IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

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I had read in MSM more than once that, while MSM seemed quite focused on Meyers Lake in the beginning, LE was not. In fact, a relatively small number were even there while that lake was being drained, and that a lot of the focus was closer to where the Collins live. I also read that LE did attempt to collect surveillance videos from numerous places up in north Evansdale, with the First Security State Bank, as well as Fareway Grocery specifically named. (They also interviewed a few employees of Fareway, who had been "out back on a cigarette break" that day).
OUR view of events has been mostly via MSM, and that was focused on that lake, primarily, and I feel such has had a tendency to skew perspectives a wee bit. JMO

BBM

Just to keep things "official", I believe the Fareway Grocery info came from FB, it was never reported in MSM.

If I'm wrong, please provide a link to that - I've been hearing this rumor from early on but have never seen it verified. TIA
 
BBM.........ahh deliveries........have box trucks usually!
LE ask for delivery log????
My business had a back door like that, BUT some of my lazy employees
would semi close that door and snuck out for a puff on a cig now and then.

I would hope if anyone saw a delivery truck headed to 7-Bridges on July 13th would recall that at some point. Definitely would be out of the ordinary in my opinion. :what:
 
Yes, they just can't sit at the bar I believe.

I had no idea, not that I am saying it is wrong, just completely different than where I live. I wonder then if the girls ever did go into the Lounge to buy food, use the washroom, etc. and a person with bad ideas saw them in there, and out and about, and befriended them? Wore down their natural reservations of speaking to and being around strangers? I am also wondering what delayed Lyric and the other girl when they were late getting back a few days before. Someone may have been grooming them for some time.
 
dog scent could of been off bikes? purse? articles tossed by perp?
Maybe he walked around for a minute with some article from 1 of the girls?
JMOO

My thoughts exactly. If the girls' belongings were at the lake then their scent was at the lake. I have gone back to several articles that talked about the girls' scent being at the lake. Thought there was one specific article where the FBI spokeswoman Breault said the dogs went right to the water's edge, but that article has been amended to say the FBI bloodhounds indicated the girls' scent were "near" area of the lake. "Near" could mean a lot of places including the 3 roads that were released later as "areas of interest."
 
Here's something about the search dogs at Meyers Lake:

Abben confirms bloodhounds brought in by the FBI picked up the girls' scent near the trail where their bicycles were found, but he would not elaborate.http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...cousins-scents/story?id=16798151#.UM5aF288CSo

So if the FBI dogs detected the girls' scents at the lake, wouldn't that mean the girls actually made it to the lake that day?

I'm not trying to shoot down anyone's theories, by the way. I just know we have a lot of new posters who might not know about the search dogs at the lake.

"Near" is the word that confounds me now. :waitasec:
 
I had no idea, not that I am saying it is wrong, just completely different than where I live. I wonder then if the girls ever did go into the Lounge to buy food, use the washroom, etc. and a person with bad ideas saw them in there, and out and about, and befriended them? Wore down their natural reservations of speaking to and being around strangers? I am also wondering what delayed Lyric and the other girl when they were late getting back a few days before. Someone may have been grooming them for some time.

Yes, that could be too. I always see kids coming in the bar (not staying by themselves) for a candy bar, chips, pop.. even a glass of water if they are hot, and it REALLY was hot then, but they had drinks at home they hadn't finished. And a kid that has been in a bar before with their mom wouldn't have as many reservations about going in. I don't know if she had been in Lofty's before or not, but they could have been riding bikes behind it.
 
Exactly. Ive been saying that all along. Just because they were draining the lake and that's where the media focus was, doesn't mean that they weren't focused elsewhere. In fact, I would not be surprised if it was a welcome diversion of the puplics attention so that le could focus on other leads.

