Steve Thomas's Theory/Murder Timeline

[Magdalyn]

Is there an official autopsy report I can read?

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm

Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation. the smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the vaginal wall/hymen, contain epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion. A small number of red blood cells is present on the eroded surface, as is birefringent foreign material. Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen.

I've read that at a presentation put on which included BPD, FBI, CBI and the DAs office side by side images were shown of a normal 6 year old's vagina, and the damage of JBR's from the chronic inflammation/ erosion, and all in the room were stunned.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Does anyone else think it is weird that your daughter goes missing and you call HER DOCTOR to come to the house?? Even if he is a family friend, he was THAT close?
that seems hinky to me
And for what it is worth, "playing doctor" would not be that invasive, nor would it be something done time and time again to result in near constant vaginitis. IMO.

Very good logic, indeed!....I think you've got it!

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

Edmond.DantesIII,
There is no forensic evidence, absolutely none linking to anyone outside of the Ramsey household.

That is patently false.

There is a ransom note which does not appear to have been written by anyone in the Ramsey household.

There is the body of JonBenet, so brutally murdered that any suggestion that she absolutely had to have been murdered by her parents strains credulity no less than it would to suggest that she killed herself.

And then there is duct tape, and cord, and footprints, and palm prints, and beaver hairs, and unidentified DNA, and a skull fracture which appears to have been made by an undiscovered crowbar or tire iron.

Henceforth, please refrain from stating that there is absolutely no evidence of an intruder. This is just not true.

 

[BOESP]

not sure why this was directed at me... i was just providing the (possible) souce another poster asked for...

Please accept my apologies redheadedgal for the ambiguous post. It wasn't directed at you. :rose::rose::rose::hug::hug:

My comment was additional information that refutes Lin Wood's 300-pound man comment, which I believe he used to try and side-track anyone from thinking Patsy was capable of inflicting JonBenet's head injury.

 

[Magdalyn]

Does anyone else think it is weird that your daughter goes missing and you call HER DOCTOR to come to the house?? Even if he is a family friend, he was THAT close?
that seems hinky to me

And for what it is worth, "playing doctor" would not be that invasive, nor would it be something done time and time again to result in near constant vaginitis. IMO.

When my child had his 4th ear infection in three months, I demanded we be referred to an ENT/Audiologist. And my hubby ain't worth 7-8 million and we only own the one house.

Why no specialist sought? Why no vaginal exam? Not even once in three years? Chronic UTIs can cause kidney damage in children. Thses paople who paid for the Dream Team to defend couldn't be bothered with a urology appointment?

Or were they avoiding a new doctor who would look too closely.

And the doctor being an close family friend and fellow church member makes his 'professional' opinion a little biased toward the Ramseys, IMO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm

Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation. the smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the vaginal wall/hymen, contain epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion. A small number of red blood cells is present on the eroded surface, as is birefringent foreign material. Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen.

I've read that at a presentation put on which included BPD, FBI, CBI and the DAs office side by side images were shown of a normal 6 year old's vagina, and the damage of JBR's from the chronic inflammation/ erosion, and all in the room were stunned.

What if she was a chronic masturbator? What if she had discovered herself?
How can they know that the inflammation did not occur that horrible night? Again, The "Ive read.... "part, Is someones impressions of other peoples impressions so I am leaving that out.

But if its true? How awful must that have been for them. EEK!

What I am looking for is undisputed facts. If you want me to see the other side, I just need facts and evidence. I promise to follow the trail and see where it leads but I want only reports and real time lines based on real fact. Not someone's thoughts about the facts.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I am just thinking about all the things in prior post directed to me, But I want to know the definitive proof she was molested previously.

When you'll finish with autopsy, I'll provide you with quotes from ST and Kolar books. If you would need more - I can provide links to other experts assays on this topic....but I'm sure you'll find everything you need at A Candy Rose (ACR)

 

[Whaleshark]

Does anyone else think it is weird that your daughter goes missing and you call HER DOCTOR to come to the house?? Even if he is a family friend, he was THAT close?
that seems hinky to me

And for what it is worth, "playing doctor" would not be that invasive, nor would it be something done time and time again to result in near constant vaginitis. IMO.

Respectfully, I didn't know there were definitive rules to the playing doctor game. Even if there were, one cannot expect all persons to play doctor the same way, by the same rules, resulting in the same outcomes, or lack thereof.

To the child, it could be exploratory doctor-playing, when it could, in fact, be an assault, molestation, or other abuse, due to escalation by either or both participants.... And either or both participants not realize that what is being done is now considered more than playing doctor, and now abuse, etc.

But either way, we cannot know whether either or both of the participants knew or thought what they were doing was abusive or wrong, or what their level of intent or understanding of playing doctor or abuse was.

So we cannot say for certainty that if they were playing doctor, by your definition, that it would not have resulted in JonBenet's injuries or death as we know it.

You can only know what the evidence shows and that her injuries show abuse, assault, and resulting death, but not that it could not have been from what you think you understand common knowledge, or someone else's knowledge of playing doctor is....

