Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7

[Rational]

How about Big Bwana and Little Bwana for starters? Big B and Little B? Big Ted and Little Ted? Starsky and Hutch? The choice is yours...

Or Dumb and Dumber! And let's not forget Jemimah.

 

[mountainhigh]

First time poster!

wow that’s extreme? Hard to believe

“There is even a suggestion in legal circles that up to 5 people may be arrested over the murder, including accessories after the fact.” http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

However nothing surprises me anymore…

IMO
1. GBC – kills ABC
2. BWANA – called to help with the body
3. Mamma bear – someone had to wash their cloths/ shoes? Mud, blood? (Destroying evidence)
4. Lady friend- possibly provided a fake alibi for GBC
5. ???

you are probably off the mark on point number 4. I think the 'going to bed at 10pm leaving ABC watching TV' is probably fairly accurate. I feel if point 4 was raised then he would be in custody by now, as it is a complete contradictory to the initial story of events given to police. pretty sure if it was point 4 then this would have been reported by now...and perhaps even raised/revised to media during the search for her.

 

[coolcat]

Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

It would not surprise me in the least if she was involved! She comes across as a 'Stephanie Forrester' type character - (From the soapie Bold and the Beautiful).
Protect cubs at ALL costs!

That is exactly who she reminded me of when I first seen her...lol!
(I used to watch it with my Nan when she was alive..God Rest her Beautiful soul)....

In Pics on C21 Website..She does appear to look a little softer with her hair a bit longer but now she just looks fierce and aggresive almost!

 

[mountainhigh]

It might not have been an aspiration of BC s, he might have wanted something different, I really don t know what all the fuss about IGGS is about, ( ABC didn t appear to have a great deal to do with it since school herself ) they are years away from it, high school that is, I would be more interested in what they are doing to help them now, I, certainly wouldn t be picking out High Schools now, last thing I would be doing. This is not meant to be cold just my opinion

its been raised before, it was obviously something that her parents (the Dickies) felt strongly about and believed it would have been her dying wish or at least one of them no doubt. Even if it hadn't been a dying wish then her parents feel strongly about it, and one could assume its been raised within the family at some stage. If you have ever experiened loss then you will know its important for close family to 'do things'. it helps them through the grieving process. This is clearly deeply personal to them and its their business. certainly not ours. I also understand the trust is to be used for general purposes and ongoing welfare costs, also including counselling for the children as we speak. So I guess that answers your Qn as to what they are doing 'now' for them.
You are not being particularly cold but let people do what they feel they have to, especially under these circumstances. its thier family and their loss not ours. Dealing with loss is horrible under any circumstance, never mind a devastating and untimely death/murder such as this, and all played out in the public (something else none of us will typically experience or endure)

 

[SKMA]

First time poster!

wow that’s extreme? Hard to believe

“There is even a suggestion in legal circles that up to 5 people may be arrested over the murder, including accessories after the fact.” http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

However nothing surprises me anymore…

IMO
1. GBC – kills ABC
2. BWANA – called to help with the body
3. Mamma bear – someone had to wash their cloths/ shoes? Mud, blood? (Destroying evidence)
4. Lady friend- possibly provided a fake alibi for GBC
5. ???

Don't relegate a woman to the domestic drudgery!! They're just as good at killing and maiming as any man! Maybe Mamma Bear did the killing and NBC washed the clothes... just saying...

 

[Ms Fawn]

First post here but I have been following the thread with great interest.

To me the defining moment was the first (and only I think) time GBC spoke to the press.

As soon as he opened his mouth the first thing he said was:
"I'm just trying to lookk after my children at the moment"
NOT "I'm looking for my wife", pleading for her to return etc.
As soon as he said that, I knew that HE knew she wasn't coming back.
Then he went on with ME,ME,ME blah blah "but I'm ok" who cares this should be the least of your worries your wife is MISSING.
He also looked sideways when mentioning her which seemed shameful or deceptive to me.

I wish he had spoken more but he lawyered up (which is probably a wise move considering how much he gave up in this speech!)

Anyway just my humble opinion.

 

[itsthevibe]

I think wrapping her in a blanket would have screamed "GUILTY HUSBAND". He might have still been a little fond of her, but he wouldn't have want to leave her in any way that implicated him.

