IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[Reverie]

All I can say is:

Who ever did this is

VERY, Very familiar with the way LE works,

such as an ex-police officer, ex-Fire fighter, or Career criminal that has done this before.

OR

They were VERY, VERY, VERY Lucky

OR

It was a "Perfect Storm"

This^^^ makes me wonder... It would seem that the numerous van attempts recently would pale in comparison. I mean, it's hard to imagine a perp getting 'lucky' enough to disappear two little girls in broad daylight without a trace.

High rate of foot traffic, especially at the lunch hour IMO.

 

[Snowbunny]

As fast as those two little ones were going on video who's to say that someone hadn't already tried to encounter them just prior and they were riding like the wind to avoid this person(s) and everywhere they went they saw this vehicle and they took off to the lake to avoid an encounter but basically the perp or perps knew this? To me they were running for their lives in that video. Something spooked them and maybe they normally wouldn't go out of the area they normally rode in. Just a thought.

 

[sweetpea33]

As fast as those two little ones were going on video who's to say that someone hadn't already tried to encounter them just prior and they were riding like the wind to avoid this person(s) and everywhere they went they saw this vehicle and they took off to the lake to avoid an encounter but basically the perp or perps knew this? To me they were running for their lives in that video. Something spooked them and maybe they normally wouldn't go out of the area they normally rode in. Just a thought.

but they were in a business district...all they would of have done is enter a store or business if they were being chased/stalked in that fashion. Not to mention EC's house was right there close

 

[nursebeeme]

I have been just staring at this map since the newest times were released...

http://goo.gl/maps/rofeF

The sighting between 1230 and 1300 on Gilbert was most likely the man who was watering his lawn... he lives on the corner. Iirc he said that the girls would usually go past his house, turn around at the end of the street and go back. Is it possible that is what they had intended for their be right back grandma-quick bikeride? I would bet my bupkiss that he saw them go toward the lake... I further am just guessing that they never turned back around at the end of the road either. Thusly the area between gilbert and arbitus is an area that LE wants to hear from people who may have seen the girls. If you look at that map you can go right down the witness' street and get onto arbitus and it runs right into the nature trail close to where the bikes were found.

IDK.. but I think whatever happened for sure happened between that water grass guy's house and arbitus where they usually turn around (seeing as family says they would never generally go to the lake and this also fits with what the witness saying that he would always see them ride past but they would turn around at the end of his road and go back)

sorry for the long post.

 

[hambirg]

As fast as those two little ones were going on video who's to say that someone hadn't already tried to encounter them just prior and they were riding like the wind to avoid this person(s) and everywhere they went they saw this vehicle and they took off to the lake to avoid an encounter but basically the perp or perps knew this? To me they were running for their lives in that video. Something spooked them and maybe they normally wouldn't go out of the area they normally rode in. Just a thought.

This is always what I thought too. . .they were trying to get away from someone. Maybe they could have headed to the only place they figured a car couldn't follow them. Idk. I know when I was a kid, heck even now, if somebody is giving me a creepy feeling, I don't want to go home because then the person knows where you live. Maybe the girls knew this too.

To the poster that still feels they were taken off the street. Do you think they went to the lake and then were taken when they headed home. I think this is still possible. What time did they know they had to be home by? Did WC tell the girls she was leaving at 1:30?

 

[hambirg]

I have been just staring at this map since the newest times were released...

http://goo.gl/maps/rofeF

The sighting between 1230 and 1300 on Gilbert was most likely the man who was watering his lawn... he lives on the corner. Iirc he said that the girls would usually go past his house, turn around at the end of the street and go back. Is it possible that is what they had intended for their be right back grandma-quick bikeride? I would bet my bupkiss that he saw them go toward the lake... I further am just guessing that they never turned back around at the end of the road either. Thusly the area between gilbert and arbitus is an area that LE wants to hear from people who may have seen the girls. If you look at that map you can go right down the witness' street and get onto arbitus and it runs right into the nature trail close to where the bikes were found.

IDK.. but I think whatever happened for sure happened between that water grass guy's house and arbitus where they usually turn around (seeing as family says they would never generally go to the lake and this also fits with what the witness saying that he would always see them ride past but they would turn around at the end of his road and go back)

sorry for the long post.

Ugh, so many possibilities! I still wish we knew more about who EC talked to on Lake. Could have the girls went into one of the houses willingly? That SE corner of the lake would have been a convenient place to dump the bikes for someone needing to get rid of them quickly. :banghead:

 

[TxLady2]

The part that stumps me is:

Elizabeth and Lyric seem to be VERY good kids and followed their Parents guideline as to staying close to the house and checking in every hour or so.

