Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33

[BJsleuth]

That, to me, says it all - I really don't think this was ever intended to look like a suicide. That little bridge, as you put it, is 14-15 Km from the BC home. There was no car there. And as you also point out - why get your hair done just before topping oneself?

Personally, I have suicide, or efforts to make it look like suicide, right OUT of the equation. I just don't think that figures at all. If the perpetrator had intended it to look like suicide, there are much more likely places, including the Story Bridge - the old favourite. Or any of the bridges really, including ones close to home like the Indooroopilly Bridge or the Jindalee Bridge. Not some little short, narrow, and not very high bridge in the back of nowhere.

Nope - that whole Kholo Creek +/- the scout camp or Ugly Creek thing was an attempt to hide the body IMHO. And the rain screwed it up.

Just IMHO of course....

I agree Doc. I think the reason that suicide was inferred was simply because the initial "random stranger attack" hadn't deflected Police suspicion and someone was grasping at straws. IMO

 

[whitechapel]

:floorlaugh:

The Captiva did go past the round about, a few times that night...
had to, to get home !!!!

:floorlaugh:

Thanks and welcome Tinoca,
To me this is quite interesting, and implies the traffic camera can identify numberplates (hence they were able to identify you)

 

[Fuskier]

Morning Minni, and everyone...As I said... there are still a LOT of questions or logical flaws.

...However, it still wouldn't surprise me if there were some unexpected twists and turns yet to come in this whole saga. Keep the mind prepared - all preconceptions need to be flexible enough to be changed or scrapped as further info comes in.

Thank you DR WATSON. Interesting questions. Good reminder that further unexpected twists and turns are anticipated as more info comes in. Agree, we need to keep an open mind alongside our present opinions.
:goodpost:

 

[DrWatson]

5. This whole thing about the Kenmore roundabout, and the possible sighting of NBC at the bus stop there. Why there? And who was doing what? Why was NBC on his own? If he was meeting GBC there, why? And how did he (NBC) get there? Where was the BWANA car while he was sitting at the bus stop? And why not just meet him at his home? And the quickest way to NBC's home from GBC's home is via Rafting Ground Rd, with minimal lighting and no cameras.... That whole middle of the night rendezvous thing just doesn't all hang together for me.

For those who may have missed my post from very late last night (I had a VERY long day), the above quote is from it, and to me, this is one of the major sticking points.

WHY was NBC at the roundabout - for what purpose? If he'd arranged to meet GBC, what was wrong with meeting at the NBC home, or if he didn't want EBC involved, then "I'll see you round the corner at the bottom of our street"? Or even - I'll come round to your place.

And why sit at the bus stop? Wouldn't you sit in your car if you'd driven to a rendezvous? It's a pretty long walk from the NBC house to the Kenmore roundabout.... So where WAS the BWANA-mobile while he was sitting at the bus stop? And if he then went with GBC in the Captiva - when did he come back to wherever the BWANAmobile was parked and retrieve it?

That whole Kenmore roundabout thing has me perplexed - there are WAY too many unanswered questions. Was he actually there at all? Is that just rumour? And why are the QPS concentrating on it so much?

BIG mystery right there, for me.....

OK - back to the real world, but will be checking in from time to time. WS will show me as logged in, as the computer just sits here permanently logged in, even though I may be busy elsewhere, so please excuse any delays in replying.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Thank you DR WATSON. Interesting questions. Good reminder that further unexpected twists and turns are anticipated as more info comes in. Agree, we need to keep an open mind alongside our present opinions.
:goodpost:

Haven't we heard that Bawana has a bad temper?
Perhaps GBC is covering for someone else?


That's all I got!

 

[Fuskier]

That, to me, says it all - I really don't think this was ever intended to look like a suicide...

...Nope - that whole Kholo Creek +/- the scout camp or Ugly Creek thing was an attempt to hide the body IMHO. And the rain screwed it up.
Just IMHO of course....

I tend to agree DR WATSON. IMO it certainly looks like that.

