General theory thread and motives rehashed #6

[Skully]

I think you might be thinking a lot of what I'm thinking...

So why do you think Ron has gone along with Misty's lame story? The only thing I can come up with is this isn't the story Misty told Ron. For example, Misty tells Ron, "Remember when you stole those (guns, drugs, whatever) from Mr. X? They didn't belong to Mr. X, they belonged to Mr. Y and Mr. Z, and Mr. Y and Z showed up here a few hours ago to (beat, kill) you, but you weren't here, so they (beat, raped) me, but Haleigh woke up and came in here, and they (took, killed) her. I begged them not to hurt her, I begged them to (take, kill) me instead, but I couldn't stop them..." That's the general idea. Because Ron did do this, he believes Misty, and even though he's furious at her for Haleigh getting taken on her watch, on the other hand, what was she supposed to do? So they call LE, but if Ron tells LE this, he's going to jail for whatever, so he tells Misty they'll change the story, etc. etc.

Some of this seems plausible to me, some not so much, but this is the best I can come up with so far. It does, at least to me, explain a lot of the whys that have made this case so messed up.

ETA: BBM I wanted to make it as clear as possible I don't believe what is bolded above is what actually happened to Haleigh. The bolded above is one example of what I'm thinking Misty might have told Ron happened, not what really happened. Hope this is clear to everyone.

I understand, you think it was some story that Ron would buy and not kill her for letting someone take Haleigh. I have thought, that Haleigh was acting out that night, and Misty called Ron to tell him to talk to her. Ron being Ron was at work and maybe told her to handle it. So she did, and Haleigh died. She could have told him she OD on drugs at the house, maybe they were Ron's drugs or they drugged the kids to get them to sleep, that he felt it would cause him to lose JR and had to come up with something to cover up the OD. Or she could have told him the story of the Mexican's drug gang, but what ever it was, he felt partly to blame and he didn't want to lose JR. This is as good as a theory as any.

 

[Levi]

Levi, there is a big difference between LE thinking Ron is lying to them and withholding information (and btw, IMO, LE DID think that, and Ron WAS doing that) and LE thinking Ron is the perp who killed Haleigh.

I don't have the link, so feel free to treat this as a figment of my imagination, but I remember after the drug bust an officer involved was quoted as saying Misty was the target and getting Ron was a bonus.

Levi, I don't care anymore about Ron as a person or a father than you do. My criteria for father of the year involves a LOT more than a man who does not kill and/or dispose of his child's body.

I don't dispute what you have posted above about Ron, in fact, I agree with it. Where we differ is our interpretations. You seem to take this as Ron was involved in Haleigh's death, and/or involved in covering it up. I take it as Ron did not cooperate with police (and yes, I do agree that he SHOULD HAVE) and that Ron lied to police (and yes, I think that is a horrible thing for a father to do when his daughter is missing and probably dead). I don't see anything, though, that convinces me Ron was in a position to have been involved. That leads me to my next step, which is to figure out what other reasons a man like Ron (and not me, but a man like Ron) would act like this.

How about a simple answer? People that act the way Ron acted... act that way because they are guilty? Just as simple as that.

You don't cooperate because your guilty. You lie to the police because you are guilty. You withold information because you are guilty.

It doesn't make sense that if you are innocent you lie. It doesn't make sense that if you are innocent you refuse to cooperate. It doesn't make sense that if you are innocent and you love your daughter you withold information. It doesn't make sense because innocent people don't act that way.

I'm not saying Ron killed Haleigh. I am saying he was INVOLVED. And I think we can take it is a FACT that Ron is involved.

The simple fact that he was given a proffer, and a negotiated plea prove he had involvement.

Innocent people do not give proffers. Individuals that participated in a crime give proffers. They accept a plea deal, and give a proffer about their knowledge and participation in a crime to avoid further prosecution. That is a fact.

 

[Levi]

How can anyone logically justify saying Misty is not a suspect after everything that has come out of Misty's mouth?

How about law enforcement flat out stated last year both Ron and Misty are not telling everything they know... They are most likely BOTH suspects.

I don't think we should make this out as Ron vs Misty. Ron guilty, and Misty innocent. How about both of them are guilty, and both of them had involvement?

They both got married after Haleigh vanished which was weird. They BOTH got busted on drug charges instead of searching for Haleigh. They both acted like freaks and seem not to care about Haleigh after she went missing.

They are partners in crime... BOTH are guilty IMO.

 

[Levi]

My opinion? I don't think Ron is completely without emotion. I think Ron loved Haleigh. I think he loves Jr, too, but not nearly as much. I don't think he cares much at all for the third child.