I suspect. IMO. He spent the whole night trying to think about what a random attacker would do, to make it look like someone else had done it. I can see strangulation. Or a head injury IMO. Strangulation does not always take 10 mins, from what I've researched. If you cut off the vein in the side of the neck that supplies oxygen, death can occur in a minute or two.

I think someone who had scientific knowledge posted recently that in strangulation it takes 3-4 minutes to ensure they are dead. That is a long time and in that time (unless you strangle from behind which is unusual) you are looking at the victim, they are usually fighting back, and you are continuing to squeeze until they are dead. If you strangle someone to death it is a very conscious thing you are doing in trying to kill them IMO, because you keep going until the job is done.

It's not as common, not even sure if its possible, that if you start to strangle someone and then stop that they die later, whereas if you were hitting them over the head with a blunt instrument and didnt kill them they could get a brain haemorrhage or have other internal bleeding where they would die later.

If it turns out to be strangulation, lets get this straight, it's not an 'accident'. Being regretful for your actions later doesnt mean you didnt mean to kill the person, it could mean you suddenly realise you might have ruined your own life and now you might wish to reconsider. If it is strangulation, let's keep it in mind that this is a person who watched their victim's face as they died in a state of terror, and the reaction in front of them wasn't enough to make them stop. The usual intention is to slience the person, and if that means killing them, that is what they do.

By the way, I know I've said this before but I'll say it again as there are different people on the forum at different times, just because someone did not pre-plan the murder does not mean they didn't 'intend' to kill the person. When you actually killed the person you could very well have intended it, and very much wanted it. It is NOT any less of a crime because the desire to kill only arose in a short space of time. For all we know the murderer might have had a wish to kill their victim on many occasions, and this was the one time they actually did it.

 

[Bayside]

Are you saying the body would still maintain the same position it was in when rigor mortis sets in?[/QUOT

Yes, so it looked like they were floating.

 

[Neuromancer]

I think that referred to an Ipswich politician's tweet? They probably received some info about how much the Kholo creek flooded. Locals (despite having to hide to avoid the ire of online woodpeckers) know how quickly the creeks here rise, and having had decent rainfall for a while, they tend to come up (and go down) quite quick. I wasn't near Kholo that weekend but when I went to Upper Brookfield mid-Saturday the creeks were suprisingly high and fast flowing after what seemed like not a huge amount of rain.

This? (from Paul Tully)
http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/allison-baden-clay-body-would-never.html

 

[plentyofnous]

I think someone who had scientific knowledge posted recently that in strangulation it takes 3-4 minutes to ensure they are dead. That is a long time and in that time (unless you strangle from behind which is unusual) you are looking at the victim, they are usually fighting back, and you are continuing to squeeze until they are dead. If you strangle someone to death it is a very conscious thing you are doing in trying to kill them IMO, because you keep going until the job is done.

It's not as common, not even sure if its possible, that if you start to strangle someone and then stop that they die later, whereas if you were hitting them over the head with a blunt instrument and didnt kill them they could get a brain haemorrhage or have other internal bleeding where they would die later.

If it turns out to be strangulation, lets get this straight, it's not an 'accident'. Being regretful for your actions later doesnt mean you didnt mean to kill the person, it could mean you suddenly realise you might have ruined your own life and now you might wish to reconsider. If it is strangulation, let's keep it in mind that this is a person who watched their victim's face as they died in a state of terror, and the reaction in front of them wasn't enough to make them stop. The usual intention is to slience the person, and if that means killing them, that is what they do.

By the way, I know I've said this before but I'll say it again as there are different people on the forum at different times, just because someone did not pre-plan the murder does not mean they didn't 'intend' to kill the person. When you actually killed the person you could very well have intended it, and very much wanted it. It is NOT any less of a crime because the desire to kill only arose in a short space of time. For all we know the murderer might have had a wish to kill their victim on many occasions, and this was the one time they actually did it.

Intention is a very objective matter and provacation under Qld Criminal Law is a defence

 

[Neuromancer]

EBC Extract
English-born Elaine has a fascinating life story {EVEN MORE FACINATING NOW}spanning three continents, three children and six grandchildren, parts of which she has already documented into short stories just for the family – and which she is keen to turn into a book when she has a rare spare moment. {PROBABLY NOT SO MUCH TIME IF VISITING SON IN THE BIG HOUSE} Her many interests include psychology, reading, music, travel and taking an active interest in her grandchildren’s development {MAYBE TOO ACTIVE OVER LAST 3 WEEKS}.

