AK, NY Israel Keyes - Who are all of his victims???

[websurfer]

Hi, all. Read entire thread, have listened to and watched all interviews with IK, as well as all linked articles.

Quick response to "seeing for the 1st time," above. I'm kind of thinking not, because this is directly before the Vermont trip murders in June 2011. IK's obsession at the time was with perfecting his silencer, and using it his upcoming trip "back east." Then he got too excited to wait, and thought about trying it out locally. But the places he lay in wait were bike rides from his house, and, after the episode where the cops showed up, he shelved the impulse for a week or so. I extrapolated that this might well be a time he was expected to be a "regular guy," hanging out with his gf at home prior to the trip to ostensibly visit family. He also stated (and i found credible) that it was only after the Vermont trip that murdering didn't have a calming effect for at least 6 months. Therefore, I believe he had not killed for at least 6 months prior to June 2011.

-------

Stuff I believe about potential victims based on all info available to me:

1) All victims will be low profile, with none having generated more than a day or 2 news story

2) All will be either missing persons or non-missed persons. In other words, we are not looking for victims whose bodies were found and known to be homicides. One victim was found and ruled an accident.

3) Bodies will be either weighted in very deep water or buried or burned in house fires that were not ruled arson. May be dismembered. All bodies will be skeletal at this point.

4) There is at least one man who was traveling alone, probably hiking. (this I extrapolated)

5) One body is in Crystal Lake in Washington State

6) None are friends or acquaintances of IK.

7) I extrapolate at least one woman traveling alone at night on a deserted rural road. Probably more than one, as he said (rough quote, from memory), "people are naive, they don't expect something like that to happen'"

8) Not all trips were kill trips. This is my opinion, but it looked to me as though the pattern involved trips to check on or move caches; trips to establish caches; trips to revisit bodies and sometimes move or destroy them; trips to bury souvenirs. Some trips were only bank robbery or only lurking around abandoned houses and "staking out" likely areas. The finding of good places and the staking out were a big part of the behavior, and I got the sense he liked choosing victims and then being thwarted and having the self-control to continue the hunt. He used the word "shopping" in two separate interviews. Shopping, i think, was almost as fun as "buying." I also think he liked the godlike power of knowing that, if he chose, this person would soon be dead, but was somehow saved by a small hitch, and would never know how lucky they were.

9) LE should look especially at people who disappeared in severely inclement weather. The 2 cases we know details of were on very stormy nights.

10) He leaves town the day after killing. That means that some trips (like the NO cruise) are "distancing trips." The travel is not to a crime location, but from one.

11) I believe a large part of the driving is both targeting and nostalgia. I think he revisits the crime scenes every few years, moves some stuff from one place to another.

12) I also think he stalked, but not in the more familiar way. I think he stalked over years sometimes. In other words, he may well have seen the Curriers in 2009 and filed them as possible targets in his mind. I think he revisited potential targets as well as sites of crimes and remains.

13) The crimes are not as random as they seem. He actually had about 5 U.S. "comfort zones" (NW, NE, California-Nevada-Arizona-Texas area, Wyoming, Indiana). I believe that, within those areas, he had a set of places he visited when he was there.

14) Interesting that he used his own name to rent cars, motels, and post on online message boards.

15) The overall pattern has the feeling of some kind of board game or strategy game where you move things around according to a set of rules. I bet he had internal rules for how long he could keep, for example, jewelry, where he could burn it.

Remember how his original plan was to use the Curriers' car to rob several banks, return to Essex and park the car, and then, on his way back through Burlington several days later, both torch the house and move the car *to the very place from which he had removed the cache with the guns that he used to abduct them*, which place he had cached the guns two years earlier, after killing someone else, probably in a place that was also associated with an earlier time.

What I'm getting at is, this is not "random" -- it's a complex, personal, and symbolic sort of layered geo-historical fetish sites.

:twocents:
I read this blog :scared: http://israelkeyes.blogspot.com/


it has a story type format.
when I read that he had shot a cat he had tied to a tree in the woods and he forgot [I GUESS?) that others were there too..then they ratted on him to their folks..
he then became a loner? Ah...well...seems all serial killers are loners and they seem to pick on other people who are alone?
Back to your post.
I also agree with others here that he did [ as do most hunters] spy and keep tabs on their intended prey.
I am so boggled by his constant trips..here and there..driving so far,
and coming to what he called home?
It is very frightening to know that he may be one of a kind of serial killer we have just found out about?
That what we NORMAL people would not consider anyone doing in this way.
Too bad he killed himself, it would sure have been nice to let him talk more and give more info.
Now, i am wondering if maybe some sniffer dogs in locations he was known to have been, could maybe sniff his scent for the hidden CACHE buckets and stuff?
I know :banghead:
so many questions and so few answers...
a crime college class should take a look see at this case and maybe do some investigating and solving some of it for credits?