IMO, this could be one of many motives, or part of the many motives combined. I do think it's worthy of consideration, though.

If he loved them why did he beat them?

 

[Levi]

I don't think RC had anything to do with her going missing, other than bringing Misty into her life. I still wonder about the fight RC had with her cousin Joe over that gun. Then the cousin hightails it out of town. The sister-in-law saying her van had a scratch and that she thought Joe had taken it. Since he had been staying with them.

RC's words over the phone and his reactions on video speak for themselves.

Wish one of Misty and Tommy's family would roll on them.
The jealousy in Misty's voice amazes me when she is telling about having to go and get Hailey another outfit at grandmas... cause she didn't want to wear what was at the trailer. JMO

If Ronald had nothing to do with Haleigh going missing why did Ron accept a negotiated plea deal and give LE NEW information he previously withheld?

 

[Levi]

I sat yesterday and read several pages of posts, the Ron/Misty vs Misty Tommy theories and I have to say, both sides make very good arguments. So much so, I still can't decide. I say that not to stir the pot, but because they all act suspicious and lied and cover up stuff to the point I feel like they all had a hand in her death. I know they are all in jail, so they aren't going anywhere, anytime soon, but it would be nice to know WTH happened to this beautiful child.

Misty and Ron first hours made most of us here jump on the band wagon of they did it, but the work thing and the air conditioner man threw me. You can't be in two place at one time and have a witness Haleigh was alive as Ron was at work, so I couldn't see where he killed her before work or sometime during work. I know many say he left, but he is in jail, why is no one talking now? Misty was the last one with her, according to her, and Tommy puts himself at the mobil home. And speaking of MH's the whole thing was a staged event IMO. But who staged it? So I have come to the conclusion that Ron's actions were off because he had lots of things to hid, like the drugs in the MH that night and he had cops on the way, and Misty she was there and she knows what happened, her story was full of details of things up to the minute before it went down, then she is fuzzy, hiding underblankets, changing her story from Mexicans to Tommy and Joe to SODDI. So for me, I am voting Misty had a hand in it, just can't decide if she threw her to the wolves meaning Tommy or she OD her by mistake. She would be very scared that Ron would kill her, or at least beat her and toss her out. Misty had a hard life, most of it was from people she trusted and she did have an axe to grid with Tommy. So I can see her saying he did it, even if he didn't to pay back a little of that hard life. As for TM and co. I don't think in the beginning they dreamed Misty could hurt a fly, and Ron needed to marry her so not to go to jail for under age sex with a minor. So that to me explains the wedding and glowing reports on Misty, it was self serving, but as time went on, I think they decided she had a hand in it and turned on her. Ron was the best thing in her life, and she still loves him. So that has to say how bad a life must be if that is the best thing, Ronald Cummings. So I guess I am saying, I pick Misty, just don't know who or what happened or why. My best guess was it was an OD and Misty got scared and got someone to help her get rid of the body.

I don't really think people are considering the obvious. Ron got a plea deal, gave LE new information, because he was involved, but not the killer. He may have been at work that night. It doesn't make him innocent.

People are thinking in terms of Ron being the one who killed Haleigh, or Ron being 100% innocent. When it seems obvious he was PARTY to a crime. He most likely knew his lifestyle choices, maybe his drugs, etc caused Haleigh's homicide and impeded the investigation and helped cover up what happened. That makes him party to a crime.

I also think he is a controlling person. He put a gun in his mouth and said he would kill himself and take others with him.

I'm glad LE got him in jail, then took JR away, because if they took Jr away while he was free, he most likely would have killed himself in a murder-suicide just like Josh Powell did.

I think Ron covered things up because he knew he was in danger of having JR taken away from him. And CPS was walking on egg shells because they knew Ron would kill himself and take Jr with him.

 

[Lanie]

How about a simple answer? People that act the way Ron acted... act that way because they are guilty? Just as simple as that.

You don't cooperate because your guilty. You lie to the police because you are guilty. You withold information because you are guilty.

It doesn't make sense that if you are innocent you lie. It doesn't make sense that if you are innocent you refuse to cooperate. It doesn't make sense that if you are innocent and you love your daughter you withold information. It doesn't make sense because innocent people don't act that way.

I'm not saying Ron killed Haleigh. I am saying he was INVOLVED. And I think we can take it is a FACT that Ron is involved.

The simple fact that he was given a proffer, and a negotiated plea prove he had involvement.

