Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #44

[Happygolucky]

According to WS member BrookieLocal, Allison was not wearing her 'walking clothes' when she was at the hairdresser. Reading back on BrookieLocal's posts is very interesting in view of what we now know. :twocents:

BrookieLocal
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 14

Hi everyone, first time poster but had read all previous threads.
My friend works at the Hair Salon in Kenmore Plaza (for non-locals it is not the shopping centre at the roundabout but about 1km down the road), she told me Allison had her hair done on Thursday evening. All the staff were questioned the following morning. They were asked what Allison's demeanor was, what she said, what was she wearing, what time did she leave. My friend said she was happy and relaxed. She was discussing the conference which she was attending the following day. It was with Pathways, she was training to become a Pathways facilitator (works with small groups of children or one-on-one). My friend also mentioned Allison said the girls were at a sleep-over at the in-laws and she had a "night off". I know this conflicts with other info. She was not wearing her walking clothes. I didn't ask her what time Allison left, I presumed it was before 8pm and that's why the police changed the times, perhaps 8pm was the last time someone else besides GB-C saw her.
The staff were also questioned the Tuesday after Allison's body was found, they were asked more specifically about any marks, bruises or scratches she had on her neck, chest, arms and hands.

BBM.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3

Wasn't it a real estate conference that Alison was going to along with another staff member from the Century 21 Office?

 

[CaseClosed]

Wasn't it a real estate conference that Alison was going to along with another staff member from the Century 21 Office?

Yes, it was. The other scenario was hearsay by a verified local, but it ended up being that ABC was going to the R/E conference and not Pathways.

 

[Happygolucky]

With respect I cant buy that , especially if the screams were as described by Dr Flegg and others:moo:

I can't buy it either. I would imagine someone from the Dickie side of the family or perhaps a counseller would have gently asked this question of the girls.

 

[LadyBird1]

If I remember correctly, the afternoon that GBC was arrested, almost simultaneously the girls were removed from the school by Court order (Family Court) and taken to a special children's unit of the Police, while they waited for the Dickies to come up from the Gold Coast and pick the girls up to take temporary care of them until their care was decided by the Family Court later. I seriously doubt the girls were interviewed at that point in time ... you can't just interview minors without following certain procedures.

Also, young children who are growing up in homes were there is domestic violence or a lot of arguing as a regular way of life, are terrified of the abuser and would hide under their pillows rather than coming out of their bedrooms to try and stop the parents fight. I watched a true criminal case on TV, where a young little boy saw through his ajar bedroom door, the father carrying a big sports bag, dragging it down the stairs and putting it in the boot. The boy later described this in a drawing with psychologist, indicating that he knew the bag contained his mother's body. Even knowing this at the time it was happening, he did not leave his room nor did he do anything to stop the father or call for help or anything. He was about 6-7 at the time.

IMO if the girls were home that night, and they did hear fighting, they would have stayed in their room terrified. Have they told the Dickies what they know, if they witness/heard something? I believe they probably would have and it might be in a statement that we are not aware of.

All my opinion.

Until today I held your belief that the girls were at home. Because until today I, (stupidly) believed that GBC's texts were indicating that none of the girls are up yet, TOTALLY forgetting ALL that comes forth from that mouth or phone or email or whatever, might be nothing more that pure baloney. Lies.

One of the girls contradicted the early morning police visit, with something little like, "no we weren't here", or words to that effect. Children were whisked away super pronto.

All that you say regarding the girls being home hearing all and being terrified could be perfectly true, (in fact I, only today here alluded to an exact same case brought up on Aussie Crims in about June.)

Been an interesting day here today. As another has said, I think we GOT somewhere today.

 

[they'll get you]

I can't buy it either. I would imagine someone from the Dickie side of the family or perhaps a counseller would have gently asked this question of the girls.

At the right time or when the children needed love and support I'm sure they would open up to nan & pop, the sadness would have been shared & I'm sure they all needed each other's love.
I think GBC had been dreaming of a fairy tale life which became overwhelmingly real and thinking it through over and over it all became an easy way of gaining the dream & Allison as in the way.

Dickies would not be at that court looking for justice for their daughter for nothing. THEY KNOW!

The BC's were not there for the opposite reason. THEY KNOW!

Both sides know how it happened. Their actions speak volumes to me!