And yes, there were dozens of places those girls could have hidden in those firstfew hours

I don't know.... the family dynamics were so distracting I think LE's focus was mainly on Dan and Misty. When LE annouced the family was not cooperating (i.e. Dan mainly I believe), it seems like LE was not looking elsewhere. Misty and Dan met with a lawyer. MIsty held her last presser and asked that LE look beyond Black Hawk county, specifically she asked that LE look north. Yes, I know still too, too vague, but curious none-the-less. I can't remember exactly how long it took LE to re-classify the girls as missing to it being an abduction. It took too long to rule out the family's involvement, but certainly not faulting LE in the least. It's just a sad and very unfortunate situation. I hope and pray that whomever did this will be caught soon. This community deserves to know that this killer is caught and brought to justice as soon as possible.
 
Oh, and FWIW, that small "strip mall" seems to have been about half empty. Even the post office had shut down was was vacant since the previous October! In short, a relatively 'desolate' spot, in a way.

So if somebody had access, legal or otherwise, to one of those empty stores, they could have backed a van or truck up to the rear as if they were making a delivery, and then grabbed or lured the girls as they rode past?
 
So if somebody had access, legal or otherwise, to one of those empty stores, they could have backed a van or truck up to the rear as if they were making a delivery, and then grabbed or lured the girls as they rode past?

Very good question! The kids may even have stopped to ask why they were there, maybe wondering if a new 'store' was going to open soon and what it would be.
 
Do we know the dates auctions were held for Cornbelt Auctions during the days leading up to the abduction and the days after the abduction.

Was there an auction coming up that weekend. Where does CA hold their auctions ... are they in their back parking lot.

Wouldn't CA have video surveillance of people bringing in items at their loading dock.

IMO

Here's Cornbelt Auction's web site with answers to those questions. CAUTION! Loud tractor noise when fully loaded! <lol>

http://www.cornbeltauctions.com/
 
I think so. Wilma said that they rode their bikes around the "loop" and that she kept an eye on them. They were riding away from the house towards River Forest Road when they were last seen on video.

I'm trying to understand the route that may have been taken by the perp if he abducted the girls within a block of the house ... not sure how this will work out ... it's difficult to squish the maps down to a size that doesn't blow margins

<Reluctantly, respectfully & wowingly snipped by borndem>

Just gotta say it again, Sam, er, I mean Otto the Amazing One --

You are a wonder. Thank you for being so generous with your patience and talent!

A picture is worth 1,000 words, especially for some of us...
icon11.gif
 
I thought the FBI had confirmed that the dogs indicated the girls had been at Meyers Lake. However, in my effort to find that confirmation, I have actually found the opposite:

Quote:

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said the reaction from the dogs Monday night indicated a "strong possibility" the girls had been at the lake, less than a mile from their grandmother's house where they were last reported seen Friday. However, Breault said because there were no confirmed sightings at the lake, authorities couldn't be certain.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/17/fbi-dogs-join-search-for-missing-iowa-girls/#ixzz2FHCiq4oq

BBM

So without confirmed sightings of Lyric and Lizzie at the lake on July 13th, authorities can't be certain the girls were there, just a strong possibility.

Which, IMO, does leave open the possibility that the girls never made it to the lake that day.

I personally feel they were taken from the lake trail, but remain open to other logical scenarios.
 
So if somebody had access, legal or otherwise, to one of those empty stores, they could have backed a van or truck up to the rear as if they were making a delivery, and then grabbed or lured the girls as they rode past?

I don't know what to call them, but those white storage trailers parked right on Cornbelt Auctions parking lot, where the video surveillance picked up the girls on their bikes, has gotten my attention. What is kept in those trailers.

I think Ledermans is right next door and that is where WC said she last saw them.

In the video surveillance, when JP is being interviewed, you can see tables and suitcases in the background that weren't set up in the video surveillance shot, so CA must have been preparing for an auction shorty after the abduction.

IMO
 
I don't know what to call them, but those white storage trailers parked right on Cornbelt Auctions parking lot, where the video surveillance picked up the girls on their bikes, has gotten my attention. What is kept in those trailers.

I think Ledermans is right next door and that is where WC said she last saw them.

