IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[GrainneDhu]

I'm convinced that this is a sexually motivated abduction and murder ... always have been. However, I was responding to a comment that suggested that this was not sexually motivated ... perhaps that poster can respond to your question.

Otto, you're not alone. I believe it was a sexually motivated crime and so do Drew and Heather Collins. Drew Collins voiced it and Heather was nodding her head when he said it, so I assume that they are in agreement on that.

 

[chelsea6]

Otto, you're not alone. I believe it was a sexually motivated crime and so do Drew and Heather Collins. Drew Collins voiced it and Heather was nodding her head when he said it, so I assume that they are in agreement on that.

I remember that!! :what:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Otto, you're not alone. I believe it was a sexually motivated crime and so do Drew and Heather Collins. Drew Collins voiced it and Heather was nodding her head when he said it, so I assume that they are in agreement on that.

Respectfully, Heather and Drew have also specifically requested LE to not to tell them details of what occurred, so presumably they would be guessing, just like us.

 

[hollyblue]

I agree.

There was an ongoing sex crime in Missouri that just came to light. A girl who came to the attention of Ed and Marilyn Bagley by dating their son. She was in the foster system due to a history of physical and sexual abuse and is described as mentally impaired. The Bagleys held her prisoner for 8 years, in part by coercing her to sign a contract that purportedly gave Ed Bagley the right to do anything to her; such a contract is not legal but the victim did not have the education and perhaps not the mental ability to understand that.

She was finally rescued when she suffered a cardiac arrest while Ed Bagley was torturing her with electric shocks and smothering her at the same time. The hospital medical personnel were highly concerned and suspicious after they got a look at her assorted bruises and scars. It's a miracle she survived.

Marilyn Bagley struck a plea deal where she pled guilty to assault. Not only did she help her husband keep the victim captive, she participated in torturing and sexually assaulting her.

It is unusual for a woman to be involved in a sexual crime as a perpetrator but it is far from unheard of.

OMG, how sick and twisted. Prayer for this girl's recovery.

 

[dizzigirl1]

Respectfully. people go through many phases of thought when they are grieving. At some point the parents may have changed their minds & now know where LE are at. They are throwing themselves into life & supporting causes while trying to get through the loss of their daughter. I could not imagine losing my child let alone how i would behave as time when on. I believe at some point, i would want to know. We can all stick our head in the sand at one time or another & then change our minds....thats a very human thing to do.

 

[Confusion]

We will have to disagree on that one. I think he was dubious, right from the start, and who knows why?

I doubt the concept of staging would even have come up if it wasn't for what he said.

My opinion only.

He did word a couple of things a bit strangely. He wouldn't say where the bikes were found, he would only say, "When I arrived, the bikes were...", and he also made the comment that we know the bikes were there, or something like that. Both statements sounded like he was trying not to say that he didn't think the girls had been there without lying,

 

[Marilynilpa]

Mike Wiser/Des Moines Bureau Updated: 25 January 2013
thegazette.com

A Republican state senator called for Statehouse public hearings on the death penalty during an emotional news conference Friday.
State Sen. Kent Sorenson, R-Milo, has championed the idea of reintroducing the death penalty in Iowa since the abduction and killing of Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, this summer.
Elizabeth’s parents joined Sorenson and parents of other missing and murdered children at a Capitol news conference where the senator outlined five pieces of legislation he plans to introduce this session.


Sorenson’s bills would:

• Allow for the death penalty in certain cases.
  [*]Require the chemical castration of people who commit serious sex crimes.
• Eliminate earned time in prison for serious sex offenses.
• Require the electronic monitoring of sex offenders.
• Notify hunters when a missing child is reported. <snipped>

BBM

I know I might anger some people when I say that the section I bolded worries me. I'm not some "bleeding heart liberal", but to require the chemical castration of someone IMO is a slippery slope. I don't want to give the government that kind of authority over anyone, not even a child molester.

