all get caught up in our own lives.
I live alone and don't have kids.
I can attest that is dangerous in this world as a middle age woman on her own.
And getting more dangerous every day.
JMO and always lock your doors!

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

The recent "drifter" that tried the locks on my door yesterday has been seen thru out the neighborhood.
Passing out handmade fliers with biblical quotes on them. Copies of an original he must have drawn.
I have a feeling if he got inside my house and subdued me, he would have been here for quite a while.
Neighbors don't notice things as much anymore.
Now I'm sure they notice things more in Karen's area. Maybe.
We all get caught up in our own lives.
I live alone and don't have kids.
I can attest that is dangerous in this world as a middle age woman on her own.
And getting more dangerous every day.
JMO and always lock your doors!

Not doubting your story, but I am a bit puzzled. First you said he wanted to look at the shingles on the back of your house but you wasn't going to go in the backyard with him. Then you said you didn't answer the door. Could you clarify how you knew he wanted to look at the shingles?

 

[LindaG]

Interesting. The husband had a knee injury in May where he injured a tendon on the patella ... the knee cap. At the end of October, he was suddenly again on cruthces? It takes 6 months to recover from knee surgery, but without the need for surgery it should heal faster and certainly 6 months after the injury he should have been off the crutches. What secondary injury did he have around the time that Karen was murdered?

Is it possible that someone stumbled a little into the kudzu to heave/throw a body into the vines and she would sink to the ground? She would become another host for the vines, I suppose, and the shadow creatures, like rats. I couldn't imagine living in a place like that ... with rat and noxious weed infestations.

In an earlier article on the subject of husband's knee, a Dr. was asked what would cause this kind of (secondary) injury so long after the surgery. The Dr. said that one of the causes could be 'walking on uneven terrain'. moo

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

Hope you reported this to the police!!! Why was he saying "but her car is here..." how did he know it was a "her" ...
Good to have some kind of alarm or way of knowing before you enter your home if someone has gone in first. You don't want them hiding inside in possession of your own gun.
Sorry to go OT.

Thanks OldSteve.
I have an alarm and a dog, but she just barks. Rescue doggy
He knew I was a "her" because he had approached me when I was getting my mail about a week ago.
Gave me a strange feeling then.
Told the police and the home owners' association website.
I think he is a dangerous predator with a mental disorder.
I have a gun and a stun baton, but you can't be alert every second.
I know if you point a gun at someone you should use it.
I have a feeling Karen was also a caring and friendly woman.
Alert to her surroundings yet worried about helping others as much as she could.
Helping out nowadays is so important in this economy, but it can get you killed.
JMO:twocents:

 

[OldSteve]

The recent "drifter" that tried the locks on my door yesterday has been seen thru out the neighborhood.
Passing out handmade fliers with biblical quotes on them. Copies of an original he must have drawn.
I have a feeling if he got inside my house and subdued me, he would have been here for quite a while.
Neighbors don't notice things as much anymore.
Now I'm sure they notice things more in Karen's area. Maybe.
We all get caught up in our own lives.
I live alone and don't have kids.
I can attest that is dangerous in this world as a middle age woman on her own.
And getting more dangerous every day.
JMO and always lock your doors!

Here what you said makes me think of the wacko who took Elizabeth Smart.
My biggest concern is someone breaking into my home when I am not there and then waiting for me to return, or I accidentally return.
A simple alarm (intrusion) system is most useful. Too bad Holly's house and grounds were not equipped with this.
As for Karen, that's a different matter - there a system to know what's going on in your spouse's mind is needed!

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

In an earlier article on the subject of husband's knee, a Dr. was asked what would cause this kind of (secondary) injury so long after the surgery. The Dr. said that one of the causes could be 'walking on uneven terrain'. moo

But that isn't the only thing that could cause it to act up. Anytime an injury occurs that is disabilitating, usually therapy and a warning to not over do it follows. If he didn't follow doctors orders after the injury and didn't allow enough time for proper healing, before resuming normal activities, that could also cause a flare up of an old injury.
Also kudzu is not the only uneven ground one could walk on. Just saying, stepping on a gopher hole, tripping over an extension cord, a mis-step off a ladder or any other everyday occurance could be the cause. If I had a dollar for every time I twisted an ankle due to uneven ground that was not overgrown with kudzu I'd be a rich man.