Therefore, Why would they be going to the lake at 12:23 without checking in, and knowing they were not to go that far and knew they need to be home soon so Grandmother and Lyric could leave.


:waitasec:

Kids do things they've been told not to do sometimes, and the parents are none the wiser until years later, maybe never. I was a good kid, as far as my folks knew, but I can remember doing things with other kids on a dare, or because I didn't want the other kids to think I was a scaredy-cat.
Even good kids have secrets sometimes.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Y'all don't get exasperated with me for saying this YET AGAIN..... But I cannot shake the strong feeling that those girls were snatched off the street and likely just after the video camera caught their images.

I know, I know; the dogs.

I have zero explanation for that, but I just don't think the girls were taken from the lake.

My gut is saying they were taken very close to the camera shots, and that LE has footage also of the perp/perp's vehicle. Perhaps coming and going.

The bikes were "chunked" shortly after, either by the perp or an accomplice.

MOO

Explanation for the dogs - STAGING.

 

[cindysue]

As fast as those two little ones were going on video who's to say that someone hadn't already tried to encounter them just prior and they were riding like the wind to avoid this person(s) and everywhere they went they saw this vehicle and they took off to the lake to avoid an encounter but basically the perp or perps knew this? To me they were running for their lives in that video. Something spooked them and maybe they normally wouldn't go out of the area they normally rode in. Just a thought.

They were right by Lizzie's house on that video, I would think if they were scared they would have just gone home

 

[SapphireSteel]

All I can say is:

Who ever did this is

VERY, Very familiar with the way LE works,

such as an ex-police officer, ex-Fire fighter, or Career criminal that has done this before.

OR

They were VERY, VERY, VERY Lucky

OR

It was a "Perfect Storm"

You no longer need to have worked with/for LE to know about investigations.

The CSI effect and the internet.

Posters here, for example, would probably have a pretty good chance of pulling off the perfect crime.

The most likely scenario in my mind - PLANNING.

This was extremely well planned and organised and was pulled off without a hitch....aside from Mr C and Mr G of course, who could not be foreseen.

 

[TxLady2]

Wishful thinking, but I hope that they were taken by some kind of religious fanatic, who felt that they would do a better job of raising the kids , or a couple/woman who wanted an instant "family".
At least that way, the children have a good chance of being kept alive...
I know the odds are not great, but I will go with hope and possibility until proved otherwise. Time to come home girls.

I understand what you are getting at, but I hope it's not a religious fanatic! Elizabeth Smart was taken by a fanatic to be his "wife" and ended up being raped almost every day by that freak for months. I would not wish that horror on either one of these girls.
I know you didn't mean it that way, you meant just a nice Christian person, right??

 

[Reverie]

I have been just staring at this map since the newest times were released...

http://goo.gl/maps/rofeF

The sighting between 1230 and 1300 on Gilbert was most likely the man who was watering his lawn... he lives on the corner. Iirc he said that the girls would usually go past his house, turn around at the end of the street and go back. Is it possible that is what they had intended for their be right back grandma-quick bikeride? I would bet my bupkiss that he saw them go toward the lake... I further am just guessing that they never turned back around at the end of the road either. Thusly the area between gilbert and arbitus is an area that LE wants to hear from people who may have seen the girls. If you look at that map you can go right down the witness' street and get onto arbitus and it runs right into the nature trail close to where the bikes were found.

IDK.. but I think whatever happened for sure happened between that water grass guy's house and arbitus where they usually turn around (seeing as family says they would never generally go to the lake and this also fits with what the witness saying that he would always see them ride past but they would turn around at the end of his road and go back)

sorry for the long post.

No worries nursebeeme, . I love your insight. I'm an RN, too. Lol
OT:
I am quite surprised at the amount of real estate on the market around the streets in question.


Also, I wonder if LE's most recent, more specific info/request for help from the public is to see who does NOT come forward? Maybe particularly in that neighborhood? ::just grasping at straws:: again

 

[CN2Souls]

I have been just staring at this map since the newest times were released...

http://goo.gl/maps/rofeF

The sighting between 1230 and 1300 on Gilbert was most likely the man who was watering his lawn... he lives on the corner. Iirc he said that the girls would usually go past his house, turn around at the end of the street and go back. Is it possible that is what they had intended for their be right back grandma-quick bikeride? I would bet my bupkiss that he saw them go toward the lake... I further am just guessing that they never turned back around at the end of the road either. Thusly the area between gilbert and arbitus is an area that LE wants to hear from people who may have seen the girls. If you look at that map you can go right down the witness' street and get onto arbitus and it runs right into the nature trail close to where the bikes were found.