From everything I've read about child molesters, they are driven by a multitude of different urges. Sex is not always the driving force - in many cases the goal is control over someone as opposed to just a sexual urge.

Forcing someone to undergo chemical castration ignores the underlying factors that cause sexual abusers to do what they do, IMO.

I am not someone who believes in light punishment for sexual abusers by any means - I think they should be locked away where there is no chance of them ever hurting anyone again. I just have great concerns over our government forcing such prisoners to undergo chemical castration. JMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

Otto, you're not alone. I believe it was a sexually motivated crime and so do Drew and Heather Collins. Drew Collins voiced it and Heather was nodding her head when he said it, so I assume that they are in agreement on that.

Drew and Heather also attended a conference on the connection between drug use and missing children:

&#8220;This is ground zero for what&#8217;s going on,&#8221; Drew said, explaining why he, Heather and other members of their family made the trip to Des Moines to talk about their tragedy at the Preventing Abuse conference put on by the California-based Cedars Cultural and Educational Foundation. &#8220;A lot of people need to hear what&#8217;s being said here.&#8221;

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_43c9b688-1aa1-11e2-9abd-0019bb2963f4.html

It appears Drew and Heather are keeping an open mind about the motivation behind the abduction and murder of Lyric and Lizzie. JMO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM

I know I might anger some people when I say that the section I bolded worries me. I'm not some "bleeding heart liberal", but to require the chemical castration of someone IMO is a slippery slope. I don't want to give the government that kind of authority over anyone, not even a child molester.

From everything I've read about child molesters, they are driven by a multitude of different urges. Sex is not always the driving force - in many cases the goal is control over someone as opposed to just a sexual urge.

Forcing someone to undergo chemical castration ignores the underlying factors that cause sexual abusers to do what they do, IMO.

I am not someone who believes in light punishment for sexual abusers by any means - I think they should be locked away where there is no chance of them ever hurting anyone again. I just have great concerns over our government forcing such prisoners to undergo chemical castration. JMO

I agree.

They need to be sterlised first then segregated somewhere they can never access children again. They have forgone their right to live in normal society or to ever reproduce.

Chemical castration would not be needed if we stuck em on an island somewhere reachable only by air. Drop them some food and blankets once a month and let them tear each other apart instead of the innocent.

 

[chelsea6]

BBM

I know I might anger some people when I say that the section I bolded worries me. I'm not some "bleeding heart liberal", but to require the chemical castration of someone IMO is a slippery slope. I don't want to give the government that kind of authority over anyone, not even a child molester.
. JMO

You aren't angering me at all, Marilynilpa. It would be a dull world if everyone had the same opinion, so I value all opinions. Sometimes (well, a lot of times..lol) I change my mind after viewing other people's thoughts.

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1778

My thoughts on this one? After viewing this article, I don't think treatment with a drug called Depo-Provera is cruel and unusual punishment for our government to require of an offender. However, I'd much rather see the victims FAMILIES have the authority over deciding their fate, because that's what they did to their victims.

 

[Bootsctr]

LOLOL about the "So much for Kosher, huh?" :floorlaugh:

Yes, I'm like you, too and I'm going to call them. I've done all kinds of searches to see if Homeland Security has been involved in any way before I call, and I don't see anything but FBI, police, etc. There must be some department they have to help. Oh, and yes it really does feel like we're in jail and the killer is loose.. NOT fair!! :jail: Thanks for your input Boots! :seeya:

You're welcome! Kosher.... and I can see why you guys don't like Bush too! :floorlaugh: Anyway, there have been lots of twists and turns and I very much appreciated your link regarding the slaughterhouse. I've got to read again because there was so much information and a LOT of dates that might correspond with other dates. ut em up: Lots of deals have gone down since then and now :deal:. It's a lot to digest and seems to all be intertwined and it gets pretty deep. Right now I gotta :werk: before I get a good dose of :nurse: for mentioning religion AND politics in a single post. But, I'll be back...:Bennymonkey:

 

[otto]

He did word a couple of things a bit strangely. He wouldn't say where the bikes were found, he would only say, "When I arrived, the bikes were...", and he also made the comment that we know the bikes were there, or something like that. Both statements sounded like he was trying not to say that he didn't think the girls had been there without lying,

It's clear from Abben's statement, on July 17, that investigators were looking at all possibilities.

