NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#30

[Rational]

We need independant media! I hope there is media outrage. Law and social order needs to keep pace with modern society, to protect the sanctity of human life. May be the 'right to remain silent' needs to be removed. Imagine if more suspects did what this family has chosen to do - the cost to the Police and Government?

We have become more material and if not careful, we may lose the 'value' of human life - if we just become another commodity for spare parts or for material gain from Insurance, etc. IMO there are substantial ethical dilemas now facing our Law makers both in the medical and social domains.

I agrEe that independent media would be great, but in reality this is impossible as they are always tied up with invested interests and at the end of the day reflect the journalist's interpretation, the editor's input and thewishesof owners regarding particular views.

I think the closest you are going to get to independent media is the Internet and sites like this where everyone can post and the moderation is by other posters (as long as we abide by the Terms of Service checked by the site moderators).

 

[Rational]

Makes you wonder..with all GBC's publisized debt.. where is the money for a hot shot legal team coming from.. Obviously someones helping out there I would think.

I think Nyst and maybe even Mahoney is doing it pro bono as it gives them greater exposure and in Nyst's case probably in exchange for possible movie rights.

 

[CaseClosed]

Personally, I disagree with your last statement , that Stillnox has been hyped up by the media as a very convenient drug "as a defense"
The media links you posted don't support your last paragraph. ( highlighted)

I am sure GBCs defense team are Planning on using this defense. :fence:
The only problem will be proving it was prescribed and available to GBC and was also taken by him that evening. ( I wonder who prescribed it? A local doctor maybe? )

Anyway, Good Post Dr Watson.
This should help the Defense Team if they are reading.
"Stillnox Defense " and "precedent"
You have been very thorough. :jail:

Whether the Defence team uses this drug (or any other) as playing a part in their defence case, I believe it is still not that important. Many crimes have been committed by individuals under the influence of drugs or alcohol and they are still found guilty. IMO.

 

[Fuskier]

Just found out today that when an iPhone registers itself on a wifi network it immediately connects to the apple push notification servers and sends to the server the ip address of the wireless router they are connected to.

To register on the wifi network the phone must have previously connected to the wifi network and the user saved the network password.

Now this will be the case for GBC, NBC and Allisons iPhone.

What this means is that the QPS can find out from apple when these phones registered on the wifi network at GBC house. For Allisons phone they should be able to find out when Allisons phone last registered on the wifi network by asking apple for the logs. They should also be able to find out when apple was last successful in sending a push notification to Allisons phone. Push notifications are sent out regularly to notify users of an app update.

Even better,fever if NBC had location services turned off, if he was within range of GBC wifi that night, and his phone had previously connected to that wifi this will still have resulted in apple receiving the ip of GBC wifi via NBC phone. Similarly if GBC was within range of NBC wifi that night.

It all hinges on how long apple keeps logs of the ip registrations as iPhones register onto wifi networks.

I really hope the QPS are aware of this and are following up, or have already followed up, with Apple. If anyone has a contact at QPS please run this info past them

EVEN this is valuable info; ever thought of emailing this info to the QPolice facebook page? or crime stoppers?

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I think Nyst and maybe even Mahoney is doing it pro bono as it gives them greater exposure and in Nyst's case probably in exchange for possible movie rights.

maybe, you could be right. In which case its in their best interest to get a good outcome. But in the end if there is irrefutable evidence, nothing can change that.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

EVEN ever thought of emailing this info to the QPolice facebook page? or crime stoppers?

Worth it if you think it may be of use. To be honest though I really think Police would be on the ball with all this.. If we know it or can find it out, than I am positive they are a step ahead. But if its something you think could help, then it certainly can't harm to contact.. (again its my opinion they would know this info)

MOO

 

[Dodo]

This possible new lawyer Chris Nyst. As others have mentioned, perhaps he will defend for free or low bucks in exchange for movie or book rights.

