GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #3

[cluciano63]

No offense, but it sounds to me like the legal system is something of a dinosaur over there in Australia. People have followed crime stories since time began and still have had both convictions and acquittals result from trials. Being on a jury is about being able to judge based on what you are told in court, in any event. For the most part, it works pretty well.

But it is an abomination that people are not allowed to know who is a sex offender. No excuse for that.

 

[Strangeworld]

IMO being a contributor here would be a valuable asset for anyone on a jury, we read, listen to, watch an incredible amount of information and often theres stuff that stands out like dogs balls to us and we want justice. someone who isn't interested in the case and is just doing their civic duty because they have to isn't going to care what happens either way, and IMO thats dangerous.

Lots of people complain about doing jury duty, but I'd like it if they employed suitable people as jury members on a permanent basis.

The reason is that when on a jury, you must only make a verdict based on information presented in court, not what you read on the internet, heard from a friend, saw on the news, etc. ONLY what is presented in court.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Respectfully snipped! I'm not sure I did that correctly, so please bear with me!

Anyhoo, I'm not Australian, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. My partner is from Queensland, though, and he told me that Australia does not have sex offender registries and that indeed, sex offenders may be out on parole and the public is not informed. :banghead:

That's true, there is a website but it's not government, not sure if I can post link http://www.mako.org.au/ausnews114.html
Has link to Crimestoppers and this disclaimer -
The purpose of this website/ information is to promote public awareness/protection, prevent you and those close to you from the potential dangers posed by individuals who have committed sex offences in the past and to deter sex offenders from offending/re-offending. Any criminal actions taken by persons against the offenders named within this site, may result in arrest and prosecution of those persons.

 

[Rudra]

they also said hes the only suspect, which i don't believe for a second

Theres a lot more to come of this and i expect more arrests in the next couple of days

I'm curious about this point as well, and without being specific to this case, I'd like to ask a general question. It is "standard" MO in these types of cases for the perp to act alone?

I ask because I generally don't read any criminology or related books, and first got interested in WS because of the Bayden-Clay case, which was quite close to home. So I'm hoping someone with more knowledge could help out. The big reason I ask is that I have three daughters who are just reaching the ages where they expect to be able to go out by themselves to meet friends in the city etc. I want them to be able to grow to be independent but I also want them to be safe. I think the more we know about how predators operate, the safer we will be able to keep our loved ones by educating them what to look out for.

 

[revampz]

The reason is that when on a jury, you must only make a verdict based on information presented in court, not what you read on the internet, heard from a friend, saw on the news, etc. ONLY what is presented in court.

Exactly!!! and how the h..l are they going to police that??? my grandmother is 90 and she doesnt go on the internet....about the only one I know though

 

[Makara]

Agree 100%. If the neighbor's testimony is reliable, then there was almost certainly more than one person involved. As far as we know he didn't share his house with anybody apart from his wife, and it would be a bit of a coincidence if these two or more cars just happened to innocently arrive at his place at 2am, while he is off kidnapping/raping/murdering Jill.

I sure hope no one else was involved...but if the above bit of testimony IS reliable, then we'd better brace ourselves :-(

I also believe that AB did not act alone in abducting Jill. What I'm not understanding right now is that the police have stated that AB raped and murdered Jill at Brunswick. Where in Brunswick could this have taken place? In the laneway near where Jill's handbag was found?

It is also interesting to note that AB was charged with rape and murder. IMO he has confessed to both charges. How else would the police know that a rape had occurred when Jill's body had not been located at that stage? An autopsy report has not yet been released to confirm whether or not a rape occurred but AB's been charged nonetheless. Great work Vic Police. :rocker:

MOO.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

That site sounds interesting. Do you have a link, aust amateur sleuth?


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http://aussiecriminals.com.au/tag/adrian-ernest-bayley/

 

[Strangeworld]

Exactly!!! and how the h..l are they going to police that??? my grandmother is 90 and she doesnt go on the internet....about the only one I know though

On a jury, they don't really police your decision-making. What they do is advise you on what you can and can't consider when determining guilt. Obviously the courts can't read minds to determine if you are considering any outside information, but part of the justice system's ethos is trusting the jury members to do this. It also applies if something is said in court, and jury members are told to ignore it.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Might be more on the news tonight about location etc. Police did say when they found the handbag that it was curious that no signs of a struggle and no forensic at the site.

 

[Rudra]

That's so true. WS has such effective moderation and guidelines for posting - it's been a real education to learn from others here, with rational, thought-out, researched opinions.

What WILL be the problem is the idiots who think phoning the only AB in Coburg (according to the phonebook) and making hate-based Facebook pages is a good thing to do. They are the ones jeopardising a fair trial. And while I would kind of like our suspect to meet a similar end to (say) Carl Williams, I also want to know that we/society are playing fair, even if he didn't. No-one wins if we stoop to his level. We need to behave better.

MOO, etc. :moo:

I think many of us, myself included, have learnt a lot from the WS moderation. It is the rules they use that make it such a credible site.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm curious about this point as well, and without being specific to this case, I'd like to ask a general question. It is "standard" MO in these types of cases for the perp to act alone?

I ask because I generally don't read any criminology or related books, and first got interested in WS because of the Bayden-Clay case, which was quite close to home. So I'm hoping someone with more knowledge could help out. The big reason I ask is that I have three daughters who are just reaching the ages where they expect to be able to go out by themselves to meet friends in the city etc. I want them to be able to grow to be independent but I also want them to be safe. I think the more we know about how predators operate, the safer we will be able to keep our loved ones by educating them what to look out for.

Unless it is a gang crime of some kind, sexual murders are almost always a crime committed by one person. I think this guy is of an age where he would be a lone offender. I will be very surprised if there are other arrests.

