SIDEBAR #7- Arias/Alexander forum

[lisasalinger]

Hope everyone had a nice long weekend break.

Not a holiday here in Canada but took full advantage of the weekend and did some planting, had a bonfire and big family BBQ. Guess we were so busy for the last 3 days that our main TV in the family room hasn't been on since Thur or Fri. Just turned it on this morning and it was still on HLN from last week LOL. Amazed me to see HLN already knee deep in the Zimmerman trial. Got me thinking that working in that line of work would be exhausting, jump from one trial to another, no breaks. I would be emotionally and physically drained.

Feels a little weird to be JA free, wish we had better closure. One thing I can say, we are DAMN lucky to have gotten a M1 conviction, that's for sure. Some of those jury members scare me with their beliefs about this case. Glad the worst is over.

I think I'm gonna skip the Zimmerman one and just wait for JA to finish and for Andrea Schneiderman.

I love being able to pick and choose which trial to watch... I could never do that work full time, I agree it would be emotionally exhausting.

I am also waiting for the Sneiderman trial and told myself I would not watch any Zimmerman coverage and sure enough, found myself watching the hearing this morning while getting ready for work. Ugh. I need an intervention

 

[Tipstaff]

What would be interesting is to read some of the texts that were before and after this angry text that Travis sent. We know she texted him afterwards but what happened to them. Were they deleted? If so why was this particular one preserved when she supposedly "lost" it.

W

It was preserved because it benefited her! Isn't this how ALV got all her information from JA and it all was to the benefit of JA. :banghead:

 

[TartLemon]

Early in Jodi's testimony, she said the checks written to Travis were loans FROM HER TO HIM. Nurmi got that lie out of the way in a hurry didn't he?

 

[Tipstaff]

I could just murder a bacon buddy.

Description of bacon buddy - please?

 

[Angelina Frost]

IMO, all of us carry around a pretty big store of stereotypes and biases and assumptions, aware of them or not. I followed the Casey Anthony trial-my first- because initially I very much wanted to believe Caylee's death had to be accidental. I just couldn't wrap my brain around how it was she could murder her own precious child for literally no reason.

It took me over a month of reading all the evidence and plenty of articles on narcissism and sociopaths to even begin to get it

At the risk of having rotten fruit thrown my way, I'll play devils advocate for a bit (perspective below is not my own).

I can understand how a juror who hasn't ever dug deep into another murder trial or case and who has never had to deal with a BPD person or the like, could have had difficulty understanding how a young woman commit such a savage murder. Enough evidence was excluded for a reasonable person to believe that the killer had lived an ordinary enough life up to the time she met Travis.

Yes she dropped out of school and hit her mother and didn't have much ambition and was extremely nosey and didn't like it when her boyfriends cheated on her. How many thousands of young women like that must there be, though.

It wasn't until she got involved with Travis that she truly went off the rails. That's just a fact.

Equipped with one set of biases, she was normal enough till then. He yanked her chains by saying he didn't want a relationship, but telling her I love you and wanting to have sex. He said awful things to her. He said to friends that she was stalking him and that he was afraid of her, but he kept calling. Whether he knew she was coming or not on June 4, he had sex with her that day instead of calling the police.

He was conflicted. Being conflicted could make him feel angry with himself and angry with her, and cause him to push and pull her.

If she has BPD, maybe that push and pull ultimately pushed her over the ledge. Doesn't make it his fault, but allows for the reality that the events leading up to the murder itself involved two people, not just the killer.

:goodpost: Screencapped for serious genius in this post.

Thank you so much for presenting a devil's advocate position- tough read, but I totally agree with everything you said here. With what was kept out, it's easy to see how someone could come up with this scenario.

Now I'm really depressed. Feels like someone told me (again) there is no Santa, no Tooth Fairy, no Great Pumpkin... :sigh:

 

[Tipstaff]

IMO, all of us carry around a pretty big store of stereotypes and biases and assumptions, aware of them or not. I followed the Casey Anthony trial-my first- because initially I very much wanted to believe Caylee's death had to be accidental. I just couldn't wrap my brain around how it was she could murder her own precious child for literally no reason.

It took me over a month of reading all the evidence and plenty of articles on narcissism and sociopaths to even begin to get it

At the risk of having rotten fruit thrown my way, I'll play devils advocate for a bit (perspective below is not my own).

I can understand how a juror who hasn't ever dug deep into another murder trial or case and who has never had to deal with a BPD person or the like, could have had difficulty understanding how a young woman commit such a savage murder. Enough evidence was excluded for a reasonable person to believe that the killer had lived an ordinary enough life up to the time she met Travis.

