17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

[LambChop]

I have no clue Lola. Hopefully we will get a little bit more information from her.

When they know the cause of death why would a drug test be necessary? TM broke no laws and it was not considered a "drug" case. jmo

 

[chefmom]

Huffpo has a different take. I believe the inference was there. Also if I offended anyone before I am sorry. I have very strong feelings about defense tactics. JMO

(((hugs))) For you and your child!

:blowkiss:

 

[TonyGatto]

A witness has an attorney? ??

I'm sorry to be dense, but what does that mean "and held phone up to screen". Does that mean she photographed what she saw with her phone?

It strains the imagination to think of how GZ got injuries to the back of his head when he was on top during a fight. Also it strains the imagination to think how Trayvon would be losing a hand to hand fight with GZ.

Yes the witness has an attorney which is not out of the ordinary. She said that at some point she said to police why don't you just listen and held the phone up to the screen -- as a microphone -- so police could listen to the raw audio as it was happening. She also says the verbal argument that preceded the shot was between an older man and a younger man and that the older man was louder and more forceful.

 

[TonyGatto]

Was it MC? Mary Crucher (sp??). Or was it a new witness... the girl from the call where we actually heard the shot? I believe her boyfriend's name was Jeremy (from the call)?

My take is that this is not the woman who is with the man on the 911 call which has been released. Which brings up the point -- why has LE released certain 911 tapes and not others?

 

[katydid23]

Witness was just interviewed on CNN -- says she was on the phone with 911 when shot went off and held phone up to screen. Says she was certain GZ was on top and entire altercation was at least 4 feet away from concrete. Her attorney says SA investigators did not do a very complete interview -- only 15 minutes. This witness had been interviewed before but this was more complete.

I heard it a bit different. I heard her say a few times that it was very dark and she could not be sure, but she thought the bigger man was on top of ' the little boy.'

Her attorney was talking about the FOLLOW UP interview. That one was only 15 minutes. But her initial interview that evening was recorded and she told her entire story.

Mark Geragos was on after the interview and said he thought she actually helped the defense. She talked about hearing very long and loud argument which went on for awhile.

 

[TonyGatto]

So they questioned her more extensively??????????

Witness's attorney said to Ashley Banfield: The interview you just did with her was much more thorough than the police did with her. The witness also said that investigator said to her that night -- if it's any consolation -- the person who was screaming is still alive.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I have another question?? The officer's who brought Zimmerman to the station... would they have had the gun or would that have been left with the detectives on the scene?

I would love to see the chain of custody that gun went through that night? Fingerprints should be very easy to obtain since LE got there so quick. Zimmerman and Trayvon's fingerprints should be on the gun.

MOO

I never saw him with the gun at the station.

 

[chefmom]

I for one am relieved. They don't need someone who purposely misleads their audience. And I don't believe - for a minute - that anyone who has the wits to be able to work in a major media outlet and edit tape doesn't have the wits to know exactly the misleading effect that editing job will have on the viewers.

In this cutthroat business to be considered the most believable media outlet in the market, having an editor who changes tapes to further an agenda - instead of further the truth - can't be tolerated.

He's either really too dumb to know what he's done will have an effect on the perception of truth with their audience, or he knows it and did it on purpose. Both are dangerous to have in the newsroom, I don't know which is more detrimental to the success of NBC.

Totally agree with this post! It is one thing when, for sake of time, editting is done to hit high points of an interview, call, etc. It is quite another, in a case such as this, to splice together bits and pieces that will only serve to inflame the situation more. IMO, this is exactly what this person did. They cherry picked what they wanted to be heard, put it together, and came up with a string that made for a bad picture. I want justice for Trayvon, but I do not want it to be manufactured. JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

My take is that this is not the woman who is with the man on the 911 call which has been released. Which brings up the point -- why has LE released certain 911 tapes and not others?

There was mumblings about other 911 tapes that haven't been released? I just didn't believe it? Has Trayvon's family gotten to listen to any unreleased 911 calls, if they exist? I know I would be extremely mad if I had finally gotten the calls released only to know that there were more out there that weren't released! This all started because they wanted to hear the 911 calls and to think they withheld some?? What reason would that be?

MOO

 

[TonyGatto]

I heard it a bit different. I heard her say a few times that it was very dark and she could not be sure, but she thought the bigger man was on top of ' the little boy.'

Her attorney was talking about the FOLLOW UP interview. That one was only 15 minutes. But her initial interview that evening was recorded and she told her entire story.

Mark Geragos was on after the interview and said he thought she actually helped the defense. She talked about hearing very long and loud argument which went on for awhile.

You're right. The fifteen minute interview was the more recent one -- DONE BY INVESTIGATORS FROM THE SPECIALLY APPOINTED SA.

 

[beach]

No. It's been made clear that it's a myth that a dispatcher has the right to tell someone what to do. GZ was under no obligation whatsoever to follow the dispatchers suggestion.

This argument always cracks me up. You are correct the dispatcher does not have the authority to ORDER him to stay in the car. However, they are trained by LE on how to handle volatile situations exactly like this. I don't care what brush you try to paint this with, at the very least Zimmerman acted irresponsibly by refusing to follow the dispatcher's trained response.

If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, Trayvon would not be dead NOR would Zimmerman be facing the backlash he is now.

That is a simple FACT.

 

[kimpage]

Saw previews fo Piers Morgan...Steven Segal is gonna be on and said if dispatch told GZ we dont need you to follow and if it was in his jurisdiction he would arrest GZ.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Witness's attorney said to Ashley Banfield: The interview you just did with her was much more thorough than the police did with her. The witness also said that investigator said to her that night -- if it's any consolation -- the person who was screaming is still alive.