Innocent people do not give proffers. Individuals that participated in a crime give proffers. They accept a plea deal, and give a proffer about their knowledge and participation in a crime to avoid further prosecution. That is a fact.

I can see we come from opposite sides of the planet.

Cindy Anthony, George Anthony and Lee Anthony all lied to LE, withheld information, and refused to co-operate. I don't think they had ANYTHING to do with Caylee's death or disposal.

IMO, people do these things for other reasons than they are guilty. Some don't want to be involved, some are guilty of other things they don't want coming out, some are protecting others they might think are guilty...

This carries over to plea deals. People may have information that can help in solving a crime without having committed the crime, and for reasons stated above, it sometimes takes an offer of a plea deal to get them to talk.

 

[Levi]

Have the cops said Ron is not telling all he knows since the plea deal went down? Why would they let him out of prison for giving up her body? To me, that makes no sense at all.

Chablis, try to hear what I'm saying here. I'm not LE, but if I were and I were involved in this case, because Ron is what he is, the first thing I would do is to pick his alibi apart with a fine tooth comb, because coming in at the very beginning, I would look at him as the number one suspect. IMO, there were way too many different agencies of LE involved for at least ten, if not more, officers to do exactly the same thing. If there were just a few local LE investigating this, I would be all over the LE corruption bandwagon, because really, I do get where you and a lot of other people are coming from, how, HOW can he NOT be involved???

This is where we differ. From my point of view, I see LE as looking very hard at Ron, and like it or not, having to put him aside. I now see LE looking very hard at Misty and Tommy. Sometimes, I'll be honest, I wonder how you and others don't see this, but the thing is, I'm okay with it. You don't HAVE to see it. I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm just asking for you to respect that my opinions have nothing to do with me WANTING Ron to not be guilty, because it's just not true.

Obviously LE knows Ron, Misty, and Tommy are all involved. I also think that Ron wasn't 100% truthful in his plea deal, since last year LE told Central Florida News that both Ron and Misty haven't told everything they know.

I think that is why Ron keeps trying to get his sentence corrected and modified because he knows he wasn't telling the entire truth.

If we see charges come down, I predict Ron will be charged right along with Misty and Tommy.

 

[Levi]

I can see we come from opposite sides of the planet.

Cindy Anthony, George Anthony and Lee Anthony all lied to LE, withheld information, and refused to co-operate. I don't think they had ANYTHING to do with Caylee's death or disposal.

IMO, people do these things for other reasons than they are guilty. Some don't want to be involved, some are guilty of other things they don't want coming out, some are protecting others they might think are guilty...

This carries over to plea deals. People may have information that can help in solving a crime without having committed the crime, and for reasons stated above, it sometimes takes an offer of a plea deal to get them to talk.

If you've read my posts. You would know I think Ron is GUILTY. But I think he is guilty of COVERING UP, not murder. I actually think Misty is the one who murdered Haleigh, since she turned down immunity.

If Ron withheld information, that makes him guilty. That makes him PARTY TO A CRIME, and an accessory after the fact.

So even with you defending Ron, and admitting Ron lied and withheld information, under the law that makes him a PARTY to what happened. So I don't know why you keep defending Ron. Because even by your own standards you are convinced he was party to a crime.

If you lie and withhold information YOU ARE INVOLVED. That is AGAINST THE LAW. Period.

Why is it that some people want to give Ron a pass for this? And people think the law doesn't apply to him? It is really funny.

 

[Lanie]

I don't really think people are considering the obvious. Ron got a plea deal, gave LE new information, because he was involved, but not the killer. He may have been at work that night. It doesn't make him innocent.

People are thinking in terms of Ron being the one who killed Haleigh, or Ron being 100% innocent. When it seems obvious he was PARTY to a crime. He most likely knew his lifestyle choices, maybe his drugs, etc caused Haleigh's homicide and impeded the investigation and helped cover up what happened. That makes him party to a crime.

I also think he is a controlling person. He put a gun in his mouth and said he would kill himself and take others with him.

I'm glad LE got him in jail, then took JR away, because if they took Jr away while he was free, he most likely would have killed himself in a murder-suicide just like Josh Powell did.

I think Ron covered things up because he knew he was in danger of having JR taken away from him. And CPS was walking on egg shells because they knew Ron would kill himself and take Jr with him.

BBM

IMO, people think if you don't think Ron is the killer you must think he is Mr. Wonderful. IMO, if people practiced a little more reading comprehension, there might not be so much misunderstandings.

