Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[Perodicticus potto]

For Sollecito, keep in mind that he is also a dishonest man that was monitored for an abnormal interest in bestiality in high school ...

That is not evidence of murder.

 

[otto]

"Riello said the appeals judges in Perugia had used illogical and inappropriate reasoning to arrive at the acquittals, assuming contamination happened when it was convenient for Knox and Sollecito, yet defending the forensics when it implicated Rudy Guede.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Amanda-Knox-4382179.php#ixzz2OgJBt7FJ

 

[Nova]

I really do not understand this one bit. It is so obvious that she and her boyfriend had nothing to do with the murder. It doesn't even make one bit of sense that they would have had anything to do with it. To believe this theory, one would have to assume that Amanda and a guy she had known for one week teamed up with a vagrant they had never met and decided to rape and kill a woman neither of them barely knew. While

Amand and Meredith were roommates for a while, it does not appear they were very close friends, but rather acquaintances who shared a home for the purpose of going to school.

I guess when you throw in the accusations of withcraft and devil worship you can believe it then.

But any discrepancies that may arise from this case are a clear indication of a multitude of issues-police bungling, rush to judgement, allowing a convicted vagrant to testify against them for a reduced sentencek, long and harsh questioning from an Italian police force against a woman who didn't speak Italian well, had no interpreter and had no lawyer. I would imagine she was confused and scared and they fed her a lot of information and coerced her into saying-such as her boss was there.

I admit I haven't followed the case as closely as some have, but the fact of the matter is that there is a TON of evidence against the man already in prison and very slight circumstantial and questionable evidence against Knox and Sollecito.

I feel bad for Sollecito the most. It seems his only crime was to get involved with a cute American girl and maybe smoke a little weed.

If Italy has any intentions of trying to extradite Amanda, they are going to have to come up with some compelling reasons to give to the US as to why, after the outlandish and ridiculous prosecution (and in my opinion persecution) of this girl.

Maybe you didn't study the case closely, but you certainly summed it up quite well!

 

[Nova]

The double jeopardy clause of the Fifth Amendment dictates a criminal defendant can't be tried twice for the same crime. The US would actually be violating her civil rights to turn her over.

That's a very interesting appellate issue. I have to call my friend who defends appeals and ask her about it...

ETA My friend says it will be an interesting academic problem and by no means clear cut. (Disclaimer: she does juvenile criminal appeals and has never argued before the U.S. or Italian supreme courts.)

On the one hand, she says the U.S. constitutional issue of "double jeopardy" usually attaches to the original jury verdict, not to appeals. Even in the U.S., States can appeal rulings by appellate courts without violating the double jeopardy provision. (I didn't think to ask her what would happen if the defendant had waived his right to a jury; I suspect the judge would then sit in for the jury and the same principle would apply.)

On the other hand, there are arguments to be made that an Italian appeal is more like a second trial than a U.S. appeal (which only addresses issues of procedural error).

She thinks Knox probably won't attend the new trial because doing so confers "legitimacy" on it.

If Knox is convicted a second time, my friend thinks both sides will have a field day with the extradition proceedings, which will deal with issues of Italian law, U.S. law AND the treaties signed between the two countries.

(Personally, I've felt a little ill since I heard the news. I have to keep reminding myself that I don't know these people.)

 

[Nova]

I dont think it had anything to do with witchcraft or satanism or anything ridiculous like that, but I do think Amanda and Raffaele are guilty as hell and have left the lone black guy to take the fall.

Amanda has ridden this whole poor me, innocent American abroad shtick to fame and a book deal, as well as to garnering an adoring, gullible American public that loves to see the rest of the world as inferior to the US, and eats up the story of the naive American girl done badly by Europe.

A poster brought up Jodi above, and I agree. Amanda is far worse. Jodi at least has the excuse of losing it after her guy treated her like a sex object to be used and discarded like a *advertiser censored* once he decided she wasn't good enough to marry. Amanda, not so much.

I hope she and R are found guilty again and extradited ASAP.

Maybe we all need to take a step back from Nancy Grace and her crowd.

There is no evidence that Amanda Knox ever stabbed Meredith Kercher, even if you do think Knox was somehow involved.

Arias admits she stabbed TA 28 times, slit his throat and shot him. (Even at her most foolish, Knox only admitted to being in the next room.)

I don't think the U.S. is superior to other countries. I think the U.S. and Italy are too much alike and often we convict the innocent while letting the guilty go free.

 

[Nova]

"Riello said the appeals judges in Perugia had used illogical and inappropriate reasoning to arrive at the acquittals, assuming contamination happened when it was convenient for Knox and Sollecito, yet defending the forensics when it implicated Rudy Guede.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Amanda-Knox-4382179.php#ixzz2OgJBt7FJ

I assume contamination happens anytime an artifact is passed around by a dozen people and then laid back down on the floor. It doesn't matter whom is implicated.

 

[ChelleBelle]

That's a very interesting appellate issue. I have to call my friend who defends appeals and ask her about it...