 

[gitana1]

The recent "drifter" that tried the locks on my door yesterday has been seen thru out the neighborhood.
Passing out handmade fliers with biblical quotes on them. Copies of an original he must have drawn.
I have a feeling if he got inside my house and subdued me, he would have been here for quite a while.
Neighbors don't notice things as much anymore.
Now I'm sure they notice things more in Karen's area. Maybe.
We all get caught up in our own lives.
I live alone and don't have kids.
I can attest that is dangerous in this world as a middle age woman on her own.
And getting more dangerous every day.
JMO and always lock your doors!

Something similar happened to me once. A guy came knocking in the middle of the day. I was a student. I asked through the door who it was. He said he needed to leave something. I said I could not open the door. He started banging hard. Then, he went to a side window and started trying to shake it off the track.

I called 911 and they sped here so quick it was incredible. Just missed catching the guy. Turns out, he was likely a process server because my brother was served several days later.

But, if this happens again, call 911 at the moment you see this guy and tell them he was trying to get in, turning your door knobs. They should take it seriously and come zooming in. If he is on foot, all the better.

That guy seems very scary to me. And you're right. It only takes a moment.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

A little off topic, but I think it's worth posting at this time here. I have a GE RF (Radio Frequency) alarm system which included motion sensors in my shop, door / window alarms, and fire/heat/smoke alarms in both the home and shop. You can program into the main panel up to 3 phone numbers for it to call if there is a breach of any of the alarms and it will alert you by phone if the alarm is not de-activated withing 15 seconds by use of an owner's code. I strongly suggest, especially to those living alone, to strongly consider installing one. It's a very easy DIY set up and could save your life or property. If you need or want details feel free to PM me.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Something similar happened to me once. A guy came knocking in the middle of the day. I was a student. I asked through the door who it was. He said he needed to leave something. I said I could not open the door. He started banging hard. Then, he went to a side window and started trying to shake it off the track.

I called 911 and they sped here so quick it was incredible. Just missed catching the guy. Turns out, he was likely a process server because my brother was served several days later.

But, if this happens again, call 911 at the moment you see this guy and tell them he was trying to get in, turning your door knobs. They should take it seriously and come zooming in. If his is on foot, all the better.

That guy seems very scary to me. And you're right. It only takes a moment.

I had a similar incident a couple years ago. I was standing in my neighbour's parking spot and a guy who prowled the neighbourhood regularly and acted weird most of the time walked over to my shop and started to go inside when he looked over his shoulder and saw us standing there (neighbour and I). To justify his actions he said "I'm just looking for my buddy who lives here. Well little did he know I was the person who lived there and we were far from buddies. LOL