Just wondering if it then would be in his own interests (the lawyer's that is) for G to be found guilty. It would be hard to make a movie about someone who didn't commit a murder. It would only be a court case and human interest.

Wow Nads, that's a great bit of critical thinking right there. Ole Nysty might be more of a hindrance than a help in that scenario!!!

 

[CaseClosed]

This possible new lawyer Chris Nyst. As others have mentioned, perhaps he will defend for free or low bucks in exchange for movie or book rights.

Just wondering if it then would be in his own interests (the lawyer's that is) for G to be found guilty. It would be hard to make a movie about someone who didn't commit a murder. It would only be a court case and human interest.

... however, if hypothetically the defence lawyer didn't do his job in getting the accused off, then this lawyer would look like an idiot in the movie/book. I don't think any lawyer would want him/herself portrait in that light in any movie/book. IMO.

 

[Dodo]

AHA......my ex husband was JUST like this....fly into a rage....if in the car and someone annoyed him he would stalk them. Sulk for days....lock himself away in the bedroom (I had to sleep on lounge)...only come out to go to work....throw food at the wall if he didnt approve.....etc etc.....the instant rage thing....NBC....it is so creepy and scary being near someone that does that.

So glad you managed to maintain your sense Of humor (avatars:floorlaugh despite having to live like this for however long you put up with him!!

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

... however, if hypothetically the defence lawyer didn't do his job in getting the accused off, then this lawyer would look like an idiot in the movie/book. I don't think any lawyer would want him/herself portrait in that light in any movie/book. IMO.

Yes and as he has a legal practise also, he would not want turn off future clients by not getting the job done right.. My opinion, is that there would still be a story, probably a better one for the purposes of book or movie, to have a defendent who is your client, found not guilty. there is a drama could be made out of the 'unfairly accused who is eventually found not guilty' (not saying this last line is GBC of course)


just my opinion

 

[CaseClosed]

Just found out today that when an iPhone registers itself on a wifi network it immediately connects to the apple push notification servers and sends to the server the ip address of the wireless router they are connected to.

To register on the wifi network the phone must have previously connected to the wifi network and the user saved the network password.

Now this will be the case for GBC, NBC and Allisons iPhone.

What this means is that the QPS can find out from apple when these phones registered on the wifi network at GBC house. For Allisons phone they should be able to find out when Allisons phone last registered on the wifi network by asking apple for the logs. They should also be able to find out when apple was last successful in sending a push notification to Allisons phone. Push notifications are sent out regularly to notify users of an app update.

Even better,fever if NBC had location services turned off, if he was within range of GBC wifi that night, and his phone had previously connected to that wifi this will still have resulted in apple receiving the ip of GBC wifi via NBC phone. Similarly if GBC was within range of NBC wifi that night.

It all hinges on how long apple keeps logs of the ip registrations as iPhones register onto wifi networks.

I really hope the QPS are aware of this and are following up, or have already followed up, with Apple. If anyone has a contact at QPS please run this info past them.

-----------------
http://theiphonewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=FaceTime

How does Apples (FaceTime) Server know the IP Address of the 2nd (to be called) iPhone*?

Easy, every iPhone registers itself at Apple's push notification server whenever WiFi is available ("calls" Home).
Basic Process:
iPhone detects Wi-Fi Connection
iPhone gets IP address via DHCP (if not set to static in Settings)
iPhone sends a HTTP request to www.apple.com/library/test/success.html
Apple's servers send back a HTML page containing only the word "Success" in the title and body
iPhone knows it is connected to the Internet
iPhone gets iphone-wu.apple.com/7day/v2/latest/lto2.dat to enable a quick GPS fix for Location Services; LTO stands for long-term orbit. This is unrelated to FaceTime.
iPhone contacts the FaceTime server, init.ess.apple.com
iPhone downloads EVIntl-aia.verisign.com/EVIntl2006.cer
iPhone joins Apple's Jabber server at 17.149.36.99
Apple knows the iPhone's IP, which is then used for FaceTime and other push notifications.

