***Day 2 -Committal Hearing*** 11th,12,13th March 2013

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alicat said:
I doubt GBC would know when Allison last saw her best friend. I somehow get this feeling they didn't have the best relationship.

Just curious, how are you unaware of the visible scratches but you are so certain he is an innocent man?

IMOO.
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Sorry I didn't express that very well. I meant that I don't have anything to add on the issue of the scratches. They exist. I guess it's up to the courts to investigate what caused them. By the way I'm not certain that he's innocent, I'm just not so trusting of the police, media etc as some. I like to question the prevailing wisdom because it's often wrong! I also believe that motivations, even of police officers should always be held up to scrutiny. They have a lot of power and you don't have to be Einstein to know that not all of them are honourable!
 
stormyweather said:
Does anyone know who that woman was today? wow. Anyway. I might head in tomorrow if I can get a good parking spot.
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I saw this lovely lady in the courtroom on the first day. She sure does like her coffee. Anyway, I don't believe she is an ex lover, as she would be a witness and not be allowed in the court room.
" I don't love you, I hate you"
I think she was passing on a bold loud message from TM , and he knows she is TMs friend maybe? Maybe after the first days session , TM got to hear a bit more evidence, the scratches, screams, blood matching Allisons in the car, and was shocked, along with her friends.
I would do the same if I had the guts. Go girl!
 
lycheefarmer said:
Sorry I didn't express that very well. I meant that I don't have anything to add on the issue of the scratches. They exist. I guess it's up to the courts to investigate what caused them. By the way I'm not certain that he's innocent, I'm just not so trusting of the police, media etc as some. I like to question the prevailing wisdom because it's often wrong! I also believe that motivations, even of police officers should always be held up to scrutiny. They have a lot of power and you don't have to be Einstein to know that not all of them are honourable!
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No, not all of them are honourable. I'll agree with you there.

BUT, the majority are honourable and there may be a few 'bad seeds' who make the whole force look bad. The force has changed a lot over the years and I'm pretty sure they no longer 'put people away just to get the crime sorted.'
 
Aunty said:
I saw this lovely lady in the courtroom on the first day. She sure does like her coffee. Anyway, I don't believe she is an ex lover, as she would be a witness and not be allowed in the court room.
" I don't love you, I hate you"
I think she was passing on a bold loud message from TM , and he knows she is TMs friend maybe? Maybe after the first days session , TM got to hear a bit more evidence, the scratches, screams, blood matching Allisons in the car, and was shocked, along with her friends.
I would do the same if I had the guts. Go girl!
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It has been stated in several msm news reports that she is a friend of Allison's but no definite ID has come out yet. She was questioned outside court and she didn't respond. We'll see what the Courier Mail has to say in the morning.
 
My friend is appearing today in front of the hearing.
 
lycheefarmer said:
Sorry I didn't express that very well. I meant that I don't have anything to add on the issue of the scratches. They exist. I guess it's up to the courts to investigate what caused them. By the way I'm not certain that he's innocent, I'm just not so trusting of the police, media etc as some. I like to question the prevailing wisdom because it's often wrong! I also believe that motivations, even of police officers should always be held up to scrutiny. They have a lot of power and you don't have to be Einstein to know that not all of them are honourable!
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Would it be fair to say that you may have a pre-ordained prejudice to police information in this case? (not an accusation, but you do seem miffed)

In these cases, that are high profile as you have alluded to earlier, police are highly accountable an exposed to the full gamut of the law.

There isn't a lot of room to be dishonourable in this situation

I trust the QLD Police and the steps you have taken.

If you don't, can you please highlight exactly where things may have gone awry?
 
She is one of the ones that heard screams. Plus she knew Allison , GBC, BF and TM.
 
DrWatson said:
Although that may have been three weeks after the call-out, it was only 10 days after Allison had been found and the case turned into a murder case.

But I agree that the statement should have been prepared earlier. Like later that same morning....
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I would think that they would have been very busy actually looking for her for those first ten days - everyone was on that task - paperwork would have been put on the back burner - and I do not think it is a requirement to write statements for every conversation a cop has.......he would have followed protocol. QPS have a very very good track record of late. Let's not forget the defence laywer will say anything to cast reasonable doubt - look at the sarcasm he has used thus far.....pretty stupid for his client if he thinks being sarcastic about the qualifications people have etc.