IDK.. but I think whatever happened for sure happened between that water grass guy's house and arbitus where they usually turn around (seeing as family says they would never generally go to the lake and this also fits with what the witness saying that he would always see them ride past but they would turn around at the end of his road and go back)

sorry for the long post.

:yes: I really think that is a good possiblility, However wouldn't LE than ask for anyone on Lake Street that may have seen the girls at around 12:30-2:00....?



Love it...:hug: ----Bupkiss---:lol:

 

[nikb]

LE has not been specific in what areas have/have not been searched (other than the draining and searching of Meyers Lake). however a friend of mine's family does own a small lake in Edale (I am not sure if it is Hansen Lake or not, it is my understanding that their lake is on the other side of the hiway from Meyers Lake so it may be) but he told me that during the weekend search after the girls first disappeared he joined in the search and volunteered for his family's property to be searched. I believe the grounds and out buildings were gone through but not the actual water. I have not heard of any actual water being searched except Meyers Lake.

BBM:
http://www.radioiowa.com/2012/07/15/few-clues-in-disappearance-of-two-northeast-iowa-girls/

It doesn't specify exactly where on the river they searched but it does say this, boats and search parties were combing a nearby stretch of the Cedar River for clues. I would think this would include the water as well if they were out in boats. I haven't seen anything mentioned about the other lake though.

 

[CN2Souls]

You no longer need to have worked with/for LE to know about investigations.

The CSI effect and the INTERNET.

Posters here, for example, would probably have a pretty good chance of pulling off the perfect crime.

The most likely scenario in my mind - PLANNING.

This was extremely well planned and organized and was pulled off without a hitch....aside from Mr C and Mr G of course, who could not be foreseen.

Thank uoy.

I went looking around after that post and on National Center For Missing and Exploited Children

Has the handbook for LE right on there. For any Perpetrator to see.

 

[nursebeeme]

:yes: I really think that is a good possiblility, However wouldn't LE than ask for anyone on Lake Street that may have seen the girls at around 12:30-2:00....?



Love it...:hug: ----Bupkiss---:lol:

by saying the specific street I believe they would narrow their target audience too much... not to mention the perp was most likely anywhere in that given vicinity that they were referring to last night (area between gilbert and arbitus):moo:

dang! I gotta get a barn for all my :moo::moo::moo:'s

 

[CN2Souls]

BBM:
http://www.radioiowa.com/2012/07/15/few-clues-in-disappearance-of-two-northeast-iowa-girls/

It doesn't specify exactly where on the river they searched but it does say this, boats and search parties were combing a nearby stretch of the Cedar River for clues. I would think this would include the water as well if they were out in boats. I haven't seen anything mentioned about the other lake though.

Thank you me neither,

And I was :earson: From the first day and never heard Hanson lake,

And that bothers the _____________out of me....

 

[Sunlight]

I could see the girls get more easily lured by an abductor earlier in the timeline, because they figured they had time and wouldn't be very late. However, given that they were sighted going toward the lake as late as possibly 1:00...I dunno. I think it would have to be a very influential person to get them to be that fearless of the consequences of being that late; especially, since they hadn't "checked in". JMHO

 

[TxLady2]

I always wondered....

Cell phones and cell phone Towers.

If they could Isolate all calls that were made from a certain tower in a certain area at a certain time, and then link them back to the user....

Like for example:

If someone was making calls starting up near the Collins home, then suddenly they were making call near Myers lake area...At the same time the girls were riding their bikes in the area.

and Track phones why can't they find a way to track them...
:waitasec:

Wouldn't that require some kind of warrant? I think they have to have a search warrant to have access to a particular individual's phone records, so I doubt if they could target every phone in that area. Just a guess, I really don't know.

 

[tlcya]

Nursebeeme: I think you may be right about the grass witness and the area just beyond.

SapphireSteel: Agreed, staging would/could explain dogs. Dogs look for girls scent. girls scent would be all over the bikes, hence the area around the grassy knoll and nearby wooded spot may have been where the bikes were taken through to get them to spot on trail where found. Explaining alleged dog scent/hits.

The girls at the lake has never felt right to me. I am not saying it is impossible because it is just as possible they were there. but that has never felt right for me. I have always thought the bikes were staged and not left there by the girls themselves.