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

I can't imagine what it would feel like to have killed someone and know that the entire efforts of a law enforcement community are focused on me. As well as the residents.
Being featured on shows on local and national tv.
I couldn't stand up to that kind of pressure for even one hour. Of that I am 100% positive!
(I know, there's always a caseyanthony)
If I'd killed my spouse or neighbor everyone would know it.
Then we have people who go right on with the charade. For years. Forever.
I can only think that they come to a point in their lives where they have committed ultimate evil and they no longer consider themselves to even have a soul.
Killing someone in a rage is a little different.
Not "better" in any way. Just a lil bit easier for us to grasp.
People with profiling experience say that once a rageful perp kills the rage is gone.
In serial killers, it's only gone for a while.
I wonder if in spousal or other types of killings if the rage is so quick to vanish.
If it gets replaced with fear and the caring and love that comes from those around you that truly think you are innocent and grieving.
If that kind of killer begins to believe the lies. Begins to believe that they didn't actually kill their spouse/loved one.
I still don't want to think that Karen's husband killed her.
First of all, there's no proof right now that we know of.
Just suspicion and circumstances that don't seem to add up.
To stalk and kill someone is a dark twisted thing.
Or to always be hunting for the right opportunity to fulfill the need to kill.
I have to say that every now and then I see some young woman out doing something in a remote area totally alone. Like jogging. Friendly and not a care in the world.
And I have to think "if there was a random killer in this area, you'd be the perfect victim". Eeekkkk!
Could Karen have been that perfect victim caught up in a storm of circumstance? Wrong place wrong time?
It's like if you don't watch your step every second you are in danger.
If you spend your time fearful you miss the joy in life.
Given the choice between the two, sometimes there is a perfect storm that leads to murder.
It just has to happen that way. No matter how we try we have to let ourselves focus on living life and not constantly on the evil in this world.
Guess that's why we even do things on halloween in our modern lives. Why adults dress up and go to parties to scare or delight others.
That seems to be what Karen had been doing that evening. Dressed up like a cute cat.
Was there someone there that saw her as easy prey? If so, how could anyone have known she was going to leave her house in the wee hours of the morning? It doesn't make sense.
If there was an evil one amongst the party-goers how was she lured from her house? From the bed she was sharing with her daughter?
JMO

 

[hollyblue]

Interesting. The husband had a knee injury in May where he injured a tendon on the patella ... the knee cap. At the end of October, he was suddenly again on cruthces? It takes 6 months to recover from knee surgery, but without the need for surgery it should heal faster and certainly 6 months after the injury he should have been off the crutches. What secondary injury did he have around the time that Karen was murdered?

Is it possible that someone stumbled a little into the kudzu to heave/throw a body into the vines and she would sink to the ground? She would become another host for the vines, I suppose, and the shadow creatures, like rats. I couldn't imagine living in a place like that ... with rat and noxious weed infestations.

I wouldn't even attempt to go into that stuff in the summer...and in the fall it would take a full suit of Carhartts with a hood, work boots and gloves!! I didn't grow up around kudzu, but around woods and remember one time in my teens moving vines on my travels and met a snake chest high curled up in them. Amazing how your not scared of anything when a child vs a teen/adult. LOL, but imagine there are moccasins, copperheads and prolly a few rattlers in that area; not to mention ticks. I lived in the TN/NC area for 2 years and it was unreal how it just takes over in summer. Someone is missing a good market, imo as it would be perfect for animal feed or to try to convert into fuel. Never could figure that one out..... since it grows vertically as well and wouldn't take as much farmland as corn to grow. It's full of nutrition. God knows the south and the back areas of much of the region could use it for income/revenue...(instead of pot growing)

Kudzu was brought up in the Palmgren case (Signal Mtn, TN) thinking her jeep went off the road and was swallowed up for the season. Unfortunately it was a cliff with a 350' drop and deciduous trees hiding her.

I'm seeing pajamas mentioned quite a bit and curious if that is something from the MSM or are we just speculating on them atm? I don't need a link, if in MSM....just curious. TIA I wonder about his use of crutches again also...if he becaume tangled in the kudzu or maybe she tried to fight him off...she was little, but in good condition. Much more flexible than he was.

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder if it would even occur to a murderer to think about vegetation dying away later on and exposing the body...maybe if one spends a lot of time gardening...but I doubt I would be thinking of that at such a "high-stress" time...more likely to be thinking about a hiding place now and getting away...I know for sure my husband would not have any inkling that certain plants would die away, etc...JMO

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

Yep we all seem to think we are indestructible as kids/teens!
If we had the energy and lack of fear that we had then, we would be seriously dangerous sleuthers!
Instead we have others we have designated to "uphold" the law for us.
Sometimes they do a good job, and other times not.
Most people just go about their daily lives not giving much thought to the situation until/when it affects them.
JMO