I also wanted to say..now that we know this kind of person is among the general population I will be looking over my shoulder a lot more no matter where I am shopping etc... getting gas....just everywhere..

 

[cynar]

Hi, seeing for the 1st time,

I see why you thought Madison fit the pattern. The car rental (from Juneau) was a full month before, however, for just 2 days until April 25.

There is one missing person who others posted earlier on this thread that I thought was a good candidate.

One was a man missing from a small town southwest of Dallas, didn't show up for work on i think February 15th 2012, car found empty. IK had been driving around S of Dallas on "February 13, 14"; this is the time of the arson and bank robbery in towns SE of Dallas.

http://www.news-journal.com/henders...cle_866abdbe-8494-11e1-a7d1-001a4bcf887a.html

http://www.news-journal.com/news/po...cle_496201b2-a80d-5ae1-a4b4-02a0a49ddbdf.html

I can find no more recent updates as to whether this man was subsequently found.

The time frame and pattern-fit is so perfect; the only thing that gives me pause is that IK said he did not kill anyone in TX on that trip. I got a distinct sense that he lied mainly by omission, and such direct statements were usually *technically* true. In other words, perhaps he killed someone in a neighboring state. But he did say, in regard to the bank robbery/arson spree, when investigators directly pressed about whether he'd also killed someone, "no, that was all the excitement there was on that trip" (feb 12-16 2012).

So, given what I believe about his communication style, the only way he could have killed this guy was if he had taken him out of state to kill him, and if the episode was not exciting for some reason.

 

[liz b.]

Sure, he had the skills I'm sure. But certainly the FBI would have recovered evidence of this on his computer.

I read that IK would follow his victims' cases on library computers.Or sometimes airport computers. So,perhaps it's logical to assume that he also used library computers to cyberstalk victims prior to abducting them ? jmo moo

 

[websurfer]

FBI Releases Keyes Timeline, Asks for Public's Help

"Keyes admitted responsibility for robbing several banks during this time frame, two of which investigators have corroborated. Keyes used the proceeds from his bank robberies to pay for his travel, along with money he made as a general contractor. Keyes also admitted traveling to various locations to leave supplies he planned to use in a future crime. Keyes buried caches throughout the United States. The FBI has recovered two caches buried by Keyes – one in Eagle River, Alaska and one near Blakes Falls Reservoir in New York. The caches contained weapons and other items used to dispose of bodies. Keyes indicated the other caches he buried throughout the U.S. contain weapons, money, and items used to dispose of victims.
Investigators believe that Keyes did not know any of his victims prior to their abductions. He described several remote locations that he frequented to look for victims – parks, campgrounds, trailheads, cemeteries, boating areas, etc. Keyes also told investigators that prior to the Currier case, his victims’ disappearance received little if any media coverage. Based on his own research, Keyes stated that one of his victims has been recovered but authorities ruled the death accidental. Investigators have not identified this victim or where this crime occurred."

Lots more at link. Here's the timeline:

10/05/2004 to 10/16/2004 Eastern US
04/20/2005 to 04/25/2005 WA, British Columbia
05/10/2006 to 05/15/2006 Western US
09/01/2006 to 09/07/2006 Alaska
10/21/2006 to 10/23/2006 Western US, Mexico
11/08/2006 to 11/16/2006 Alaska
02/05/2007 to 02/08/2007 Southwest US
03/01/2007 to 03/09/2007 WA, Canada (drove to Alaska)
04/24/2007 to 05/04/2007 Western US, Mexico
08/26/2007 to 09/06/2007 Western US
10/29/2007 to 11/02/2007 Western US
11/12/2007 to 11/13/2007 Western US
12/04/2007 to 12/17/2007 Midwest and Western US
01/05/2008 to 01/08/2008 Western US
01/28/2008 to 02/15/2008 Southern US and Western US
05/11/2008 to 05/17/2008 Western US
07/03/2008 to 07/07/2008 Western US
09/16/2008 to 09/24/2008 Western US
10/24/2008 to 11/05/2008 Southwest US, Midwest US and Western US
12/05/2008 to 12/07/2008 Hawaii
12/11/2008 to 12/25/2008 Mexico
02/23/2009 to 02/27/2009 Western US
04/01/2009 to 04/14/2009 Eastern US, Western US
09/11/2009 to 10/03/2009 Southern US
12/17/2009 to 12/29/2009 Southern US
01/11/2010 to 02/25/2010 Western US
03/01/2010 to 03/10/2010 Western US
04/24/2010 to 04/30/2010 Western US
05/19/2010 to 07/18/2010 Midwest US and Western US
07/18/2010 to 07/22/2010 Southwest US
10/15/2010 to 10/25/2010 Midwest US, Eastern US
06/02/2011 to 06/16/2011 Midwest US, Eastern US
09/15/2011 to 09/25/2011 Western US
02/02/2012 to 02/18/2012 Southern US
03/06/2012 to 03/13/2012 Southwestern and Southern US