 

[pudd]

Meanwhile, the owner of the Coburg house, in Melbourne's north, in which Mr Bayley lived said he'd been a tenant there for six months.
She said he was a respectful and cooperative tenant.
"He's been very courteous in the house," the woman, who declined to be named, said.
She said she hadn't heard multiple cars pull up at the house early on Saturday morning.
Earlier, Coburg neighbour Dale Trotter said he saw at least two cars pull up outside the Coburg house at about 2am on Saturday morning.
"I saw some cars rock up. I didn't suspect anything of it," Mr Trotter said.
Another neighbour, Trish Murray, said she noticed up to four cars outside the house on Saturday.
Gym members at Fenix Fitness in Coburg say the 41-year-old man charged with murdering Jill Meagher was a casual member.
A Coburg local and current gym member said she last saw the man a year ago weight training on his own.
"He was pretty easy going, he was confident, but most of those boys are," the woman, who asked for her name not to be used, said.
"He seemed friendly, always had a smile on his face."
"He really just came across like your average Joe."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...f-murder-hearing/story-fndo1wyv-1226482868669

Now that's interesting - from the way the landlady is talking it sounds like he lives in one room of her house (with her) - she didn't hear cars at 2am when the neighbours did, and you wouldn't expect her to hear if she rented out her house and lived somewhere else. Also "(h)e's been very courteous in the house" sounds like they're in daily contact. Estranged from his wife and 4 kids? Luckily for them, I guess.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

I also believe that AB did not act alone in abducting Jill. What I'm not understanding right now is that the police have stated that AB raped and murdered Jill at Brunswick. Where in Brunswick could this have taken place? In the laneway near where Jill's handbag was found?

It is also interesting to note that AB was charged with rape and murder. IMO he has confessed to both charges. How else would the police know that a rape had occurred when Jill's body had not been located at that stage? An autopsy report has not yet been released to confirm whether or not a rape occurred but AB's been charged nonetheless. Great work Vic Police. :rocker:

MOO.

he has to have admitted to it IMO


The other thing that I'm wondering is how long was it before he dumped her body, if cars arrived at his home at 2am it must have been some time later.

I am eternally grateful that they found her before this rain set in. The rain today seems to mirror the sadness we all feel

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Don't think there will be a link on any news websites, this is from Channel 9

www.ninemsn.com.auNow you can watch the Nine News bulletin online every weeknight, just as you would on television.


Click on the links below to watch the Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane bulletins at 6pm AEST every night

Note: Bulletins will only screen at 6pm and are not viewable at other times. Tonight (September 28) only Nine News's Melbourne bulletin will be available. To watch Nine News stories at other times please visit our news video section.


NINE NEWS MELBOURNE LAUNCH Melbourne 6pm bulletin.

 

[Rudra]

Unless it is a gang crime of some kind, sexual murders are almost always a crime committed by one person. I think this guy is of an age where he would be a lone offender. I will be very surprised if there are other arrests.

Thank you. Would it be usual in such cases that the perp had a "deadly" weapon? I'm just wondering how a person could be abducted otherwise and be so intimidated they would not scream out. Or do such offenders use persuasion and charm?

Sorry, if this sounds stupid, but they are genuine questions I am struggling with. I'm finding it hard to understand how people like this could possibly capture a victim without a major life-threat at the initial contact or shortly after.

 

[Keentoknow]

Will a screencap do? I have did one.

ACA Ch 9 QLD is going to cover Jill tonight. In the next half hour.

 

[DrWatson]

Just applying some logical thought to this:

As the neighbour/witness has suggested that at least two cars "rocked up" to the accused's house around 2am - but there is nothing to prove that either or any of them were the accused. They could have been mates, and they could have found him not at home. We don't know the nocturnal habits of the man...

As I posted earlier on the thread - to dig a grave - even a relatively shallow one - one would expect an implement of some kind, eg a shovel. So either he had it in the car BEFORE he attacked Jill (premeditated but not necessarily victim-specific) or he called home or somewhere else to pick up a shovel or something similar AFTER the deed.

Where did he have his car? HOW the heck did he con Jill into (a) following him, and (b) getting into his car? There was possibly one scream (the Turkish restaurant allegedly heard one) which may suggest that she was being forced into a car. Or it could have been him forcing himself upon her - he is, it appears, an experienced rapist! So when, and how, did he murder her? And why? He has apparently committed many rapes previously, so why this one for the escalation? What did Jill do that caused him to proceed to the murder, as opposed to just running off afterwards as he has done previously?

What do the police know that we don't? And why did the police make that apparently false statement that the man has no previous - when he has spent many years in jail and is apparently on the sex offenders register?

Still a lot of questions to answer.....

 

[marlywings]

You have been asked not to post newspaper clippings as the report needs to be linkable & dated because of copyright issues....please adhere to the rules.

 

[oz_sleuth]

Would it be enough time to get from Brunswick to Colburg, directly after the abduction?

its literally a 2 minute drive from the CCTV footage to his house

His house basically borders Coburg/Brunswick

Thats why when I see hes been charged with raping and murdering Jill in 'Brunswick', i still have a feeling it took place at his home.

 

[truthound]

You know it doesn't mean you couldn't bring an open mind to the case. It could be argued that you might be preferred as a juror having shown an interest and being informed. Being a contributor to a controlled forum such as WS is markedly different to the idiots creating FB pages and posting rubbish, wanting to take the law into their own hands.
.

^^ Agree with your first point.
With regard to the subsequent points, also agree: the laws need to be dragged into the 21st century. Sadly that won't happen before this case goes to trial. :-(

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