Yes she dropped out of school and hit her mother and didn't have much ambition and was extremely nosey and didn't like it when her boyfriends cheated on her. How many thousands of young women like that must there be, though.

It wasn't until she got involved with Travis that she truly went off the rails. That's just a fact.

Equipped with one set of biases, she was normal enough till then. He yanked her chains by saying he didn't want a relationship, but telling her I love you and wanting to have sex. He said awful things to her. He said to friends that she was stalking him and that he was afraid of her, but he kept calling. Whether he knew she was coming or not on June 4, he had sex with her that day instead of calling the police.

He was conflicted. Being conflicted could make him feel angry with himself and angry with her, and cause him to push and pull her.

If she has BPD, maybe that push and pull ultimately pushed her over the ledge. Doesn't make it his fault, but allows for the reality that the events leading up to the murder itself involved two people, not just the killer.

Hope - interesting post however one of the things I believe Dr. Horn testified to was that he could not prove that TA had sex prior to his death due to the decomposition.

I wonder if this possibly be another JA lie to paint TA again with her story her lies. I do wish Dr. Horn could have been definitive on this.

 

[rob]

One of the many things that have bothered me is where did she get the money she deposited in her back on June 3rd? It was about $800 if I recall.
There was a guy on one of the shows that claimed that he lent JA money for the trip and she paid him back. Some guy she met at a bar. If that is true then my guess is the money had to go into the back to prevent her being overdrawn and if that is the case then how would she be able to pay back the money she borrowed. She barely worked and there is no indication that she got the money from working. One of the things I wonder about is if Travis had a lot of cash on him for some reason and after JA murdered him she went through his wallet and took it. It isn't a stretch to assume that JA would have done that and who would know? And I also think that there was a financial part of her premeditation in that she owed him a lot of money and was giving him a check for $200. $200 that she probably didn't have. She asked about the check being cashed when she was being questioned so it was on her mind. Not the primary motive for her but an added benefit.

I read on another site, and I can't find it now, so I probably shouldn't repeat it, BUT one of the roommates stated that they had given Travis their monthly rent, in cash, but the house payment had never been made. Whether that is true or not, I can definitely see Jodi taking what ever money Travis had in his wallet, and feeling justified doing it. After all, look what this trip cost her. And he made her do it.

 

[josie1986]

*cough* *drums fingers* *wonders what the AWOL excuse is* Anything you'd like to tell us Miss Josie?

nothing exciting :sigh: decided to have a spring clean and venture out in the ever rare sunny days.

 

[kscornfed]

2nd BBM
Maryann, I was under the impression that Sky and Chris Hughes were listed as defense witnesses. So is my understanding that Juan couldn't call them to the stand as a witness for the state incorrect? TIA

i think JM could have called them. if this weren't the case, the DT could put all the state's witnesses on their own list and the state couldn't call them!

JM didn't call them for a reason. i just have no idea what that could be, because those letters just BEGGED for an explanation, which the jury never got.

 

[Meemaw12]

During July 15/16th Interrogation Jodi ask about her fiances/bank account, like what would happen to them. Det Flores tells her and she remarks she wants someone far away to handle them.

I wondered who she meant, DB most likely. Then I wondered what finances did she have. I thought she was pretty well broke. Guess not.

Things that make me go hmmmm...

Alll IMO....

 

[dog.gone.cute]

:seeya:

It's obvious that the jury foreman and 3 other jurors did NOT pay attention to what Juan said during Closing Argument in the Penalty Phase ...

There were some things I remember him saying -- but could not remember exactly what it was that was "bugging me" ... so I re-listened.

Juan clearly instructs the jury that they are NOT private investigators or advocates when they go into deliberations ...

Another thing he said was they were told about the eligibility for parole after 25 years when they filled out the juror questionnaire ...

Now I understand that this 25 year may be an "issue" -- but just pointing out that Juan stated it was in the juror questionnaire that was filled out back in December 2012.


I tried to transcribe what Juan said ... not a transcriptionist, not a lawyer and not a chemist

But it's obvious IMO that foreman and 3 others totally IGNORED Juan's Closing !



Here is the video link [thanks to croakerqueen] :

[video=youtube;-bES5gmW4rs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bES5gmW4rs[/video]



start at appx. 37:28

Juan Martinez:

One of the things that they argued to you . . . is that she is going to spend the rest of her life in prison. Although it is not listed as a mitigating factor, they [the DT] did indicate to you that you could look to the circumstances to see if you find any mitigating circumstances on your own.