In the video surveillance, when JP is being interviewed, you can see tables and suitcases in the background that weren't set up in the video surveillance shot, so CA must have been preparing for an auction shorty after the abduction.

IMO

It has been awhile now since I watched the video of the girls riding bikes, but I do remember seeing those trailers or buildings on the lot and wondering about them too. If I recall correctly, on the left in the video is a deck with a chair where I presume folks go out to have a puff.

I suspect, if the girls were like me, if they saw a person often, not even speaking to them, their stranger alert system may be down a notch or two. I have to keep reminding myself to be cautious, and I'm an old crow, not 2 young girls zipping around on their bikes on a nice summer day.

I wonder, if instead of the lost puppy scenario, the perp, or one of them, pretended to fall and be hurt, as the girls were coming by a parking lot? Even most adults would react with help, instead of leaving the 'injured' person and run into a business or home to call 911 and bring aid.
 
All I know is what I've read in the msm. I don't do FB if at all possible because I find it upsets me.

Oh, plus what I know from a lifetime of living in Iowa. I had never realised so clearly before that Iowa has soaked into me bone deep.

My guess, based on something Heather said in her first interview after the girls were found (without her husband), is that the girls' bodies were skeletonized. There was some sort of reference to the fact that when the time comes to bury Elizabeth, they will be burying bones.

So my guess is that the girls' bodies have been at 7 Bridges park since 13 July.

One thing I do know, to try to shed some light on the scene. Seven Bridges has been described as a "popular" hunting and fishing spot but I haven't seen any msm articles actually quantify what popular means in context. I think there are some WS members who read "popular" and imagine a place that gets many human visitors a day.

My educated guess is that there were probably many days last summer where no humans set foot in the park. People who go fishing mostly seem to me to be doing it as a rationalisation to sit in a nice area, enjoying a nice day (I'm so shameless I just do it...). In order to uphold the rationalisation, they feel they have to go where they might actually have a chance to, you know, catch a fish worth keeping. Last summer, that was not 7 Bridges. The water was really low, which meant that the water temperature was high and the fishing would have been really bad.

There would be no reason for pheasant hunters to go to 7 Bridges park, it's the wrong habitat for pheasant.

During the various deer hunting seasons (there's something like 10 different ones, no kidding), there were probably a total of 5 to 10 different groups of hunters in the park during the entire season. So maybe a total of 10-30 people overall. And they would not all cover the same ground.

Seven Bridges would not be a good place to catch people making meth because it's a dead end. Too easy for LE to set up a blockade and catch culprits. Meth makers mostly prefer places that have at least two exits. They are generally desperate and drug addled people but even a very dim bulb can see that setting up to cook where LE can trap you with a single vehicle is not a good idea.

The final potential group of users would be teens partying. Here, common sense flies out the window. Most teens, so far as I can see, have precious little in the way of strategic thinking ability. They acquire it by being outwitted. There may have been a kegger every weekend at 7 Bridges but people at keggers stick close to the keg. That's why they are there. And those kegs are heavy, not the sort of thing you carry off into the woods. You leave it in the back of your brother's old beater pickup truck.

If LE comes, kegger attendees scatter into the forest but they don't go far. They don't want to get poison ivy and they want to be close enough to know when it is safe to come out again.

I would be surprised if LE finds anyone who walked within 50 feet of where the girls' bodies were found between 13 July and 5 December.

I hope that gives a clearer idea of what "popular" means in this context.
Great post, thank you. I was thinking if there were keggers out there that people would be wandering off to the bushes to use the facilities. They would wander far enough away from the fire and the keg so that they wouldn't be seen.
Also, where do people park when they have those keg parties? TIA
 
I was at the mall today, watching kids of various ages and seeing their excitement over Christmas. I hurt so badly for Drew, Heather, Misty, Dan, Wylma - this should be a time for wrapping Christmas gifts, not thinking about burying two young girls.

And I am so sad for the parents who lost young children in Newtown, CT, parents who will get up tomorrow and face another day of unimaginable sorrow.

In a country that is so blessed, we have way too much tragedy.
 
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