I regularly write up notes on discussions I have had with people who cause trouble but sometimes that write up will occur directly after the even and then hours later I will remember somehtng and add that in. I don't think this cop has done anything wrong - the defence teams questioning and commnts tell me that the circumstantial case MUST be pretty strong.
 
kiwijayne said:
She is one of the ones that heard screams. Plus she knew Allison , GBC, BF and TM.
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Goodness me Kiwijayne, another one who heard screams. There just seems to be so many witnesses that heard screams on that night. :what: And from all accounts they were loud screams that woke some of the locals from their sleep. Not so GBC apparently. He went to bed at 10:00pm and slept soundly until about 6:15am the next morning. :twocents:
 
lycheefarmer said:
Similarities to the Chamberlain case I have noticed

1. Very heightened media interest in the story

2. Certain themes/characteristics made the accused "suspicious" - Chamberlains - members of a "cult" (Seventh Day Adventists)- Baden-Clays - Scouting, Christian pastoral connection, hyphenated surname, African history etc

3. The public made very quick & damning assessments about the accused and his relatives based on words uttered under enormous pressure, questionable body language and the "correct" emotions being expressed (or not). Exactly the same thing happened to Lindy Chamberlain who was seen as distant and cold. And who incidentally was "crucified" because of her initial openness to the media. I will never forget the initial interview she did with Today Tonight (or was it 60 Minutes).

4. Police jumped to a very strong and quick conclusion and don't seem to be all that open to any other possibilities.


5. Evidence was largely circumstantial and was very strongly influenced by forensic testing which was later shown to be false!

6. Because of the huge publicity attached to the case it seems that many police and judicial careers depended on the success or otherwise of the case and this seemed to influence their objectivity in the case.

Worth thinking about IMO
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Lycheefarmer. I find these supposed "similarities" to the Chamberlain case quite disturbing. And completely off track. And nothing at like similarities. In fact, No case could be more different.

1. A heightened media interest in the Chamberlain story was because the story SOLD newspapers. Created interest, provided gossip amongst gossip mongerers.
There was also no Internet where the average citizen could add their two cents worth. Or supply knowledge, or openly discuss details, in detail. Had that occurred, the Chamberlain would have gone quite differently.
It was a straight forward dreadful story. No need for embellishments.
And it wasn't the first time an event such as this had happened in Australia.
The media at that time was about SELLING stories, selling newspapers, making money.
This BC case is about JUSTICE. Web sleuthers or posters on crime sites such as this, seeking Justice for one murdered person are not seeking financial benefits. None. On the contrary. They appear to have invested freely of their time thoughts, knowledge and efforts in order to seek the truth. And then seek justice.
Had I been given the opportunity at the time of the Chamberlain case to speak, I would have spoken up. But I thought that someone else who had better knowledge would have done do. Someone older and wiser.
Plus I was young. Plus and most importantly, I had no means of speaking my tiny weeny bit of bush knowledge. No Internet. (Azaria Chamberlain was not the first human baby to have been taken by a dingo, nor will she be the last until arrogance and ignorance is brushed aside.)
Indeed it is BECAUSE of the Chamberlain case that I have decided to speak up. Be silent no more. Have decided that maybe my 2 cents worth might be of some value after all. I have also meanwhile learned, to listen to my heart and follow my true gut instincts. (Best advice I ever took)

2 Your second sentence is plumb silly IMO.

3. Lindy Chamberlain appeared to me totally shell-shocked. Numbed. And as a lot of educated people at that time were required to do, was appear right. Hide the inner feelings. Prepare for this new fangled thing the TV interview. I for one was well schooled (expensive boarding school education) in appearances, being all important. (Remnants of the 60's 70's era.)

4. The Police in the current Queensland case appear to should be applauded. In fact, I feel so proud of them. Number One person Constable Ash.
Also, take note there are lots of people who are very open to other possibilities, especially on truly caring forums. Please read WS past threads

5. Evidence is circumstantial? Might pay you to read the evidences available to date. The person in question in this case appears to be relying totally, not on evidences, but on what may be seen as potentially bungled evidences, or evidences not proven with 100% proven accuracy, or evidences provided by people who can't be proven 100%. Example, dogs must have a fetish with doors, or each and every witness to date is some sort of nit wit. Needs to be proved otherwise by GBC's own lawyers.
Can you guarantee Lycheefarmer that the day before yesterday was fine, with sky 3 octares? Not 2 or 5 but 3 octares.
Bit like the pound of flesh in Shakespeare, huh?

In short Lycheefarmer, I find your comments quite collectively offensive to justice for Allison Baden Clay. Appears that indeed you might be playing the real devils advocate. IMO.
 
LollyPop said:
Or used Allison's phone?
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I was thinking that, but wouldn't forensics be able to tell from her phone calling history? I think it's just the content (sms,' photos, drafts) that are unable to be retrieved without the phone. Can anyone confirm this?
 
10 witnesses on Day 1, 6 witnesses on Day 2 = 16 witnesses heard. 26 further witnesses to be heard over the remaining 4 days allocated. Also the Relationship Australia counsellor matter has to be decided. No wonder an earlier start tomorrow.
 
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