The State cautions you that you are not private investigators or advocates when you go back into that jury deliberation, to do your duties as jurors. What you’re back there to do is to find the facts. You don’t advocate one side – you don’t advocate the other. You don’t go out on a limb and you don’t investigate this to see whether or not there are any mitigating circumstances.

…

In terms of this case, there are no mitigating circumstances that you can find with regard to the crime.

…

If you remember when you filled out the juror questionnaire way back on December 10 – or a couple of days after that --


Juan is rudely interrupted by Willmott

…

But I ask you to think back to the juror questionnaire, one that some of you began filling out back on December 10, 2012.

And in it, it explained to you what the parameters or what this life meant.
You were told that life in the State of Arizona meant two things: Yes, it could mean natural life, that the individual who is sentenced does not leave the Department of Corrections until their death. But that juror questionnaire also told you that an individual who is sentenced to life is eligible for release at the expiration of 25 calendar years.

…

 

[rileysmom]

What is the next big case everyone is going to follow?

 

[atthelake]

Annnnd....

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This deserves about 5 postings!

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[Shelby1]

Annnnnnnd I wanna know if anyone has tried the pocket hose?? I am dying to try it,lol:seeya:

Sorry the pocket hose you posted did not show up..ugh.

I just bought one from Bed Bath & Beyond. I LOVE IT!!!!!:seeya:

 

[sacrablue]

Hello all. I haven't been on this thread today and no way I can catch up just now. I just want to write down my thoughts on the 'relationship' between Travis and JA. It feels like I'm the only one in the whole world who thinks like this


Travis died on June 4, 2008 knowing he had been so kind and good to Jodi. If he had even a moment to think about why she stabbing him I think the only feeling he would have had is one of confusion. ‘WHY ME?’

OK, why me. Travis must have had some warning signals. I believe he had friends that didn't want JA in their house. We probably have no idea what some of the other crazy things she pulled. How long did it take you as an outsider to understand she was a bit nits...couple of days, a week at the most?
The fishing was just too good, common sense has to kick in eventually.

 

[LambChop]

One of the many things that have bothered me is where did she get the money she deposited in her back on June 3rd? It was about $800 if I recall.
There was a guy on one of the shows that claimed that he lent JA money for the trip and she paid him back. Some guy she met at a bar. If that is true then my guess is the money had to go into the back to prevent her being overdrawn and if that is the case then how would she be able to pay back the money she borrowed. She barely worked and there is no indication that she got the money from working. One of the things I wonder about is if Travis had a lot of cash on him for some reason and after JA murdered him she went through his wallet and took it. It isn't a stretch to assume that JA would have done that and who would know? And I also think that there was a financial part of her premeditation in that she owed him a lot of money and was giving him a check for $200. $200 that she probably didn't have. She asked about the check being cashed when she was being questioned so it was on her mind. Not the primary motive for her but an added benefit.

One of the roommates did say they had just paid Travis their rent and Travis' wallet was empty when police found it in his office.

 

[Becky Sharp]

Annnnnnnd I wanna know if anyone has tried the pocket hose?? I am dying to try it,lol:seeya:

Sorry the pocket hose you posted did not show up..ugh.

We have one, I just tried it for the first time this week. LOVE it so far! Won't need it again for at least a week as it's monsoon weather here now, right Becky Sharp?

Hi Nash! I don't mind the rain--I grew up in B.C. where it's called liquid sunshine. And at least it's not snov!! Besides, it's washing away all the sand and grit from the winter. Like you, I've been hoping to start some serious gardening, but the V Day long weekend was too cold to do any planting. At least this wet weather allows me to postpone mowing the lawn.

And now, back to that serious stuff I get paid to do . . . :seeya:

 

[rob]

My 72 yr old mother watches HLN nitely, from7 to 10 pm. My 82 yr old father will sometimes join her. Till this trial. My dad can't believe a young woman would do all that Jodi does sexually unless someone made her do it, and no way could she do this murder, someone had to help her. First mom told him she didnt' want to hear his opinion, he must be crazy, but he couldn't shut up about it, so she banished him from the room. He has to watch tv alone in the den.
I think older men really can't accept what is real these days.

 

[atthelake]

Description of bacon buddy - please?

Is that different than lil buddy

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[atthelake]

What is the next big case everyone is going to follow?

My hometown favorite Andrea Sneiderman who lives two miles from me.

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