 

[Fergie]

I dont think you were wrong Fergie, I have been mulling this over all night. I am leaning towards disregarding the insurance (to a degree) and focused more on that particular night, and think things got out of hand, which is my point exactly re the bridge. Its just a sloppy, unplanned idea to me. Why would a woman get her hair done then drive (nay walk) a couple of k out to a small bridge, its really not that high. and jump off? it seems ridiculous and WRONG to me. Also that he would choose for her, the method of suicide he did...again WRONG. I just cant see this as being his plan

( this doesnt mean he didnt think about it, or consider it, or even take steps to find out about insurance etc. If the thought was lurking, its a well known fact that alcohol can give people excuses to do what they've been wanting to do. a couple too many drinks could make it seem like a fine idea, and things could just turn from that point on)

I also posted this last night, which fits in with the scenario

I really think you make an excellent point regarding the self incrimination. If he had been planning it for a while, he would have done at least a small amount of research (isnt that what you do when you are going to kill your wife?)....it is very odd that he waited until the 11th hour to suddenly say to himself 'gee, how should I act now that I've followed through on all the other aspects of my dastardly plan?'

It definitely seems like an action taken by someone who is a bit 'frantic' and trying to tie up loose ends as oppposed to someone 'following the plan'

so Fergie, don't think you were wrong just yet...there is so much we dont know
:moo: :moo: :moo: :moo: :moo:

Thanks Minni I don't know what is right or wrong but I do wonder why OW felt the need to talk about Allison having been depressed and given that this was a strong rumor among friends and locals were they trying to create the story of probable suicide? I spoke to my neighbors the day after Allison went missing and they were thinking suicide because of the local rumors. Perhaps this was the strategy before Allison was found and based on their expectation that the body would not be found. When Allison was found and the police stated that they knew the cause of death on finding Allison did things start to go pear shaped and they knew that suspicion would fall on GBC from that point. IMO if the car was supposed to be left at Kholo Creek and Allison was missing never to be found, they hoped, then this would give credibility to a suicide theory. If Allison was left at the camp ground and was washed down because of the heavy rain that weekend perhaps their expectation was that she would either not be found or would not be found for a long time?

IMO the second car at Kholo Creek seen by witnesses was the silver Captiva that appeared blue in the light of the night.

 

[BJsleuth]

Maybe Allison wasn't dumped directly into Ugly Creek, but left on a bank somewhere and the heavy rain that weekend washed her into it but by the time she floated down to Kholo Creek, the water had started to subside and she came to a stop under the bridge? MOO

 

[Fergie]

Thanks for standing up for the 'lost or murdered poor women' Fergie.

We now call them 'erased' as men can and do this to remove debts and child custody.

However it is tough for QPS to work in this scenario and find that they have often very little closure or relief for families involved too.

Stress is then brought home to their families too. I feel for you.

I challenge myself about this often because I have become obsessed with Allison's murder as she was a close neighbor and I follow this thread every day however while I am sad about the stories my OH tells I don't dwell on their loss??

 

[FirstTimer]

I found this clipping that I cut out of the CM. It ran two weeks in a row before GBC was arrested. Unfortunately i lost the clipping just after I cut it out but now here it is attached.

I find the similarities to the GBC case quite interesting. The timing of running the story by CM was quite pertinent too.

Cheers.

 

[Rational]

Good morning everyone!
I have been a bit busy, but have just managed to read through the various posts. There is a couple missing here in Cairns and it is interesting given some of the previous posts to see how the family of this couple, as well as an ex, are pleading with the public for information. This is how the CM reported it this morning.

A CAIRNS father has choked back tears while confronting the possibility his missing son and daughter-in-law could have met with foul play.

Scott Maitland, 35, and wife Cindy Masonwells, 33, were last seen on Thursday night last week when they picked up their green panel van from a repair shop in*suburban Bungalow.

The couple, who have a house at Gordonvale, south of Cairns, recently moved to Mount Isa to work at the mines and had flown to Cairns that night for a friend's engagement party and to pick up their car which had been repaired after being stolen earlier this year.

