IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[passionflower]

Lofty's keeps their back door locked. You have to go in and have someone open it for you. Usually only entertainment or deliveries come in that way. Oh, and their beer garden is right out from surrounded by one of those orange plastic snow fences
.

BBM.........ahh deliveries........have box trucks usually!
LE ask for delivery log????
My business had a back door like that, BUT some of my lazy employees
would semi close that door and snuck out for a puff on a cig now and then.

 

[Marilynilpa]

All of this talk about the girls not ever making it to the lake is interesting.

But weren't there dogs at the lake that detected their scent? I know we discussed this at length on some of the earlier threads. Sarx, a verified SAR person, answered many questions about that. I believe GrainneDhu, also, weighed in on the subject. I haven't gone back to look for the posts, I'm just going by what I recall.

I found this earlier today while looking for something else, and thought I'd post it here. It's Tammy's comments about her own investigation:

Quote:

But what I`m saying is, so I -- after the tape came down, I went back in that area and I started doing my own investigation, and looking around and seeing what I could see. And I could so feel that somebody had come down here, had been watching the girls for quite some time -- whether it even started as they left Heather and Mom`s place -- they`d been following them and watching them, seen them come down here.

They know the area very well, watched the girls go around the lake. He knew how to access the back because he seen them heading down there. You know, maybe they were down there, you know, standing on those rocks, tossing them in the water, as kids do.

Anyway -- and it was a very hot, lazy Friday. There wasn`t many people out. I kind of looked around to see because after where the bikes were dropped on the bike trail, there`s about 400 yards of forest, and then that grassy area where I`m telling you that somebody could easily access the bike trail from, park their car along that grassy forest and got out and had a knife or whatever it was, and said to the girls, you know, Get in this vehicle right now or it`s over with for you.

And I could so see that -- that, you know, happening because, you know, where -- where are the girls, you know?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

 

[passionflower]

dog scent could of been off bikes? purse? articles tossed by perp?
Maybe he walked around for a minute with some article from 1 of the girls?
JMOO

 

[chelsea6]

Yes, take a second look at Casey's Pub & Eatery in Evansdale.

http://local.yahoo.com/info-67018252-caseys-pub-eatery-restaurant-evansdale

 

[Marilynilpa]

Here's something about the search dogs at Meyers Lake:

Abben confirms bloodhounds brought in by the FBI picked up the girls' scent near the trail where their bicycles were found, but he would not elaborate.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...cousins-scents/story?id=16798151#.UM5aF288CSo

So if the FBI dogs detected the girls' scents at the lake, wouldn't that mean the girls actually made it to the lake that day?

I'm not trying to shoot down anyone's theories, by the way. I just know we have a lot of new posters who might not know about the search dogs at the lake.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Yes, take a second look at Casey's Pub & Eatery in Evansdale.

Is this the one you were referring to in your post about Misty and Lyric and the cigarettes?

 

[Marilynilpa]

dog scent could of been off bikes? purse? articles tossed by perp?
Maybe he walked around for a minute with some article from 1 of the girls?
JMOO

BBM

This is something I know we talked about before, it was something I had wondered about. Let me go back to our earlier threads, probably thread 12 or 13, and see what our SAR expert said about it.

ETA: I don't know how to quote a post from a closed thread, but for those who are interested, GrainneDhu has a post on Thread #15 that discusses the scent dogs. Post #983.

 

[chelsea6]

Why would they go across Lafayette to a bar to "buy chips" when they could buy them closer to home?

Not as exciting, or maybe they wanted to play one of those games at the bar, who knows what goes through kids minds? :waitasec:

 

[chelsea6]

Is this the one you were referring to in your post about Misty and Lyric and the cigarettes?

Yes it is.

 

[roseofsharon]

Do we know the dates auctions were held for Cornbelt Auctions during the days leading up to the abduction and the days after the abduction.

Was there an auction coming up that weekend. Where does CA hold their auctions ... are they in their back parking lot.

Wouldn't CA have video surveillance of people bringing in items at their loading dock.

IMO

 

[superbee]

Oh no, this just caught my attention also..............the bar! Did they know someone that worked there.......could of given them treats.....groomed them?
a couple of guys watched them? This has my hinky meter on alert!
drugs and bars and men??????

The bar has had my hinky meter spinning since day one.

 

[chelsea6]

BBM.........ahh deliveries........have box trucks usually!
LE ask for delivery log????
My business had a back door like that, BUT some of my lazy employees
would semi close that door and snuck out for a puff on a cig now and then.

Wow, that could be!

 

[Bootsctr]

....but the lake that girl was talking about was in Waterloo. Why would Lyric asked her father about Meyer's Lake? He doesn't live there. Wouldn't it be more of Heather's or Lyric's GMA that would give the permission?

Lyric just got in trouble for going to a Lake in Waterloo. What did she think would happen if she asked for permission to go to another lake. This is very strange. Where does this Tammy's daughter live? Where was Elizabeth's brother when all this was going on?

After sleuthing many missing children cases, I have come not to expect any answers from locals or LE. It's a darn shame we don't have Greta on these things. She always asks what I want to know.

I miss Greta too! She did ask great questions. Can't figure out why she chose politics over missing children.... well, I have my suspicions.

Regarding Meyers lake and why the family thought the girls might have gone there, I thought Elizabeth might have ridden there with some neighborhood children. The ones that lived on Mr. C's (lawnwatering guy) street where he always saw Elizabeth riding. I thought Aunt Tammy said Elizabeth had ridden or gone to Meyers lake with the children that lived on that street. I'm probably confused.

 

[chelsea6]

Do we know the dates auctions were held for Cornbelt Auctions during the days leading up to the abduction and the days after the abduction.