IMO there was a lot of those kinds of statements being made that night. I imagine the next one heard "if it is any consolation, the person with the red sweater is still alive". IMO

 

[Desdemona]

Huffpo has a different take. I believe the inference was there. Also if I offended anyone before I am sorry. I have very strong feelings about defense tactics. JMO

If the Huffington Post has deliberately stated or implied falsely that Uhrig claimed GZ to be suffering from SBS, either before or after the head injury he sustained that night, that is IMO highly irresponsible and wrong, since Uhrig clearly said no such thing.

Here is the Huffington Post article for anyone who cares to read it line for line:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/george-zimmerman-shaken-baby_n_1408421.html

BTW, I linked the actual CBS video of Uhrig's comments upthread, because I understood you to say you heard/saw it on TV. Sorry if I got that wrong.

Again, here is the video, with Uhrig's remarks beginning at 3:43:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57410388/zimmerman-lawyer-client-convicted-by-media/

 

[LolaMoon08]

I never saw him with the gun at the station.

I know. I didn't either. So the gun had to have been left at the scene with detectives, correct? I figure it was immediately taken from Zimmerman's possession (hopefully with gloves on and placed in an evidence bag right away)? Would Zimmerman placing the gun back in the holster smear any fingerprints on the gun?

 

[chefmom]

You know if GZ is arrested for at least manslaughter they are going to try and get everything he said the night of the shooting and the walk-through the next day thrown out? They're going to blame SPD, EMS, etc... for not getting him medical attention? They are going to say he could not legally, with his severe head injury, sign a waiver so it is invalid. Then we'll get into the whole Miranda Warning (which hopefully they gave him) and how even if he was read his Miranda Warning, his severe head injury prevented him from fully understanding what he was agreeing to.

Also, why in the world wouldn't GZ want to release the medical report showing what his actual injuries were? If I was GZ, I would have released that weeks ago to show just how bad my injuries were. Especially a broken nose and a gash that would have required stitches had it not started to heal? I wonder if he went to a family doctor or if he went to the ER?

I'm still puzzled why they are withholding the autopsy report? I don't understand that? Did Trayvon have injuries that they don't want released to the public yet?

Another question I have would be, when Police took the gun from Zimmerman, did they have gloves on? We all seen how the one officer totally disregarded basic safety measures when frisking Zimmerman, but what about when they took the gun? If Trayvon was going to the gun, his fingerprints should be on the gun? What part of the gun were Trayvon's fingerprints? If it was on the actual nozzle (is that the name for where the bullet comes out) I think it would mean Trayvon was trying to get the gun away from pointing at him. If the fingerprints were on the handle (where you hold it and the trigger is?) then it would go with Trayvon going for the gun while in Zimmerman's waistband?

So many questions still! It's driving me insane.

MOO

BBM

ITA! If I were in GZ's shoes, I would have released any info or pictures that backed up my claim of injuries. I would rather lay all my cards on the table, so to speak, than have half the country think I am a murderer/racist. It would seem like the easiest way to put the questions to rest. JMO

 

[LambChop]

No. It's been made clear that it's a myth that a dispatcher has the right to tell someone what to do. GZ was under no obligation whatsoever to follow the dispatchers suggestion.

FACT: Once you call LE with a complaint of a suspect it becomes official police business. We have all read the report and the time GZ called it in. We all hear the tape of GZ talking to LE. Regardless of what GZ does, went home, went to the store, waited for LE, his obligation ended when he called LE. It's not a what's legal, what's not. It's legally police business because they were sending out a car to investigate. They NEVER gave GZ permission to investigate on his own...it is their job. Did we hear dispatch tell GZ, hey, yeah man, just do that, just follow this guy because he might get away? GZ knew exactly what he was doing, that is why he never told LE he had a gun and lead them to believe he was headed back to his truck by saying, "okay."

I can tell you one thing. It is quite obvious that many people do not understand what is expected of them AFTER they make that call. "We don't need you to do that" is a polite way of say....there's a car on the way, it's our job to investigate this situation and if we need you we will call you, or you can wait in your car until the patrol car gets there. It was never an open invitation, nor did GZ ever get any blessings from LE to follow TM. Other than issuing him a direct order to wait I doubt if anything would have stopped GZ from following TM because he didn't want another one "to get away." Because GZ used extremely poor judgment someone is dead. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I know. I didn't either. So the gun had to have been left at the scene with detectives, correct? I figure it was immediately taken from Zimmerman's possession (hopefully with gloves on and placed in an evidence bag right away)? Would Zimmerman placing the gun back in the holster smear any fingerprints on the gun?

It's in the police report. Officer Smith disarmed him by taking the gun from GZ's waistband and then cuff him. jmo

 

[joypath]

When they know the cause of death why would a drug test be necessary? TM broke no laws and it was not considered a "drug" case. jmo

Performing drug screens on decedents involved in violent actions has become routine in many jurisdictions, usually only doing blood & urine sampling rather than "other" organ tissue testing as one would perform in "unknown" CODs.

Also, IIRC, the members of the SPD REQUESTED IT be done on the gunshot fatality. (sorry no link, just remember this from previous discussions on this forum)

JMO,JME

 

[chefmom]

This argument always cracks me up. You are correct the dispatcher does not have the authority to ORDER him to stay in the car. However, they are trained by LE on how to handle volatile situations exactly like this. I don't care what brush you try to paint this with, at the very least Zimmerman acted irresponsibly by refusing to follow the dispatcher's trained response.

If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, Trayvon would not be dead NOR would Zimmerman be facing the backlash he is now.

That is a simple FACT.

Well stated! And, might I add that if one calls LE for assistance, one should follow the instructions given to them by LE in order to facilitate an orderly resolution to the problem they need help with. :blushing: