Steve Thomas's Theory/Murder Timeline

[UKGuy]

The motive for any IDI theory is totally contrived. It sounds like the plot of a movie because it is a product of PR's imagination, IMO. Criminals enter a home, get what they want, and get out as quickly as possible. To believe the IDI theory, you have to believe that an intruder entered the house, purposefully left behind a bunch of evidence, somehow failed to leave any accidental evidence implicating him/herself, and then took off with absolutely nothing. No money, no kid. IT DOES NOT ADD UP.

I just keep coming back to Occam's razor. The PDI scenario is really the most simple explanation. It requires the fewest leaps and assumptions. The little detail that she did not want to go to Michigan is important. I can see PR getting ultra-stressed as a result of having to take care of everyone else. She reaches a breaking point and frames herself as a victim.

Who knows if PR and JR even talked about what actually happened? If PR sees JR buying the story, what better reason to keep it going?

midwestphd,
PDI looks the stronger of all the theories, until you are asked to explain the sexual assault, the chronic abuse and both JR and BR's collusion?

Something does not add up on both PDI or JDI.


.

 

[BOESP]

midwestphd,
PDI looks the stronger of all the theories, until you are asked to explain the sexual assault, the chronic abuse and both JR and BR's collusion?

Something does not add up on both PDI or JDI.


.

BBM. I must have slept through some of the depos and interviews. What collusion? :waitasec:

 

[OpenMind4U]

I think that depends where you are coming from and your thought process. For me the easiest solution is IDI. I have a much harder time working out the RDI theory.

Pirplegrl, honestly, I'm not trying to 'convert' you to RDI. Honestly!!!

Let's think together. Ramseys were married for awile. Parenting two lovely childrens: boy and girl. Becomes rich and famouse practicaly by themself, with a little help by Patsy's parents. Church goers, God believers. Have clean history, no criminal offends, no police records. Great house, nice friends....True America's success story. What could went wrong to associate such a peacefull family with such tragic event? What could transform intellegent people into monsters?.....

Are these your thoughts?...because these thoughts were mine at the beginning, 16 years ago!

I was trying to find explanation by hoping it's Santa Clause and his wife; hoping that JAR could have time to fly in and out from Boulder, hoping that one of their close friend was involved, hoping that JB grand-father is monster...I have no doubts that this was 'inside job'. But why???

At the begining, the image of the gorgeous girl with the rope on her neck and cracked head has devastated me to the point that I was searching for look alike murders in other countries to get some kind of common 'profile': MOA. I found nothing remotely close to this murder. The context of RN makes me smile. It was so damn childish in contrast with the brutality of the murder itself.

Would you agree with me that context/tone of RN and brutality of the murder do not match each other? That there was DISCONNECT?

And after, I realized that whatever is hidden must be the true reason.
SEX, MOLESTATION, PERVERT desire....I'll continue...I don't want this to be monolog. I really want to talk WITH you. I want to hear your thoughts...and let's not talk about theory yet...let's just 'spill the guts out' like friends do...OK?....I'll be waiting, with respect....

 

[deca]

BBM The head bash was said to be sufficient to "fell a 300 lb man". I still don't think BR had that kind of strength.

And we are to believe Lin Wood on this particular statement but not on others? The type of action Wood describes doesn't match the autopsy report.

What does a person's weight have to do with anything. If a 300-pound man or 150-pound man or 500-pound man or 135-pound woman or 45-pound child were hit on the occipital region with a baseball bat it seems to me the damage to the head would be just about the same. So I guess what Wood said is true ... cagey, but true.

I still think Thomas knew what he was talking about.

Yes, thank you BOESP. Your skull isn't thicker if you are 300 lbs vs 100 lbs. It would take the same force for both.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Pirplegrl, honestly, I'm not trying to 'convert' you to RDI. Honestly!!!

Let's think together. Ramseys were married for awile. Parenting two lovely childrens: boy and girl. Becomes rich and famouse practicaly by themself, with a little help by Patsy's parents. Church goers, God believers. Have clean history, no criminal offends, no police records. Great house, nice friends....True America's success story. What could went wrong to associate such a peacefull family with such tragic event? What could transform intellegent people into monsters?.....

Are these your thoughts?...because these thoughts were mine at the beginning, 16 years ago!

I was trying to find explanation by hoping it's Santa Clause and his wife; hoping that JAR could have time to fly in and out from Boulder, hoping that one of their close friend was involved, hoping that JB grand-father is monster...I have no doubts that this was 'inside job'. But why???

At the begining, the image of the gorgeous girl with the rope on her neck and cracked head has devastated me to the point that I was searching for look alike murders in other countries to get some kind of common 'profile': MOA. I found nothing remotely close to this murder. The context of RN makes me smile. It was so damn childish in contrast with the brutality of the murder itself.

Would you agree with me that context/tone of RN and brutality of the murder do not match each other? That there was DISCONNECT?

And after, I realized that whatever is hidden must be the true reason.
SEX, MOLESTATION, PERVERT desire....I'll continue...I don't want this to be monolog. I really want to talk WITH you. I want to hear your thoughts...and let's not talk about theory yet...let's just 'spill the guts out' like friends do...OK?....I'll be waiting, with respect....

Just want you to know I saw this and read it but don't have the time I need to reply. I will though when things settle down here later.

 

[redheadedgal]

And we are to believe Lin Wood on this particular statement but not on others? The type of action Wood describes doesn't match the autopsy report.

What does a person's weight have to do with anything. If a 300-pound man or 150-pound man or 500-pound man or 135-pound woman or 45-pound child were hit on the occipital region with a baseball bat it seems to me the damage to the head would be just about the same. So I guess what Wood said is true ... cagey, but true.

I still think Thomas knew what he was talking about.

not sure why this was directed at me... i was just providing the (possible) souce another poster asked for...

 

[Magdalyn]

Pirplegrl, honestly, I'm not trying to 'convert' you to RDI. Honestly!!!

Let's think together. Ramseys were married for awile. Parenting two lovely childrens: boy and girl. Becomes rich and famouse practicaly by themself, with a little help by Patsy's parents. Church goers, God believers. Have clean history, no criminal offends, no police records. Great house, nice friends....True America's success story. What could went wrong to associate such a peacefull family with such tragic event? What could transform intellegent people into monsters?.....

Are these your thoughts?...because these thoughts were mine at the beginning, 16 years ago!

I was trying to find explanation by hoping it's Santa Clause and his wife; hoping that JAR could have time to fly in and out from Boulder, hoping that one of their close friend was involved, hoping that JB grand-father is monster...I have no doubts that this was 'inside job'. But why???

At the begining, the image of the gorgeous girl with the rope on her neck and cracked head has devastated me to the point that I was searching for look alike murders in other countries to get some kind of common 'profile': MOA. I found nothing remotely close to this murder. The context of RN makes me smile. It was so damn childish in contrast with the brutality of the murder itself.

Would you agree with me that context/tone of RN and brutality of the murder do not match each other? That there was DISCONNECT?

And after, I realized that whatever is hidden must be the true reason.
SEX, MOLESTATION, PERVERT desire....I'll continue...I don't want this to be monolog. I really want to talk WITH you. I want to hear your thoughts...and let's not talk about theory yet...let's just 'spill the guts out' like friends do...OK?....I'll be waiting, with respect....

In IDI theory...

I have a very hard time with Patsy's lack of concern over the root cause of JBR's chronic vaginal issues and UTIs. We now know JBR was chronically molested by someone. The internal trauma that left lasting scarring had to have made JBR bleed and obviously cause repeated female issues with her, likely every time she was re-traumatized.

JBR would have had blood streaks/pink tint in her panties over the course of some of her previous molestations, one would think, especially since iirc, there was previous hymenal damage.

So, as a 'good parent', you bathe you child, see their underpants, see/know that she's constantly infected 'down there' and sore, yet the doctor you take her to, the family friend, doesn't look down there to see what the problem might be? You don't bother to ask him to look down there? Why don't you demand he examine her there?

Why would he not look? That's part of the examination one (even a child) would receive before the diagnosis of vaginitis. Did mom tell him not to bother, Jonbenet's too shy, just write a script?

With all these UTI's, why isn't mom or the doc thinking perhaps she should see a urologist?

Why wouldn't mom demand to check her out thoroughly and get to the bottom of this?

That the doctor states he never examined her vaginally really bothers me. Either he didn't because Mama told him not to bother (because of what she knew he might see) or because he's lying, and then he'd either 1) have to admit he is a poor doctor not to recognize signs of sexual abuse, or 2) have to admit he DID see signs, and never reported it.


I'm still scratching my head how JBR could have had a viginitis diagnosis without her pediatrician examining her vulva/vagina.

 

[deca]

This was the same doctor that was called over that morning on the 26th? TIA

 

[midwestphd]

I struggle with how to make sense of the molestation. JR does not seem to fit the profile of a pedophile. I am not saying he did not molest JBR--it is certainly possible. But was he molesting her in the middle of the night, hours before a planned trip to Michigan? Possible, yes. But how likely? Based on his previous behavior and the affair he had during his first marriage, it seems more likely that he would look to an extra-marital affair as a way to counteract the lack of sex that may have characterized his marriage to PR.

BR and JR "Playing doctor" could be the explanation for the evidence of molestation. The molestation does not necessarily explain or even relate the crime.

I do get hung on JBR not feeling "pretty" at the Christmas party. And the 911 call. But those could be red herrings.

 

[steff13]

This was the same doctor that was called over that morning on the 26th? TIA

I'm not as well-versed as some of the others, but yes, I think so. I think he was a family friend.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am just thinking about all the things in prior post directed to me, But I want to know the definitive proof she was molested previously.

 

[Magdalyn]

This was the same doctor that was called over that morning on the 26th? TIA

Yes, and he prescribed Patsy tranquilizers.

 

[steff13]

I am just thinking about all the things in prior post directed to me, But I want to know the definitive proof she was molested previously.

Prior vaginal trauma was noted in the autopsy. That's as close to definitive proof as we're going to get, I think, short of a confession or a video of someone molesting her. What would you consider definitive?

 

[midwestphd]

I think that depends where you are coming from and your thought process. For me the easiest solution is IDI. I have a much harder time working out the RDI theory.

I get what you're saying here, and you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. But it is not true that weighing the complexity and number of leaps/assumptions necessary to support competing theories is an entirely subjective process.

To support IDI, we have to make more assumptions and bring in more outside information than we do if we support RDI. We have PR's fibers at the crime scene. We have her wearing the same clothes. We have a high probability that she wrote the ransom note. The RN was written on her paper, from her home. We have R's own statements that PR often woke JBR in the middle of the night to take her to the bathroom. We have, in any scenario, JBR being awakened in the middle of the night. We have the paintbrush handle as the garrote.

IMO, we also have some evidence that JR pieced things together that morning, as ST points out. Of course, this evidence is not as strong.

It is like trying to put together a puzzle as best we can, knowing that some pieces are missing and will always be missing. The best option is to put the puzzle together with all of the available pieces, and to then see, as best we can, what overall picture emerges. To support IDI is like supporting bringing in pieces from a separate puzzle as a way to complete the original. Those pieces do not help complete the picture. They don't fit.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Prior vaginal trauma was noted in the autopsy. That's as close to definitive proof as we're going to get, I think, short of a confession or a video of someone molesting her. What would you consider definitive?

Is there an official autopsy report I can read?

 

[deca]

Does anyone else think it is weird that your daughter goes missing and you call HER DOCTOR to come to the house?? Even if he is a family friend, he was THAT close?
that seems hinky to me

And for what it is worth, "playing doctor" would not be that invasive, nor would it be something done time and time again to result in near constant vaginitis. IMO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I get what you're saying here, and you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. But it is not true that weighing the complexity and number of leaps/assumptions necessary to support competing theories is an entirely subjective process.

To support IDI, we have to make more assumptions and bring in more outside information than we do if we support RDI. We have PR's fibers at the crime scene. We have her wearing the same clothes. We have a high probability that she wrote the ransom note. The RN was written on her paper, from her home. We have R's own statements that PR often woke JBR in the middle of the night to take her to the bathroom. We have, in any scenario, JBR being awakened in the middle of the night. We have the paintbrush handle as the garrote.

IMO, we also have some evidence that JR pieced things together that morning, as ST points out. Of course, this evidence is not as strong.

It is like trying to put together a puzzle as best we can, knowing that some pieces are missing and will always be missing. The best option is to put the puzzle together with all of the available pieces, and to then see, as best we can, what overall picture emerges. To support IDI is like supporting bringing in pieces from a separate puzzle as a way to complete the original. Those pieces do not help complete the picture. They don't fit.

And to me, What you said with the supposing and things that were readily in the house, Don't make it any more close to an RDI result for me.

I don't know why people make so much of her wearing the same clothes the next day. I have done this many many times. I take something off I know is not dirty, Lay it over a chair and throw it on in the am to get stuff done, Or just so I look presentable until I shower.

 

[OpenMind4U]

This was the same doctor that was called over that morning on the 26th? TIA

YES, the same doctor-friend!

 

[OpenMind4U]

Is there an official autopsy report I can read?

Yes dear!!! This is our TREASURY archiving/library place. You'll find a lot of very important and truthfull information about JBR case.

Please read as much as you can!!!!!! You'll find there everything you need to have OBJECTIVE, EDUCATED, INDEPENDANT opinion. If you need the further help - just PM.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetindex.htm

 

[midwestphd]

And for what it is worth, "playing doctor" would not be that invasive, nor would it be something done time and time again to result in near constant vaginitis. IMO.

Well, it could, depending on exactly what was going on "under the blanket." It could result in vaginitis if dirty fingers or "toys" are used. With feces all over the place, the place was not exactly clean. The condition also would have grown worse with itching, etc. If PR knew she was being sexually abused, I don't think she would have continued to take her to the doctor with such suspicious symptoms.

I admit she could have been molested by JR; I'm just suggesting that I don't think it is LIKELY.