My opinion is Ron didn't have anything to do with Haleigh's death and to this day still doesn't know what happened to her. Anyone who reads further will see I think that Ron lied to LE starting with the 911 call, and continued to lie and obstruct to the point this case will probably never be solved. I don't know that I consider that 'involved', but I sure don't consider it innocent. Haleigh was his daughter, and I'm sorry he was able to use what info he had to get time knocked off that IMO he should be serving, and also get use immunity for what IMO he should be prosecuted and serve some more time for. Info that IMO he should have been getting in every LE's face and relaying to them from the minute he found out his daughter was gone.

I also think it's a crying shame from what I saw that Hank Croslin tried harder in the jail visits to get the truth about what happened to Haleigh than it seems her own flesh and blood ever did.

All MOO.

 

[Lanie]

If you've read my posts. You would know I think Ron is GUILTY. But I think he is guilty of COVERING UP, not murder. I actually think Misty is the one who murdered Haleigh, since she turned down immunity.

If Ron withheld information, that makes him guilty. That makes him PARTY TO A CRIME, and an accessory after the fact.

So even with you defending Ron, and admitting Ron lied and withheld information, under the law that makes him a PARTY to what happened. So I don't know why you keep defending Ron. Because even by your own standards you are convinced he was party to a crime.

If you lie and withhold information YOU ARE INVOLVED. That is AGAINST THE LAW. Period.

Why is it that some people want to give Ron a pass for this? And people think the law doesn't apply to him? It is really funny.

And you have more than proven the point I made when I started posting in here again about how if a person doesn't think Ron 'did it' they feel the need to post massive disclaimers about how they don't have feelings for Ron, don't support Ron, aren't defending Ron, etc. etc. etc.

I've put a partial theory out. It is based on trying to tie everything together and make sense of everything the way I see it. It's far from complete because I think I'm pretty good at seeing things from POV's other than my own, (and I also shouldn't have to constantly defend this position by stating just because I can see how this person could do this thing doesn't mean I agree with it) it's still difficult for me to find some justifications (again, not my justifications, their justifications) for some of the things that have been done. If this theory doesn't stand up to at least most of what has taken place, I will scrub it out and try to come up with something different. This is how I do it.

 

[Chablis]

BBM

IMO, people think if you don't think Ron is the killer you must think he is Mr. Wonderful. IMO, if people practiced a little more reading comprehension, there might not be so much misunderstandings.

My opinion is Ron didn't have anything to do with Haleigh's death and to this day still doesn't know what happened to her. Anyone who reads further will see I think that Ron lied to LE starting with the 911 call, and continued to lie and obstruct to the point this case will probably never be solved.

All MOO.

People only do what you describe when they are trying to COVER THE TRUTH. What logical explanation other than hes guilty as heck describes why he would hinder the truth about his daughter?

 

[Levi]

BBM

IMO, people think if you don't think Ron is the killer you must think he is Mr. Wonderful. IMO, if people practiced a little more reading comprehension, there might not be so much misunderstandings.

My opinion is Ron didn't have anything to do with Haleigh's death and to this day still doesn't know what happened to her. Anyone who reads further will see I think that Ron lied to LE starting with the 911 call, and continued to lie and obstruct to the point this case will probably never be solved. I don't know that I consider that 'involved', but I sure don't consider it innocent. Haleigh was his daughter, and I'm sorry he was able to use what info he had to get time knocked off that IMO he should be serving, and also get use immunity for what IMO he should be prosecuted and serve some more time for. Info that IMO he should have been getting in every LE's face and relaying to them from the minute he found out his daughter was gone.

I also think it's a crying shame from what I saw that Hank Croslin tried harder in the jail visits to get the truth about what happened to Haleigh than it seems her own flesh and blood ever did.

All MOO.

I find it hard to believe that Ronald doesn't know what happened when he married Misty, went to NYC with Misty on a honey moon paid by the Today Show, continued to hang out with Misty even after divorcing her, and then was busted dealing drugs with her.

It seems to me that both of them know damn what happened and are sharing an evil secret.

 

[Lanie]

Obviously LE knows Ron, Misty, and Tommy are all involved. I also think that Ron wasn't 100% truthful in his plea deal, since last year LE told Central Florida News that both Ron and Misty haven't told everything they know.

I think that is why Ron keeps trying to get his sentence corrected and modified because he knows he wasn't telling the entire truth.

If we see charges come down, I predict Ron will be charged right along with Misty and Tommy.

BBM

Thank you! Seriously, thank you for that piece of information. This is the kind of stuff I wish we could post more about.