<modsnip>
:moo: :moo: :moo:

 

[Happygolucky]

Good point. And yes Olivia supporting Allison right up to that time. Or at least Allison has hitherto seen Olivia as a support person.
I believe that Allison had no reason NOT to to trust her sister in law up to that time.
Then when OW arrived, things got out of hand or already were out of hand. Olivia arrived to find there was more than a domestic to clean up after. Or her brother was WAY out of control.
Blood curdling screams were heard 10.53pm.
After which she decided to take her brother's stand. And stick up for him come hell or high water.
This is nothing but pure speculation IMO.

I am not sure how much credence we can give to the blood curdling screams by Bruce Flegg. In reality, if you check google maps, his house is much further than the 1km quoted in court. I was in court on the first Monday when a number of people verified to various noises/screams on the night and there were differing stories. I have just referred to the notes I made that day. Mrs Braun heard dogs baking from 514 Brookfield Road. Sometime after 11.30 pm she hear a "loud human noise" "out the front in the area of BC resience". She described it as a "very unpleasant sound" and unable to tell whether it was from a male or femal. Nevertheless she went back to sleep and awoken a second time some time later. She did not get up to investigate. Mrs Whittle went to bed between 9 and 9.30 and was woken by dogs barking sometime between going to be and 4 am.. The lady who lived opposite the BCs

Jule Anne S was very specific to the time she heard noises as it occured shortly after her husband got home at 8pm She put the noises she heard to between 8 pm and 9 pm "a short sharp, loud noise that lasted 1 1/2 seconds'. Again she was unsure whether the noise was male or female. Her husband placed the time about 9pm and he described the noise as a "startled or shocked yell out" and it was "no more than a couple of words". He was however convinced it was a female voice.

None of the accounts given the first Monday in court match the "blood curding screams heard by Bruce Flegg" except perhaps another witness, Fioina White was very non specific. Basically it amounted to the fact she heard a scream sometime that week, unsure of the day or time. She did however, describe 2 high pitched screams. It was worth noting that none of the witnesssed cross examined that day actually got up and went to investigate. I think what Bruce Flegg heard may well be something different. If he heard blood curdling screams from probably close to 2 kms away as the crow flies and actually went outside to investigate, surely the screams would have been more piercing and immediate to the close neighbours? And one would have imagined that potentially dozens or hundreds of people living within a similar distance would have heard the same blood curdling screams that travelled quite a distance. Unless of course, the screams that Flegg heard were from someone different much closer to home.

 

[LadyBird1]

If I remember correctly, the afternoon that GBC was arrested, almost simultaneously the girls were removed from the school by Court order (Family Court) and taken to a special children's unit of the Police, while they waited for the Dickies to come up from the Gold Coast and pick the girls up to take temporary care of them until their care was decided by the Family Court later. I seriously doubt the girls were interviewed at that point in time ... you can't just interview minors without following certain procedures.

Also, young children who are growing up in homes were there is domestic violence or a lot of arguing as a regular way of life, are terrified of the abuser and would hide under their pillows rather than coming out of their bedrooms to try and stop the parents fight. I watched a true criminal case on TV, where a young little boy saw through his ajar bedroom door, the father carrying a big sports bag, dragging it down the stairs and putting it in the boot. The boy later described this in a drawing with psychologist, indicating that he knew the bag contained his mother's body. Even knowing this at the time it was happening, he did not leave his room nor did he do anything to stop the father or call for help or anything. He was about 6-7 at the time.

IMO if the girls were home that night, and they did hear fighting, they would have stayed in their room terrified. Have they told the Dickies what they know, if they witness/heard something? I believe they probably would have and it might be in a statement that we are not aware of.

All my opinion.

Until today I held your belief that the girls were at home. Because until today I, (stupidly) believed that GBC's texts were indicating that none of the girls are up yet, TOTALLY forgetting ALL that comes forth from that mouth or phone or email or whatever, might be nothing more that pure baloney.

One of the girls contradicted the early morning police visit, with something little like, "no we weren't here", or words to that effect. Children were whisked away super pronto.

All that you say regarding the girls being home hearing all and being terrified could be perfectly true, (in fact I, only today here alluded to an exact same case brought up on Aussie Crims in about June.)

Been an interesting day here today. As another has said, I think we GOT somewhere today.

 

[marlywings]

Some of you are getting too far off the old fact track.

From here on in...if you make a statement as a fact, you're going to have to supply a MSM link or if it's info from any of the statements, you'll need to quote it along with the name of the doc which it came from.

If you can't do the above then you can't post it.

As for the girls being home that night...there is nothing in MSM which tells us either way where they were. Some have turned nothing more than a rumour into fact, in the space of a page or so.