LOL :floorlaugh:

 

[justice23]

you are probably off the mark on point number 4. I think the 'going to bed at 10pm leaving ABC watching TV' is probably fairly accurate. I feel if point 4 was raised then he would be in custody by now, as it is a complete contradictory to the initial story of events given to police. pretty sure if it was point 4 then this would have been reported by now...and perhaps even raised/revised to media during the search for her.

hmm true..

however she has been interviewed multiple times... I get the feeling (and that’s all it is) that she is being treated like an accomplice/ or guilty in some form rather than just a helpful witness who might have infomation to help the case.

 

[Rational]

This? (from Paul Tully)
http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/allison-baden-clay-body-would-never.html

Neuromancer I just checked your link toTully's blog but it is a different one. Maybe trying the direct link when it was first mentioned.

 

[minni]

I think someone who had scientific knowledge posted recently that in strangulation it takes 3-4 minutes to ensure they are dead. That is a long time and in that time (unless you strangle from behind which is unusual) you are looking at the victim, they are usually fighting back, and you are continuing to squeeze until they are dead. If you strangle someone to death it is a very conscious thing you are doing in trying to kill them IMO, because you keep going until the job is done.

this face to face intense and prolonged act is what made me state earlier that I simply can't imagine GBC doing it....it is just so incredibly cold blooded and he doesnt come across like he has the capacity. I can't really say why I feel this but do feel it really strongly. It's not just his somewhat feminine demeanour (probably not the right description but I dont know how else to put it) I am also aware that this is often done by husbands against their wives so my thoughts about this don't really make sense I know

 

[Curiousasacat]

This Paul Tully thing is huge. He would stand to be in a lot of poop to say this. He is a guy you love or hate. Personally I like him. He's a straight shooter and tends to speak his mind. IMO......He does like the media though ; Oh my goodness, this is massive.

 

[justice23]

Don't relegate a woman to the domestic drudgery!! They're just as good at killing and maiming as any man! Maybe Mamma Bear did the killing and NBC washed the clothes... just saying...

point taken :blushing:

 

[plentyofnous]

I wonder whether they ll wear those bloody yellow jackets to court

 

[Greg]

Don't relegate a woman to the domestic drudgery!! They're just as good at killing and maiming as any man! Maybe Mamma Bear did the killing and NBC washed the clothes... just saying...

Yeah how sexist is that, i feel like ripping my bra off and burning it!!!!

:truce:

 

[Hawkins]

I really don t know what all the fuss about IGGS is about, ( ABC didn t appear to have a great deal to do with it since school herself ) they are years away from it, high school that is, I would be more interested in what they are doing to help them now, I, certainly wouldn t be picking out High Schools now, last thing I would be doing. This is not meant to be cold just my opinion

For some private schools in Qld, including some girl's schools, parents need to apply for places for their children virtually as soon as they are born. They will often need to pay $1,000 or more to apply and then a couple of thousand more when a place is offered, usually 3-4 years before commencing there. These fees are nonrefundable and do not get subtracted from tuition fees. With three children this would be a significant outlay for some familes. I am unaware of the fees or enrolment procedures at IGGS but their policies could well be similar.

To put three children through six years of education at a top tier secondary school in Brisbane would probably cost 300K-400K factoring in uniforms and levees. This figure is likely to rise significantly due to mooted changes to Commonwealth funding policies in coming years. For a couple to cope with that sort of financial committment they need to be either quite wealthy or very much on the same page. Many parents of modest means do indeed make such a commitment, but it can be a source of tension.

 

[plentyofnous]

For some private schools in Qld, including some girl's schools, parents need to apply for places for their children virtually as soon as they are born. They will often need to pay $1,000 or more to apply and then a couple of thousand more when a place is offered, usually 3-4 years before commencing there. These fees are nonrefundable and do not get subtracted from tuition fees. With three children this would be a significant outlay for some familes. I am unaware of the fees or enrolment procedures at IGGS but their policies could well be similar.

To put three children through six years of education at a top tier secondary school in Brisbane would probably cost 300K-400K factoring in uniforms and levees. This figure is likely to rise significantly due to mooted changes to Commonwealth funding policies in coming years. For a couple to cope with that sort of financial committment they need to be either quite wealthy or very much on the same page. Many parents of modest means do indeed make such a commitment, but it can be a source of tension.

Reeks a little of "class/perception" i think, especially when you are renting, and borrowing seeking investors for Business ventures