Scott's father, Wayne Maitland, made an emotional plea yesterday.

"The concern we've got is how can two people just disappear," Mr Maitland said.

"He knew the town, he knew most of the people in the town so there's got to be someone who knows or (has) seen him."

Cairns CIB Detective Senior Sergeant Ed Kinbacher said a major incident room had been set up to find the couple, with investigators from Brisbane arriving in Cairns today.

"There appears to be two main possibilities - there is a third-party involvement that has caused this event or alternatively there has been an accident in the vehicle and they haven't been located," he said.

"Their accounts, their phones and any other normal types of interactions with the community have stopped since they arrived in Cairns."

Det Sen-Sgt Kinbacher said police were not ruling out a link between the panel van being stolen in mid-April from a workshop at suburban Portsmith and the couple's disappearance.

He said Scott Maitland had followed up inquiries which led to the vehicle's recovery.

"There are a range of suspicious circumstances and it is highly concerning," Det Sen-Sgt Kinbacher said.

A friend of the pair, Jodi Noden, said the disappearance was out of character.

"It's very unlike the two not to be in contact," she said.

"Cindy has a huge personality, very bright, bubbly and fun with a wicked sense of humour.

"They went to the mines to knock off their mortgage. Scott is a boilermaker and Cindy is a driver at the mines."

Donna Astill, Scott's ex-partner and mother of his teenage child, has set up a Facebook page to appeal for information.

The mystery comes as North Queensland police also investigate the disappearance of gold prospector Bruce Schuler.

Anyone with information on either case should phone Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

 

[minni]

Thanks and welcome Tinoca,
To me this is quite interesting, and implies the traffic camera can identify numberplates (hence they were able to identify you)

I think maybe the transport department can do a search of all the registered owners of a make and model of a car, within a specified radius. They would then get the owner details and tick em off, one by one. IMO
But they may also be able to identify the numberplates. Speed cameras can do it no problem and red light cameras too.

 

[kiwi50]

Good morning everyone!
I have been a bit busy, but have just managed to read through the various posts. There is a couple missing here in Cairns and it is interesting given some of the previous posts to see how the family of this couple, as well as an ex, are pleading with the public for information. This is how the CM reported it this morning.

A CAIRNS father has choked back tears while confronting the possibility his missing son and daughter-in-law could have met with foul play.

Scott Maitland, 35, and wife Cindy Masonwells, 33, were last seen on Thursday night last week when they picked up their green panel van from a repair shop in*suburban Bungalow.

The couple, who have a house at Gordonvale, south of Cairns, recently moved to Mount Isa to work at the mines and had flown to Cairns that night for a friend's engagement party and to pick up their car which had been repaired after being stolen earlier this year.

Scott's father, Wayne Maitland, made an emotional plea yesterday.

"The concern we've got is how can two people just disappear," Mr Maitland said.

"He knew the town, he knew most of the people in the town so there's got to be someone who knows or (has) seen him."

Cairns CIB Detective Senior Sergeant Ed Kinbacher said a major incident room had been set up to find the couple, with investigators from Brisbane arriving in Cairns today.

"There appears to be two main possibilities - there is a third-party involvement that has caused this event or alternatively there has been an accident in the vehicle and they haven't been located," he said.

"Their accounts, their phones and any other normal types of interactions with the community have stopped since they arrived in Cairns."

Det Sen-Sgt Kinbacher said police were not ruling out a link between the panel van being stolen in mid-April from a workshop at suburban Portsmith and the couple's disappearance.

He said Scott Maitland had followed up inquiries which led to the vehicle's recovery.

"There are a range of suspicious circumstances and it is highly concerning," Det Sen-Sgt Kinbacher said.

A friend of the pair, Jodi Noden, said the disappearance was out of character.

"It's very unlike the two not to be in contact," she said.

"Cindy has a huge personality, very bright, bubbly and fun with a wicked sense of humour.