Thanks! I'm sure QPS forensic team know this. The only thing IMO they may be dealing with is Apple's cooperation and privacy laws, etc.

 

[DrWatson]

Personally, I disagree with your last statement , that Stillnox has been hyped up by the media as a very convenient drug "as a defense"
The media links you posted don't support your last paragraph. ( highlighted)

This is the sort of thing I was referring to:

http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/news/media-reaction-over-hypnotic-drug-exaggerated?print=friendly

And somnambulism - drug-related or otherwise - has been accepted as a defence against murder - see:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/your-worst-nightmare-20101117-17xqk.html

==== START QUOTE ====
These days, homicidal somnambulism is a recognised phenomenon, so much so that some courts consider it a legitimate defence for murder. Last year, prosecutors in England dropped a murder case against then 59-year-old father-of-two Brian Thomas, who killed his wife in his sleep while the couple were on a campervan holiday in Wales. Believing their van had been broken into, Thomas attacked and strangled his wife before making a desperate call to emergency services.

But the most famous case of homicidal somnambulism involved a Toronto man, Kenneth Parks. In the early hours of May 23, 1987, Parks got up in his sleep, drove 23 kilometres to his in-laws' home, broke in, assaulted his father-in-law and stabbed his mother-in-law to death. He then drove himself to a police station, where he told officers: ''I think I have killed some people with my bare hands.'' Following testimony from sleep specialists, a jury acquitted Parks, deciding that he was indeed sleepwalking and thus not responsible for his actions.

But the Parks case remains a line in the sand for some sleep specialists.

==== END QUOTE ====

And it is that last bit that indicates the camp that I tend to fall into. I stress that I am NOT a specialist in any of the psychiatric specialties, I am not a sleep specialist, and I have had no personal experience of Stillnox side effects... So my comments should taken with the disclaimer that they are those of a medical specialist in a different field, but with the inbred cynicism that that implies.

I am in no way suggesting that it WAS somnambulism - just that it is something to keep in mind that the defence may try. Things could get complicated. And if they DO try that one, then I would take that as a sign of desperation. But as i said before - that's just cynical old moi...! :moo:

And here's a link - the "Stillnox defence" is not, it would seem, universally accepted:

http://www.australiandoctor.com.au/news/latest-news/stilnox-case-retrial-ordered

 

[Fuskier]

Personally, I disagree with your last statement , that Stillnox has been hyped up by the media as a very convenient drug "as a defense"
The media links you posted don't support your last paragraph. ( highlighted)

I am sure GBCs defense team are Planning on using this defense. :fence:
The only problem will be proving it was prescribed and available to GBC and was also taken by him that evening. ( I wonder who prescribed it? A local doctor maybe? )

Anyway, Good Post Dr Watson.
This should help the Defense Team if they are reading.
"Stillnox Defense " and "precedent"
You have been very thorough. :jail:

AUNTY I hope the QPolice and the Prosecution team are on to this one already. MOO.

 

[Opinionsgalore]

Thanks! I'm sure QPS forensic team know this. The only thing IMO they may be dealing with is Apple's cooperation and privacy laws, etc.

I agree CC. Apple may not want it known what information they have on people who use their products. Maybe someone is going to have go through and actually read the 76 odd pages of stuff that users click 'I agree' on, without reading.


This is MOO.

 

[Hawkins]

Any Qld lawyer who made some sort of deal with one of thier clients to exchange film (or any other publication) rights for representation in a criminal matter would be struck off. The idea that an experienced lawyer would do this is fantasy. Further to the Stilnox suggestion, I can think of no way that it's use could lead to a claim of diminished responsibility without a significant existing mental health problem. Even then, it's chances of making its way to a jury would be miniscule. The only other potential application I can think of would be in relation to an intoxication defence. But for a murder charge the independent medical evidence needed to establish that the accused was so intoxicated by the drug (beyond a reasonable doubt) that they could not form the intention to kill would be formidable indeed. That level of intoxication would require eye witness accounts of the accused's behaviour at the time. All MOO.