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

When you'll finish with autopsy, I'll provide you with quotes from ST and Kolar books. If you would need more - I can provide links to other experts assays on this topic....but I'm sure you'll find everything you need at A Candy Rose (ACR)

What I don't want is anyone's impressions or thoughts. I want just the report. I will meander over there. I was there last night reading It is a lot to take in.

Thank you!

 

[BOESP]

And to me, What you said with the supposing and things that were readily in the house, Don't make it any more close to an RDI result for me.

I don't know why people make so much of her wearing the same clothes the next day. I have done this many many times. I take something off I know is not dirty, Lay it over a chair and throw it on in the am to get stuff done, Or just so I look presentable until I shower.

Patsy's housekeeper, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, iirc, remarked that Patsy took great pride in not wearing the same outfit two days in a row. There was a television segment where Patsy and John appeared on television begging Boulder to help be on the look-out for a child predator and to "hold your babies close." She wore the exact same outfit for this televised segment that she had worn the previous day when Thomas and another officer had spoken with her. Thomas said he believed her doing that was her way of thumbing her nose at him by showing the world she could wear the same outfit two days in a row and it meant nothing.

It seems very unlikely to me that someone of Patsy's wealth and beauty queen background would appear in public two days in a row in the same outfit. That does not fit with the southern custom of what a "lady" (especially a rich lady) would do. That custom was ingrained in females born in Patsy's era and especially those in the Miss America circles.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Pirplegrl, honestly, I'm not trying to 'convert' you to RDI. Honestly!!!

Let's think together. Ramseys were married for awile. Parenting two lovely childrens: boy and girl. Becomes rich and famouse practicaly by themself, with a little help by Patsy's parents. Church goers, God believers. Have clean history, no criminal offends, no police records. Great house, nice friends....True America's success story. What could went wrong to associate such a peacefull family with such tragic event? What could transform intellegent people into monsters?.....

Are these your thoughts?...because these thoughts were mine at the beginning, 16 years ago!

Really, What I am thinking is how can other people think there is any cause for them to have done something so horrible with out any previous issues or complaints of this sort.

I was trying to find explanation by hoping it's Santa Clause and his wife; hoping that JAR could have time to fly in and out from Boulder, hoping that one of their close friend was involved, hoping that JB grand-father is monster...I have no doubts that this was 'inside job'. But why???

At the begining, the image of the gorgeous girl with the rope on her neck and cracked head has devastated me to the point that I was searching for look alike murders in other countries to get some kind of common 'profile': MOA. I found nothing remotely close to this murder. The context of RN makes me smile. It was so damn childish in contrast with the brutality of the murder itself.

Would you agree with me that context/tone of RN and brutality of the murder do not match each other? That there was DISCONNECT?

Im not sure. I need to reread it fully but my first impression was that it was written by someone who wanted to sound important but in reality was powerless.

And after, I realized that whatever is hidden must be the true reason.
SEX, MOLESTATION, PERVERT desire....I'll continue...I don't want this to be monolog. I really want to talk WITH you. I want to hear your thoughts...and let's not talk about theory yet...let's just 'spill the guts out' like friends do...OK?....I'll be waiting, with respect....

I appreciate this. I am not trying to be ignorant or disrespectful. I know that there are people here who believe with all their heart and soul the RDI. It seems incredulous to me. So I am willing to take this journey with you as we see where we may be far apart or even close on ideas..

 

[OpenMind4U]

What if she was a chronic masturbator? What if she had discovered herself?
How can they know that the inflammation did not occur that horrible night? Again, The "Ive read.... "part, Is someones impressions of other peoples impressions so I am leaving that out.

But if its true? How awful must that have been for them. EEK!

What I am looking for is undisputed facts. If you want me to see the other side, I just need facts and evidence. I promise to follow the trail and see where it leads but I want only reports and real time lines based on real fact. Not someone's thoughts about the facts.

I respect that!!!! ST and Kolar books are referencing the doctors/experts who saw the vaginal slides from autopsy. ME (medical examiner) who performed JB autopsy, was honest person. He wants second and third and fourth opinions before presenting the final report to BPD, FBI and DA. We have names of these experts who saw JB vaginal damage right after original autopsy. This particular aspect of the autopsy was very disturbing as you can imagine!!! The public version of Autopsy Report is NOT COMPLETE version!!!!! A lot of staff are hidden from public eyes, even today!

 

[Whaleshark]

That is patently false.

There is a ransom note which does not appear to have been written by anyone in the Ramsey household.

There is the body of JonBenet, so brutally murdered that any suggestion that she absolutely had to have been murdered by her parents strains credulity no less than it would to suggest that she killed herself.

And then there is duct tape, and cord, and footprints, and palm prints, and beaver hairs, and unidentified DNA, and a skull fracture which appears to have been made by an undiscovered crowbar or tire iron.

Henceforth, please refrain from stating that there is absolutely no evidence of an intruder. This is just not true.

See now here you go again with your own special pleading.... The level of brutality done to the child does not preclude the parents' involvement. For if that were so, no parent would ever be involved with, or accused of any severe levels of child abuse or murder of their own child or children. When in fact, not only is this not even close to being true, I've posted proof here recently more than once that not only do parents do heinous things to their children all the time, but they are the most likely to harm or murder their own children over strangers.