"They went to the mines to knock off their mortgage. Scott is a boilermaker and Cindy is a driver at the mines."

Donna Astill, Scott's ex-partner and mother of his teenage child, has set up a Facebook page to appeal for information.

The mystery comes as North Queensland police also investigate the disappearance of gold prospector Bruce Schuler.

Anyone with information on either case should phone Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

How frustrating in this case, that their mobile phones aren't providing clues.

 

[bearbear]

I dont think you were wrong Fergie, I have been mulling this over all night. I am leaning towards disregarding the insurance (to a degree) and focused more on that particular night, and think things got out of hand, which is my point exactly re the bridge. Its just a sloppy, unplanned idea to me. Why would a woman get her hair done then drive (nay walk) a couple of k out to a small bridge, its really not that high. and jump off? it seems ridiculous and WRONG to me. Also that he would choose for her, the method of suicide he did...again WRONG. I just cant see this as being his plan

( this doesnt mean he didnt think about it, or consider it, or even take steps to find out about insurance etc. If the thought was lurking, its a well known fact that alcohol can give people excuses to do what they've been wanting to do. a couple too many drinks could make it seem like a fine idea, and things could just turn from that point on)

I also posted this last night, which fits in with the scenario

I really think you make an excellent point regarding the self incrimination. If he had been planning it for a while, he would have done at least a small amount of research (isnt that what you do when you are going to kill your wife?)....it is very odd that he waited until the 11th hour to suddenly say to himself 'gee, how should I act now that I've followed through on all the other aspects of my dastardly plan?'

It definitely seems like an action taken by someone who is a bit 'frantic' and trying to tie up loose ends as oppposed to someone 'following the plan'

so Fergie, don't think you were wrong just yet...there is so much we dont know
:moo: :moo: :moo: :moo: :moo:

yes, im starting to think this too. allison was killed in a rage that night, maybe he was under the influence of a few drinks, or something else, he had probably fantasised about the insurance money and killing her, but never really thought he would do it. its all so sloppy, if it was premeditated he surely would have done his online research in a cybercafe and have known where to put her body and read about luminol testing etc and had a better story for the police. it sounds like this was all done last minute in panic mode

the other thing, regarding a second arrest, didnt police say in one of their statements there would be no second arrest? ill try to find it

 

[Gemini Girl]

yes...I agree that Fergie wrote a great post here..We have talked so much about his wormy ways (caterpillary ways?), but not so much the 'why' he kept doing this to his wonderful, intelligent, loving and clearly attractive wife. IMO I think its highly probable reason that GBC cheated was because Allison knew the real him....and he no longer felt 'special' or superior in her presence. In his eyes, no doubt she made him look and feel bad, it was her fault.
In his egotistical mind, he must find someone who will be in awe of his awesomeness and he must do so post haste!! and when she starts to become less adoring and begin querying or harrassing him in any way, well, he must find someone post haste again to boost his ego!!!!

it reminds me of an old book on star signs I once read. The phrase she used to describe the Aries man was,

"I am back!" he said hotly, "why do you not cheer?"

Hmmm, sounds just like my ex

:floorlaugh:

JMO MOO

 

[marlywings]

Hi,

This is my first post, been reading from the beginning.

On the "Blue Car" issue, I'm a local, a few blocks from the BC house, and a week before the arrest, I got home, with my "Blue Captiva", and had two Police officers, asking for details of where my Captiva was on the day before and after Alison's disappearance.

May be the "blue" car is valid?

JMO

Hello & welcome....this may have been around the same time other Captiva owners in the area were questioned & police were trying to eliminate them from any seen on the roundabout & also Anstead. Police probably figured the silver Captiva could very well look blue under the conditions of that night.

May 28, 2012

POLICE are questioning western suburbs residents with cars similar to those driven by Gerard Baden-Clay about their movements on the night the real-estate identity's wife disappeared.

The Courier-Mail understands one local woman, who owns a silver Holden Captiva, was questioned at the weekend on whether she had driven through the Kenmore roundabout at the intersection of Moggill and Brookfield roads on Thursday, April 19 - the night Mrs Baden-Clay was last seen alive.