Was there an auction coming up that weekend. Where does CA hold their auctions ... are they in their back parking lot.

Wouldn't CA have video surveillance of people bringing in items at their loading dock.

IMO

There are a lot of good ideas floating around tonight!! Hey, that auction place leaves items outside behind the building they can't sell sometimes. Maybe the girls stopped to look at them giving the perpetrator a reason to stop? :waitasec:

 

[Bootsctr]

Lyric had an older brother. Maybe she heard him talking about Meyers Lake, or perhaps Elizabeth mentioned it since she had two neighbor friends that often rode their bikes to Meyers Lake. Elizabeth was the oldest child in her family. Why would her little brother be with her?

I think this is what I remembered regarding Elizabeth and the connection to Meyers Lake. Thanks otto, as always!

 

[superbee]

I need to clarify something in my mind. The bar, this Lounge, is it possible for children to go into this drinking establishment, children under 19, or whatever the age for drinking is in Iowa? Can they go in to get a drink of water, buy chips, use the washroom? Be in amongst, or in the proximity of, the patrons who have alcoholic beverages?

 

[chelsea6]

I need to clarify something in my mind. The bar, this Lounge, is it possible for children to go into this drinking establishment, children under 19, or whatever the age for drinking is in Iowa? Can they go in to get a drink of water, buy chips, use the washroom? Be in amongst, or in the proximity of, the patrons who have alcoholic beverages?

Yes, they just can't sit at the bar I believe.

 

[Bootsctr]

All I know is what I've read in the msm. I don't do FB if at all possible because I find it upsets me.

Oh, plus what I know from a lifetime of living in Iowa. I had never realised so clearly before that Iowa has soaked into me bone deep.

My guess, based on something Heather said in her first interview after the girls were found (without her husband), is that the girls' bodies were skeletonized. There was some sort of reference to the fact that when the time comes to bury Elizabeth, they will be burying bones.

So my guess is that the girls' bodies have been at 7 Bridges park since 13 July.

One thing I do know, to try to shed some light on the scene. Seven Bridges has been described as a "popular" hunting and fishing spot but I haven't seen any msm articles actually quantify what popular means in context. I think there are some WS members who read "popular" and imagine a place that gets many human visitors a day.

My educated guess is that there were probably many days last summer where no humans set foot in the park. People who go fishing mostly seem to me to be doing it as a rationalisation to sit in a nice area, enjoying a nice day (I'm so shameless I just do it...). In order to uphold the rationalisation, they feel they have to go where they might actually have a chance to, you know, catch a fish worth keeping. Last summer, that was not 7 Bridges. The water was really low, which meant that the water temperature was high and the fishing would have been really bad.

There would be no reason for pheasant hunters to go to 7 Bridges park, it's the wrong habitat for pheasant.

During the various deer hunting seasons (there's something like 10 different ones, no kidding), there were probably a total of 5 to 10 different groups of hunters in the park during the entire season. So maybe a total of 10-30 people overall. And they would not all cover the same ground.

Seven Bridges would not be a good place to catch people making meth because it's a dead end. Too easy for LE to set up a blockade and catch culprits. Meth makers mostly prefer places that have at least two exits. They are generally desperate and drug addled people but even a very dim bulb can see that setting up to cook where LE can trap you with a single vehicle is not a good idea.

The final potential group of users would be teens partying. Here, common sense flies out the window. Most teens, so far as I can see, have precious little in the way of strategic thinking ability. They acquire it by being outwitted. There may have been a kegger every weekend at 7 Bridges but people at keggers stick close to the keg. That's why they are there. And those kegs are heavy, not the sort of thing you carry off into the woods. You leave it in the back of your brother's old beater pickup truck.

If LE comes, kegger attendees scatter into the forest but they don't go far. They don't want to get poison ivy and they want to be close enough to know when it is safe to come out again.

I would be surprised if LE finds anyone who walked within 50 feet of where the girls' bodies were found between 13 July and 5 December.

I hope that gives a clearer idea of what "popular" means in this context.

:yourock: Love your perspective! I too think that even though 7-Bridges was described as a popular place that it was not a place visited regularly. Also, with it not being private land or a leased for hunting purposes, I bet it was over-hunted and over-fished. Therefore, probably not overrun with many eager hunters.

 

[Squeeze]

I had read in MSM more than once that, while MSM seemed quite focused on Meyers Lake in the beginning, LE was not. In fact, a relatively small number were even there while that lake was being drained, and that a lot of the focus was closer to where the Collins live. I also read that LE did attempt to collect surveillance videos from numerous places up in north Evansdale, with the First Security State Bank, as well as Fareway Grocery specifically named. (They also interviewed a few employees of Fareway, who had been "out back on a cigarette break" that day).
OUR view of events has been mostly via MSM, and that was focused on that lake, primarily, and I feel such has had a tendency to skew perspectives a wee bit. JMO

Exactly. Ive been saying that all along. Just because they were draining the lake and that's where the media focus was, doesn't mean that they weren't focused elsewhere. In fact, I would not be surprised if it was a welcome diversion of the puplics attention so that le could focus on other leads.

And yes, there were dozens of places those girls could have hidden in those firstfew hours

 

[Bootsctr]

Lofty's keeps their back door locked. You have to go in and have someone open it for you. Usually only entertainment or deliveries come in that way. Oh, and their beer garden is right out from surrounded by one of those orange plastic snow fences
.

This area makes me think the perp could have had a reason to be in the area that day.... or on a routine basis.

Christine Gregoire an Attorney General from the State of Washington in the USA reports the killers are usually at the initial contact site for legitimate reasons. They either lived in the area or were engaging in some routine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-raj-persaud/child-protection_b_1950749.html