 

[Lanie]

People only do what you describe when they are trying to COVER THE TRUTH. What logical explanation other than hes guilty as heck describes why he would hinder the truth about his daughter?

I posted earlier in this thread what I consider a logical alternate explanation for Ron to COVER THE TRUTH (you know, when you put it in all caps like that, it almost makes me think you think that I don't think what Ron did was COVER THE TRUTH, but logically, I don't see how you could think that, so I must be mistaken.)

Just throwing this out there, I don't know who you are, but I feel like you are probably a good person, and good people don't lie to the police when they come home from work and find one of their children is missing. Since most of us seem to agree Ron is not a good person, is it really so outside the realm of possibility that he would come home from work, find his daughter missing, and then proceed to lie to LE, even if he didn't have anything to do with her missing? Even if he was lying just to protect himself from being charged with some crime that would maybe net him three years at most? I wouldn't do it. I would willingly go to prison for the rest of my life for committing no crime if it meant a chance of my daughter being found. But I'm not Ron.

 

[Chablis]

Since most of us seem to agree Ron is not a good person, is it really so outside the realm of possibility that he would come home from work, find his daughter missing, and then proceed to lie to LE, even if he didn't have anything to do with her missing? Even if he was lying just to protect himself from being charged with some crime that would maybe net him three years at most?

Um, no, I do not think if he truly came home and his daughter was missing and he knew nothing about it, I do think he would have called the cops, and I bet it would have really scared him straight, and I bet he would still be free looking for her to this day, if he had nothing to do with it. There is no reason for him to do any of the things he did, unless he is either mentally retarded or he just didn't care that his daughter could be out getting raped by a pedophile, its a toss up to me. He could have gotten into trouble for bedding a teen, but the cops didn't jump on that did they? jmo

 

[Skully]

I asked this question before, but will toss it out again. What if, Misty did kill Haleigh or even Tommy, but Misty was high or out and couldn't prevent it, she would still feel Ron would blame her. What if she comes home and finds Haleigh dead on a mattress, What if she suspected Tommy killed Haleigh but because she was so drugged or not in the MH that night, she wasn't sure, but had a good idea who killed Haliegh. Could she have called Ron and made up a story that Haleigh OD on Ron's drugs and it was his fault and what should she do? This was something I thought Ron would cover up, but act suspecious and know his daughter was dead, but had to go along with the whole kidnapping thing. So maybe later he knows Misty fed him a line of bull and now he thinks Misty and Tommy or Tommy killed Haleigh and got over on him? This would explain Ron's lies, actions, guilt and other actions. It would also as time goes on explain the breakdown of the family's support of Misty over time. Just a thought.

 

[Concerned Papa]

~Respectfully Snipped~

Have the cops said Ron is not telling all he knows since the plea deal went down?

BBM

Yes, apparently they have. The following is dated February 10, 2011:

Investigators said they believe the people connected to the case, including Croslin and Haleigh's father, have not told everything they know about what happened.

http://www.baynews9.com/article/new...s-think-family-hasnt-told-whole-story?cid=rss

Ronald Cummings' plea deal was agreed to in open court on August 20, 2010.

 

[B4igo2it]

BBM

Yes, apparently they have. The following is dated February 10, 2011:



Ronald Cummings' plea deal was agreed to in open court on August 20, 2010.

1) Thank you, as always, Papa for your attention to detail and ability to provide links and other valuable information!

2) A puzzling statement :what: made by LE in the press release, "The individuals with direct knowledge of Haleigh's whereabouts the night she went missing have still failed to provide the necessary information to bring this case to a logical conclusion."

a. LE is not asking about Ron, Misty, GGMS, TN or Tommy's whereabouts .... they are asking for "Haleigh's" whereabouts!
b. Obviously, Haleigh was NOT at the MH on Green Lane.
(hmmm, is TomC the only one that told the truth here ... "no one home @ 10 p.m.")

http://www.baynews9.com/article/new...s-think-family-hasnt-told-whole-story?cid=rss

 

[Lanie]

Um, no, I do not think if he truly came home and his daughter was missing and he knew nothing about it, I do think he would have called the cops, and I bet it would have really scared him straight, and I bet he would still be free looking for her to this day, if he had nothing to do with it. There is no reason for him to do any of the things he did, unless he is either mentally retarded or he just didn't care that his daughter could be out getting raped by a pedophile, its a toss up to me. He could have gotten into trouble for bedding a teen, but the cops didn't jump on that did they? jmo

BBM

I don't think most people work like that so I'm just going to leave this as agreeing to disagree.