In an apparent bid to clarify reported sightings and rule out various vehicles in the area, the woman was also asked whether she had recently pulled her car over to the side of Mt Crosby Rd

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...llisons-murderer/story-e6freoof-1226368676196

 

[minni]

yes, im starting to think this too. allison was killed in a rage that night, maybe he was under the influence of a few drinks, or something else, he had probably fantasised about the insurance money and killing her, but never really thought he would do it. its all so sloppy, if it was premeditated he surely would have done his online research in a cybercafe and have known where to put her body and read about luminol testing etc and had a better story for the police. it sounds like this was all done last minute in panic mode

the other thing, regarding a second arrest, didnt police say in one of their statements there would be no second arrest? ill try to find it

they did, but they also said the GBC was no longer a person of interest at one point (I don't believe that for one second, they always had him in their crosshairs I reckon)
In fact, remember here on WS we spent much time feeling dejected and worried that they would never make an arrest, at times it seemed they had nothing at all, but it was all just a ploy for him to let his guard down it appears.
And of course, they dont share much either. I personally believe every single statement or comment released to the media is very calculated and planned very carefully. eg; the chipped tooth, yet blood in the car...we are getting the teeniest tiniest snippets here ON PURPOSE
:moo:

 

[linette]

Haven't we heard that Bawana has a bad temper?
Perhaps GBC is covering for someone else?


That's all I got!

Possible... I use to think {before the arrest} MAYBE {just barely maybe} someone else did it and he's just keeping quiet. BUT once the arrest was made and days went on I'm doubting he would just sit there and take the blame for his father... or anyone else. To be honest, his father would have to be the worst father EVER to even expect his son to take the fall for him. But who knows what the dynamics are in that family.
I do agree however, with whoever posted that the reason GBC is acting the way he is could be because he's not the only one whose butt is on the line here. Whether it be his father or someone else... but I think it would be someone who GBC, for whatever reason, sees as 'powerful' enough to get him off. Hope that made sense, I know what I mean. lol

 

[marlywings]

I think maybe the transport department can do a search of all the registered owners of a make and model of a car, within a specified radius. They would then get the owner details and tick em off, one by one. IMO
But they may also be able to identify the numberplates. Speed cameras can do it no problem and red light cameras too.

I think they'd have a hard time trying to identify plates from the camera at roundabout...unless they've been able to get hold of CCTV footage from elswhere.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Traffic-cameras-by-location/Traffic-cameras.aspx?name=Kenmore - Moggill Road - Kenmore Road (East)

 

[Liadan]

Sorry Sleepyhead here missed all the good stuff last night but had to put her two cents worth in!!!!

I am THE BIGGEST cynic and for me the moment I heard that ABC was missing, and that GBC had reportedly been the one who last saw her - that was it for me. I know so much for innocent until proven guilty! Sorry WSleuthers. But a few days down the track things were becoming more obvious. GBC's profile in the local area is way too 'look at me' and he professes that he is so squeaky clean with my real estate and important business dealings and I love networking and meeting people. And wow now suddenly press are being closed down and he goes into hiding even hospital. This whole scenario is totally in conflict to his gradiose and larger than life persona he tries to procure.

Then there is the ' come on OW, we are good at the media and talking, lets face them, we'll blow them away with our public speaking prowess'-he puts on his poor little me persona, and it is 'lets trust the police are doing everything' - and 'I've helped the police all I can' (past tense btw -nothing more he can do) And there's OW ready to poke him in the back and say shutup Gerard. Why did she not have her arm around him in support and talk about if any one has ANY slightest bit of info please come forward. Never all they have done is close ranks and ask for privacy.

The one good thing tho is that the dickies have the girls and the press do seem to keep away from that side of the story. Thank heavens.

And to the legal minds out there - if NBC is arrested or OW for that matter, would that mean they couldn't be called at GBC's trial?