"Abben said that while the bikes were found on the recreational trail by the lake, "that doesn't tell me (the girls) have been there, just their bikes."
...
Abben stressed for the second straight day that authorities have "no reason to believe there's been any foul play, at this time."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-believe-cousins-were-abducted?nclick_check=1

 

[cindersoot]

I totally agree SS, I think they have their suspect, just not enough evidence. They might be watching him like a hawk.

 

[cindersoot]

Jmo, but I never thought Abben's statements helped the public. I always wished he would step down from the podium and let someone with substance answer questions, like a detective.

 

[cindersoot]

I just wanted to comment on what you guys were talking about on what to do with child molestors. There are so many of them and almost everyday here in Iowa a new one is registered. What is wrong with our society that a man desires a child? I said it before and I will say it again. This world is so very evil. My liberal heart tells me, that if you molest a child your pee pee should be cut off.

 

[Gracelin]

I was under the impression that sex starts in the brain. Chemical castration may help curb abuse. But If an offender wants to offend he doesn't have to use his penis to do so.
As far as I know you can't castrate a woman. MOO

I just read you can castrate a woman.

Chemical castration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Correcting myself again.. so as long as the drug is administered it can help curb the urge..What happens when the drugs are stopped?

 

[threecrazykids]

I had never seen this article that was posted earlier.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/20025811/special-report

SBM

Gerard Meyers, Special Agent in Charge of the Crime Against Children's Task Force, has been a part of the investigation since the beginning.

"There was some information that we found on the computers but I'm not at liberty to speak to that. It was definitely a successful result, but it wasn't a smoking gun or we would have the case closed. But it's definitely resulted in a significant number of leads," Meyers said.

I wonder who's computer these "significant number of leads" were found on...and whose use on said computer gave them a lead. :waitasec:

Even moreso THIS:
The main focus of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation's Crime Against Children's Task Force is investigating digital communication between children and potential abductors.

The point of bringing them in was to look into communication between one of the girls and an abductor? Or are these people brought in to investigate the computers in general when a child is missing?

If they were brought in AFTER the computers were taken from the families I wonder if they had a lead from one of the girls and a potential perp? I can't see the original date of the article...this was updated in Nov.

 

[Multispeed]

I agree.

They need to be sterlised first then segregated somewhere they can never access children again. They have forgone their right to live in normal society or to ever reproduce.

Chemical castration would not be needed if we stuck em on an island somewhere reachable only by air. Drop them some food and blankets once a month and let them tear each other apart instead of the innocent.

Ok let's begin with the 4,000+ Catholic Priests who admitted raping children.

 

[Bootsctr]

While my heart agrees, my head tells me we can't. It's just not possible to group all RSOs into one group. First, not all child molesters have a pee pee to cut off. We know women can be sex offenders too. Yes, they could be sterilized but as a civilized society, the line has to be drawn somewhere. We have men that are RSOs simply because they had consensual sex with their underage girlfriend, parents find out, get angry, file charges, the guy is convicted as a RSO, but he's not a sex offender in my opinion. By law, yes. In truth, no, he's not a child molester. That's a big problem. I haven't researched, but is there a study that tells us how likely/can predict if a child molester gets caught, is prosecuted and pays their debt to society if they will molest another child? My heart tells me yes if they are allowed to be around children again.

 

[Reverie]

I agree.

They need to be sterlised first then segregated somewhere they can never access children again. They have forgone their right to live in normal society or to ever reproduce.

Chemical castration would not be needed if we stuck em on an island somewhere reachable only by air. Drop them some food and blankets once a month and let them tear each other apart instead of the innocent.

This begs the question; what is the most humane way to punish the inhumane?