 

[CaseClosed]

Until today I held your belief that the girls ere at home. Because until today I, (stupidly) believed that GBC's texts were indicating that none of the girls are up yet, TOTALLY forgetting ALL that comes forth from that mouth or phone or email or whatever, might be nothing more that pure baloney.

One of the girls contradicted the early morning police visit, with something little like, "no we weren't here", or words to that effect. Children were whisked away super pronto.

All that you say regarding the girls being home hearing all and being terrified could be perfectly true, (in fact I, only today here alluded to an exact same case brought up on Aussie Crims in about June.)

Been an interesting day here today. As another has said, I think we GOT somewhere today.

I don't really know if the girls were home. From reading TM's statement about GBC dropping off food for the girls at Nigelaine's, I thought they were actually staying there with their cousins from Townsville, but I don't really know what the real story is. I thought the sentence "no, we weren't here" is also hearsay?

 

[spratsmum]

I may be wrong, but I have the impression that in court last week witness statements were presented and people came forward to verify there own statements. Nothing seems to have been mentioned in court last week regarding the events leading up to Allison's murder any information regarding the whereabouts of other key figures. Therefore I think that police very well may have information that the girls where not at home on the 19th but the prosecution has not yet used this evidence in court and may form part of what the jury and judge will hear during the trial.

 

[CaseClosed]

I may be wrong, but I have the impression that in court last week witness statements were presented and people came forward to verify there own statements. Nothing seems to have been mentioned in court last week regarding the events leading up to Allison's murder any information regarding the whereabouts of other key figures. Therefore I think that police very well may have information that the girls where not at home on the 19th but the prosecution has not yet used this evidence in court and may form part of what the jury and judge will hear during the trial.

At the Committal, it was the Defence team that had the choice of which statements/witnesses they would test. The Prosecution did not make that choice, and there are another 200 plus witness statements that we do not know about yet. It will be very interesting when all this additional information is presented at the trial.

 

[LadyBird1]

I am not sure how much credence we can give to the blood curdling screams by Bruce Flegg. In reality, if you check google maps, his house is much further than the 1km quoted in court. I was in court on the first Monday when a number of people verified to various noises/screams on the night and there were differing stories. I have just referred to the notes I made that day. Mrs Braun heard dogs baking from 514 Brookfield Road. Sometime after 11.30 pm she hear a "loud human noise" "out the front in the area of BC resience". She described it as a "very unpleasant sound" and unable to tell whether it was from a male or femal. Nevertheless she went back to sleep and awoken a second time some time later. She did not get up to investigate. Mrs Whittle went to bed between 9 and 9.30 and was woken by dogs barking sometime between going to be and 4 am.. The lady who lived opposite the BCs

Jule Anne S was very specific to the time she heard noises as it occured shortly after her husband got home at 8pm She put the noises she heard to between 8 pm and 9 pm "a short sharp, loud noise that lasted 1 1/2 seconds'. Again she was unsure whether the noise was male or female. Her husband placed the time about 9pm and he described the noise as a "startled or shocked yell out" and it was "no more than a couple of words". He was however convinced it was a female voice.

None of the accounts given the first Monday in court match the "blood curding screams heard by Bruce Flegg" except perhaps another witness, Fioina White was very non specific. Basically it amounted to the fact she heard a scream sometime that week, unsure of the day or time. She did however, describe 2 high pitched screams. It was worth noting that none of the witnesssed cross examined that day actually got up and went to investigate. I think what Bruce Flegg heard may well be something different. If he heard blood curdling screams from probably close to 2 kms away as the crow flies and actually went outside to investigate, surely the screams would have been more piercing and immediate to the close neighbours? And one would have imagined that potentially dozens or hundreds of people living within a similar distance would have heard the same blood curdling screams that travelled quite a distance. Unless of course, the screams that Flegg heard were from someone different much closer to home.

There were more than one lot of loud unnatural noises that night.

10.00pm Loud argument heard by GBC neighbours.

10.00pm A woman&#8217;s muffled screams were heard by Will Truter and his neighbours (4km from GBC home)

Then later:

10.53pm Screams heard by Bruce Flegg (Dr Flegg&#8217;s home 1km from BC home.)

It was after this time Sasha the German shepherd dog set off howling.

If you don't believe how sound travels so well at night, then right now 9.24pm at night, switch off all household noises like TV and go outside. Shhh for at least two whole minutes..
Now listen very quietly........ Amazing huh?

 

[Happygolucky]

Some of you are getting too far off the old fact track.