 

[CaseClosed]

This is the sort of thing I was referring to:

http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/news/media-reaction-over-hypnotic-drug-exaggerated?print=friendly

And somnambulism - drug-related or otherwise - has been accepted as a defence against murder - see:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/your-worst-nightmare-20101117-17xqk.html

==== START QUOTE ====
These days, homicidal somnambulism is a recognised phenomenon, so much so that some courts consider it a legitimate defence for murder. Last year, prosecutors in England dropped a murder case against then 59-year-old father-of-two Brian Thomas, who killed his wife in his sleep while the couple were on a campervan holiday in Wales. Believing their van had been broken into, Thomas attacked and strangled his wife before making a desperate call to emergency services.

But the most famous case of homicidal somnambulism involved a Toronto man, Kenneth Parks. In the early hours of May 23, 1987, Parks got up in his sleep, drove 23 kilometres to his in-laws' home, broke in, assaulted his father-in-law and stabbed his mother-in-law to death. He then drove himself to a police station, where he told officers: ''I think I have killed some people with my bare hands.'' Following testimony from sleep specialists, a jury acquitted Parks, deciding that he was indeed sleepwalking and thus not responsible for his actions.

But the Parks case remains a line in the sand for some sleep specialists.

==== END QUOTE ====

And it is that last bit that indicates the camp that I tend to fall into. I stress that I am NOT a specialist in any of the psychiatric specialties, I am not a sleep specialist, and I have had no personal experience of Stillnox side effects... So my comments should taken with the disclaimer that they are those of a medical specialist in a different field, but with the inbred cynicism that that implies.

I am in no way suggesting that it WAS somnambulism - just that it is something to keep in mind that the defence may try. Things could get complicated. And if they DO try that one, then I would take that as a sign of desperation. But as i said before - that's just cynical old moi...! :moo:

I understand your point. I personally think there was too much done (clean-up scene, clean-up car, dispose of body, etc.) for it to fall in that category. JMO.

 

[Hawkins]

==== START QUOTE ====
These days, homicidal somnambulism is a recognised phenomenon, so much so that some courts consider it a legitimate defence for murder. [/url]

Qld is a codified criminal jurisdction in which only the defences or excuses contained in the criminal code apply. There is no statutory defence of 'homicidal somnabulsim' here.

 

[DrWatson]

Any Qld lawyer who made some sort of deal with one of thier clients to exchange film (or any other publication) rights for representation in a criminal matter would be struck off. The idea that an experienced lawyer would do this is fantasy. Further to the Stilnox suggestion, I can think of no way that it's use could lead to a claim of diminished responsibility without a significant existing mental health problem. Even then, it's chances of making its way to a jury would be miniscule. The only other potential application I can think of would be in relation to an intoxication defence. But for a murder charge the independent medical evidence needed to establish that the accused was so intoxicated by the drug (beyond a reasonable doubt) that they could not form the intention to kill would be formidable indeed. That level of intoxication would require eye witness accounts of the accused's behaviour at the time. All MOO.

G'Day Hawkins - yes, I tend to agree with you as to the way it SHOULD be. But see my post just a couple back for some references to where homicidal somnambulism HAS been accepted as a defence in murder cases.

The second one quoted - and there is much more on that one at the link I provided - is one where there is quite some disagreement as to just how much apparently voluntary, organised, and rational behaviour can be carried out while under the effects of the drug.

That is why I mentioned my cynicism - I just find that bit all a bit far-fetched. But apparently some courts think otherwise. Including in Australia (the driving case - not a homicidal one)

With all due respect, of course.

 

[CaseClosed]

HAWKINS - I would be interested in your view as to how the July 9 mention hearing may unfold? Will he have to enter a plea that day? Thanks.

 

[CaseClosed]

Oops, I think someone has gone for chips again!