Over and over, numerous examples.... Specific statistics and proof of the reality.

Now you can choose to believe, or live in your own alternate reality, but it does not change the fact that parents are the majority of the perpetrators of severe abuse and murder of their own children.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Patsy's housekeeper, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, iirc, remarked that Patsy took great pride in not wearing the same outfit two days in a row. There was a television segment where Patsy and John appeared on television begging Boulder to help be on the look-out for a child predator and to "hold your babies close." She wore the exact same outfit for this televised segment that she had worn the previous day when Thomas and another officer had spoken with her. Thomas said he believed her doing that was her way of thumbing her nose at him by showing the world she could wear the same outfit two days in a row and it meant nothing.

It seems very unlikely to me that someone of Patsy's wealth and beauty queen background would appear in public two days in a row in the same outfit. That does not fit with the southern custom of what a "lady" (especially a rich lady) would do. That custom was ingrained in females born in Patsy's era and especially those in the Miss America circles.

But that is just his impression. Not a reality. And the housekeeper? I don't know. What if she had an issue with Patsy? I still don't take this as any evidence of anything.

 

[Whaleshark]

What I don't want is anyone's impressions or thoughts. I want just the report. I will meander over there. I was there last night reading It is a lot to take in.

Thank you!

The actual report is there for you to read yourself.

 

[Magdalyn]

What if she was a chronic masturbator? What if she had discovered herself?
How can they know that the inflammation did not occur that horrible night? Again, The "Ive read.... "part, Is someones impressions of other peoples impressions so I am leaving that out.

But if its true? How awful must that have been for them. EEK!

What I am looking for is undisputed facts. If you want me to see the other side, I just need facts and evidence. I promise to follow the trail and see where it leads but I want only reports and real time lines based on real fact. Not someone's thoughts about the facts.

The medical examiner is trained to be able to tell the difference between what happened that night and what is 'chronic' and what was damaged before and is now healed. Erosion looks like one thing and it happens over time.

IMO, it would be highly unlikely a 5-6 year old child would masturbate in an internal, damaging manner, as the inflicting of the internal damage would be painful, and be at cross-purpose to masturbating. Children touch themsleves where it feels good. On females, that's outside, and evidence shows painful irritated damage on the inside.

What I read was written directly by one of the four lead detectives on her case. And the autopsy results were one of the many things shown to prove the need for a grand jury, then shown to the grand jury. The grand jury voted to indict PR and JR. So I guess we'll have to assume that 12(?) people saw those autopsy results and added them to balance of all other evidence presented and all saw the same thing.

Her autopsy report is undisputedly her autopsy report. I don't think 'undisputed' facts exist anywhere in this case! Everyone disputes everything! :crazy:

 

[OpenMind4U]

I appreciate this. I am not trying to be ignorant or disrespectful. I know that there are people here who believe with all their heart and soul the RDI. It seems incredulous to me. So I am willing to take this journey with you as we see where we may be far apart or even close on ideas..

This is the right way to go!!!! I knew you have an OPEN MIND to take this journey. Let's do it together! And regardless to where this journey brings us - we'll do it proper way. Based on FACTS and nothing but the FACTS. Looking forward to our trip! :great:

 

[steff13]

What I don't want is anyone's impressions or thoughts. I want just the report. I will meander over there. I was there last night reading It is a lot to take in.

Thank you!

I have read the autopsy report, as well as Dr. Wecht's interpretation of same. Unfortunately, I am not a doctor, so while I can read and understand the report, I have to rely on people more knowledgable than myself to understand what some of the findings really mean.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I have read the autopsy report, as well as Dr. Wecht's interpretation of same. Unfortunately, I am not a doctor, so while I can read and understand the report, I have to rely on people more knowledgable than myself to understand what some of the findings really mean.

I recommend our WS medical expert: DeeDee. She's very helpfull person and her explanation is articulate, right to the pont!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The medical examiner is trained to be able to tell the difference between what happened that night and what is 'chronic' and what was damaged before and is now healed. Erosion looks like one thing and it happens over time.

IMO, it would be highly unlikely a 5-6 year old child would masturbate in an internal, damaging manner, as the inflicting of the internal damage would be painful, and be at cross-purpose to masturbating. Children touch themsleves where it feels good. On females, that's outside, and evidence shows painful irritated damage on the inside.

What I read was written directly by one of the four lead detectives on her case. And the autopsy results were one of the many things shown to prove the need for a grand jury, then shown to the grand jury. The grand jury voted to indict PR and JR. So I guess we'll have to assume that 12(?) people saw those autopsy results and added them to balance of all other evidence presented and all saw the same thing.

Her autopsy report is undisputedly her autopsy report. I don't think 'undisputed' facts exist anywhere in this case! Everyone disputes everything! :crazy:

BBM, while you may feel it improbable, It is not impossible. This occurred to me when I was listening to someone recently telling me about their daughter who had discovered herself.

I will read the autopsy a little later. I am hankering down for the snow... so I should have lots of time to read this weekend.