From here on in...if you make a statement as a fact, you're going to have to supply a MSM link or if it's info from any of the statements, you'll need to quote it along with the name of the doc which it came from.

If you can't do the above then you can't post it.

As for the girls being home that night...there is nothing in MSM which tells us either way where they were. Some have turned nothing more than a rumour into fact, in the space of a page or so.

Just checking Marley, are we breaking any rules quoting from handwritten notes we made at the committal hearing?

 

[Elspeth]

I am not sure how much credence we can give to the blood curdling screams by Bruce Flegg. In reality, if you check google maps, his house is much further than the 1km quoted in court. I was in court on the first Monday when a number of people verified to various noises/screams on the night and there were differing stories. I have just referred to the notes I made that day. Mrs Braun heard dogs baking from 514 Brookfield Road. Sometime after 11.30 pm she hear a "loud human noise" "out the front in the area of BC resience". She described it as a "very unpleasant sound" and unable to tell whether it was from a male or femal. Nevertheless she went back to sleep and awoken a second time some time later. She did not get up to investigate. Mrs Whittle went to bed between 9 and 9.30 and was woken by dogs barking sometime between going to be and 4 am.. The lady who lived opposite the BCs

Jule Anne S was very specific to the time she heard noises as it occured shortly after her husband got home at 8pm She put the noises she heard to between 8 pm and 9 pm "a short sharp, loud noise that lasted 1 1/2 seconds'. Again she was unsure whether the noise was male or female. Her husband placed the time about 9pm and he described the noise as a "startled or shocked yell out" and it was "no more than a couple of words". He was however convinced it was a female voice.

None of the accounts given the first Monday in court match the "blood curding screams heard by Bruce Flegg" except perhaps another witness, Fioina White was very non specific. Basically it amounted to the fact she heard a scream sometime that week, unsure of the day or time. She did however, describe 2 high pitched screams. It was worth noting that none of the witnesssed cross examined that day actually got up and went to investigate. I think what Bruce Flegg heard may well be something different. If he heard blood curdling screams from probably close to 2 kms away as the crow flies and actually went outside to investigate, surely the screams would have been more piercing and immediate to the close neighbours? And one would have imagined that potentially dozens or hundreds of people living within a similar distance would have heard the same blood curdling screams that travelled quite a distance. Unless of course, the screams that Flegg heard were from someone different much closer to home.

Unsure if this is accurate but I seem to recall that some screams were thought to have also come from teenagers larking about in the area at that time. Does anyone else recall this ?

 

[maxi318]

Hi Maxi, I had written a little note at the top explaining that number.
Yes I do believe that is Gerard's number billed under Century 21.

The note at the top refers to a different number. The number 0429377160 was initially marked as unknown, but later you marked it as Gerards. Sorry, not trying to take away from what you did, just clarifying. Great job though!

 

[marlywings]

Just checking Marley, are we breaking any rules quoting from handwritten notes we made at the committal hearing?

Happy...I'll give the ok for now but this may change after I check with admin.

 

[Minor Key]

Hi everyone,
Sorry to butt in but I am just popping in to say hi.
I've been here reading from day dot but have only just joined today.
I am a local and I suppose like any local I have had my own experiences/close encounters to share. I look forward to contributing to discussion if I get some more courage. ( I've never done anything like this before due to being quite shy ). It has been great to read all the posts - many thanks.

 

[Zim]

Hi everyone,
Sorry to butt in but I am just popping in to say hi.
I've been here reading from day dot but have only just joined today.
I am a local and I suppose like any local I have had my own experiences/close encounters to share. I look forward to contributing to discussion if I get some more courage. ( I've never done anything like this before due to being quite shy ). It has been great to read all the posts - many thanks.

Welcome to the group Minor Key.
Looking forward to your input !

:fireworks::thewave::fireworks:

 

[LadyBird1]

Unsure if this is accurate but I seem to recall that some screams were thought to have also come from teenagers larking about in the area at that time. Does anyone else recall this ?

That was never positively unequivocally confirmed as the source of the screams. Good pacifier though.

 

[Chief of Funtime]

I've been thinking about Allison's missing phone. It would be very interesting to know the calls TO her phone and if someone tried to call her early on the 20th Like around 6.am the phone is on the bench . Gbc s dilemma is wether or not to answer it . If he does he has tell whoever that she has gone for a walk .they keep trying to call her and he realizes that he has to act quickly and get rid of the phone and has to report her missing much earlier than he intended ?? Thank you curious for your time and effort . Excellent work