ETA My friend says it will be an interesting academic problem and by no means clear cut. (Disclaimer: she does juvenile criminal appeals and has never argued before the U.S. or Italian supreme courts.)

On the one hand, she says the U.S. constitutional issue of "double jeopardy" usually attaches to the original jury verdict, not to appeals. Even in the U.S., States can appeal rulings by appellate courts without violating the double jeopardy provision. (I didn't think to ask her what would happen if the defendant had waived his right to a jury; I suspect the judge would then sit in for the jury and the same principle would apply.)

On the other hand, there are arguments to be made that an Italian appeal is more like a second trial than a U.S. appeal (which only addresses issues of procedural error).

She thinks Knox probably won't attend the new trial because doing so confers "legitimacy" on it.

If Knox is convicted a second time, my friend thinks both sides will have a field day with the extradition proceedings, which will deal with issues of Italian law, U.S. law AND the treaties signed between the two countries.

(Personally, I've felt a little ill since I heard the news. I have to keep reminding myself that I don't know these people.)

Great info, thanks for that!

 

[ferretnurse]

Okay, I was just discussing this with my mother, and I haven't found a definitive source yet, so it's just a theory. She said that Amanda may get re-tried without her being present, and found guilty. She said Amanda will never be extradited, but a guilty verdict will make sure she isn't able to receive money from the Italian courts for her extended time in prison. Kinda like innocent people suing the US after they are exonerated. If anyone knows Italian law, feel free to help.

 

[otto]

" Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz said that Italian prosecutors might very well extradite Knox. And, if retried, she "likely will be found guilty -- because the evidence supporting a conviction is pretty strong."

...

He predicted that Knox would resist any extradition attempt. But even if she were to succeed in that, "she remains a prisoner in the United States, because Interpol will put a warrant out for her and, if she travels anywhere outside the United States, she'll be immediately arrested and turned over to Italy."

If Knox were to lose an extradition fight and then wind up being convicted, she would go to jail, he said.

...

If he were advising Kercher's parents, Dershowitz said, he would recommend that they file a civil suit to claim the money Knox has received as an advance for a book about the case that is scheduled for publication next month.

"They have a right to sue her on behalf of their dead daughter," he said, noting that the standard required for conviction in civil cases is a preponderance of the evidence. "I think that would be easy to do."

And the extradition treaty's reference to double jeopardy may not be binding in some cases, he said. "In the United States, generally, when you appeal a conviction, you waive your double jeopardy rights, and we permit retrials of people who have had their convictions reversed, at least on procedural grounds," he said."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/26/justice/knox-extradition/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

 

[TheDuchess]

I'd love to hear more about what Amandas friends, neighbors, schoolmates, etc have to say about her? It appears as though she had never been in trouble with the law before. Was she kind? Was she strange? Was she known to do strange things? She actually sounds like quite an ordinary girl to me. Not "Foxy Knoxy"'as some like to say. I mean, she was a foreign exchange student studying abroad. She mist have been fairly bright and studious to earn that honor. And it would seem to me she had a lot going on in her life to deal with including going to school, working and having a new boyfriend. Yet out of nowhere, she decides to partake in the rape and murder of her roommate??? It doesn't add up. People don't usually go from normal to outrageously evil in one day!

 

[otto]

Jumping off your post, Kaylynn.....


I heard that even if they convict her again the U.S. can choose not to extradite her to Italy. Sooooo, what's the point in trying her again? Or, do you think we would send her back???

Isn't the point of repeating the appeal stage of the trial to ensure that there is justice?

Since the appeal process is being repeated, the result could be that the appeal is denied. An arrest warrant will then be issued for Knox. If she is not extradicted, then Interpol will wait for her to leave US soil.

 

[otto]

I'd love to hear more about what Amandas friends, neighbors, schoolmates, etc have to say about her? It appears as though she had never been in trouble with the law before. Was she kind? Was she strange? Was she known to do strange things? She actually sounds like quite an ordinary girl to me. Not "Foxy Knoxy"'as some like to say. I mean, she was a foreign exchange student studying abroad. She mist have been fairly bright and studious to earn that honor. And it would seem to me she had a lot going on in her life to deal with including going to school, working and having a new boyfriend. Yet out of nowhere, she decides to partake in the rape and murder of her roommate??? It doesn't add up. People don't usually go from normal to outrageously evil in one day!

She had been in trouble with the law before.

She's like Jodi Arias. Knox flipped cartwheels at the police station and Arias did head stands. Knox tried to blame others. Arias tried to blame others. Knox had amnesia at the time of the murder. Arias had amnesia at the time of the murder. Arias lied. Knox lied. I don't think that either Arias or Knox are ordinary women (they're not really girls anymore).

Arias appears to have gone from normal to evil one day. That does not seem to be a factor in guilt.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

I'd love to hear more about what Amandas friends, neighbors, schoolmates, etc have to say about her? It appears as though she had never been in trouble with the law before. Was she kind? Was she strange? Was she known to do strange things? She actually sounds like quite an ordinary girl to me. Not "Foxy Knoxy"'as some like to say. I mean, she was a foreign exchange student studying abroad. She mist have been fairly bright and studious to earn that honor. And it would seem to me she had a lot going on in her life to deal with including going to school, working and having a new boyfriend. Yet out of nowhere, she decides to partake in the rape and murder of her roommate??? It doesn't add up. People don't usually go from normal to outrageously evil in one day!

She was (and is) very studious and kind. Her downfall, personality-wise, was that she was too trusting of the Italian authorities. She does do some strange things, as in being uninhibited, but not much moreso than any young person of 22. She liked attention too, which made her actions at the time seem out of the ordinary. There is much more to this story than just Amanda's personality though. As is common in unjust convictions, the prosecutor's personality and reputation are as equally important. Add to that some remarkably sloppy forensic work and various characters looking for fame and you get the big fat mess that this case is.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I find this terribly disturbing. I HOPE THE US doesn't send her back to Italy. I think this stinks highly of bs. Imoo

 

[Frankie Hellis]

She had been in trouble with the law before.

She's like Jodi Arias. Knox flipped cartwheels at the police station and Arias did head stands. Knox tried to blame others. Arias tried to blame others. Knox had amnesia at the time of the murder. Arias had amnesia at the time of the murder. Arias lied. Knox lied. I don't think that either Arias or Knox are ordinary women (they're not really girls anymore).

Arias appears to have gone from normal to evil one day. That does not seem to be a factor in guilt.

Amanda Knox is nothing like Jodi Arias. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. Arias stalked men. Arias claims to be a victim of domestic violence. Arias admittedly killed her boyfriend. There is no parallel whatsoever.

"She had been in trouble with the law before."
Yeah, right. She had a noise violation from a party. Give.me.a.break.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Isn't the point of repeating the appeal stage of the trial to ensure that there is justice?

Since the appeal process is being repeated, the result could be that the appeal is denied. An arrest warrant will then be issued for Knox. If she is not extradicted, then Interpol will wait for her to leave US soil.

She won't be extradicted. That would violate her 5th amendment right, so the U.S. won't do it. Interpol will just have to wait.

 

[otto]

"Miss Kercher's sister Stephanie said the decision was "a step forward" to ensuring "the right people were convicted"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21938674

 

[otto]

She won't be extradicted. That would violate her 5th amendment right, so the U.S. won't do it. Interpol will just have to wait.

We will have to wait and see. First, the appeals process has to be repeated.

 

[Malkmus]

IIRC, he has a hammer toe and the print was the same size and had a hammer toe.

Snipped, because I don't have enough time to respond to all the things I'd like to right now.

It was actually the exact opposite of what you're saying. Raf's hammer toe does not leave a print because it is raised. The bathmat print made in diluted blood water has a normal second toe which, although hard to see in this pic, is actually there.

Raf's foot is on the left, Rudy's on the right. You can also see that Raf's big toe is mushroom-shaped unlike the bathmat print.

All I'm going to say right now is that I think she was involved in this murder. It was a few years ago, but I remember all of my research made it clear, to me, that she was involved, at least, in the cleanup of the crime scene.

The main problem with the theories supporting Amanda's guilt is the lack of any sort of narrative of what happened that night that encompasses all of the prosecution's evidence against her. Beyond saying "I think she had something to do with it", people are unable to say why and how. As long as the spotlight is on Amanda and Rafaelle, Rudy has no reason to come forward with the truth of what happened that night. It seems that even he is unable to give a any sort of explanation of how they were involved. However, a scenario in which just he was involved makes total sense.

That was WRONG for Amanda to accuse an INNOCENT MAN of the murder -- she knew Mr. Lumumba was at his business that night because SHE was supposed to go to work -- but Patrick told Amanda NOT to come in to work that night ...

The police also knew this because they saw her text back to him saying "have a good night". The police later found a witness who stated his bar was closed that night even though it wasn't.

The general conscensus, prior to today's decision, was that the appeal would be upheld and the culprits could carry on selling books ... millions of dollars worth of book deals giving details about Meredith Kercher's murder trial.

I think we all know how controversy sells, so I would expect this to help book sales. I understand that to people who think she's guilty this is wrong, but I hope they can also understand that people who think she's innocent think she deserves whatever money she gets from the sales.

 

[redheadedgal]

seems otto only posted one side of the article he linked above...

and he failed to mention the title: experts disagree over extradition for amanda knox


A U.S. court or the State Department would be unlikely to take up any extradition request from Italy, said Sean Casey, a former prosecutor who is now a partner at Kobre & Kim in New York.

He cited an extradition treaty between the United States and Italy that states: "Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for which extradition is requested."

"Under U.S. law, she was once put in jeopardy and later acquitted," Casey said. "Under the treaty, extradition should not be granted."