http://www.ktva.com/home/outbound-x...Asks-for-Publics-Help-181933141.html?strypg=2

:lookingitup::hiding:verreaction:


And nobody who knew him saw any of this going on?
Or did they just ignore it maybe?
:twocents:

 

[Foxfire]

:twocents:
I read this blog :scared: http://israelkeyes.blogspot.com/


it has a story type format.
when I read that he had shot a cat he had tied to a tree in the woods and he forgot [I GUESS?) that others were there too..then they ratted on him to their folks..
he then became a loner? Ah...well...seems all serial killers are loners and they seem to pick on other people who are alone?
Back to your post.
I also agree with others here that he did [ as do most hunters] spy and keep tabs on their intended prey.
I am so boggled by his constant trips..here and there..driving so far,
and coming to what he called home?
It is very frightening to know that he may be one of a kind of serial killer we have just found out about?
That what we NORMAL people would not consider anyone doing in this way.
Too bad he killed himself, it would sure have been nice to let him talk more and give more info.
Now, i am wondering if maybe some sniffer dogs in locations he was known to have been, could maybe sniff his scent for the hidden CACHE buckets and stuff?
I know :banghead:
so many questions and so few answers...
a crime college class should take a look see at this case and maybe do some investigating and solving some of it for credits?

I also wanted to say..now that we know this kind of person is among the general population I will be looking over my shoulder a lot more no matter where I am shopping etc... getting gas....just everywhere..

RE: when I read that he had shot a cat he had tied to a tree in the woods and he forgot [I GUESS?) that others were there too

Cat>Feline>Female>Overbearing/Protective Mother...jmo

RE: It is very frightening to know that he may be one of a kind of serial killer we have just found out about?
That what we NORMAL people would not consider anyone doing in this way.
Too bad he killed himself, it would sure have been nice to let him talk more and give more info.

websurfer, Imo, there are many more Hybrids/Emulators such as IK, in our midst. IK, is not the first, last, or only. These stealth predators/serial killers come from all walks of life and have no boundaries; geographic or otherwise.

They are usually very disciplined/intelligent/street smart con men that study their craft and hone their skills with each victim devoured.
They are identified and apprehended years/decades later, and only by forensic technology upgrades, they violate their own self imposed rules, or by the determination of a very special/spiritual victim.. Malignant Serial Killers seldom confess....

Many of these elusive PHD Hybrid/Emulators will never be caught and many will go to their grave long before their identities are revealed.. Tragic Reality..

A Stranger In The House - NC Trucker Adam Leroy Lane "Hunting Humans ...
The part of Stranger In the House that deals with "Hunting Humans"

http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs...h&param3=dis_hk&p=adam+lane+nc+hunting+humans

_______________________________________________________-

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/april/highwayserial_040609

New Initiative on an Emerging Trend

04/06/09
Today, we’re publicly announcing our Highway Serial Killings initiative to raise awareness among law enforcement agencies and the general public about this issue and our unique assistance on these cases.

First, some background. The victims in these cases are primarily women who are living high-risk, transient lifestyles, often involving substance abuse and prostitution. They’re frequently picked up at truck stops or service stations and sexually assaulted, murdered, and dumped along a highway.

The suspects are predominantly long-haul truck drivers. But the mobile nature of the offenders, the unsafe lifestyles of the victims, the significant distances and multiple jurisdictions involved, and the scarcity of witnesses or forensic evidence can make these cases tough to solve.

ViCAP analysts have created a national matrix of more than 500 murder victims from along or near highways, as well as a list of some 200 potential suspects. Names of suspects&#8212;contributed by law enforcement agencies&#8212;are examined by analysts who develop timelines using a variety of reliable sources of information. <sniped - see victim map>

 

[Foxfire]

Sound familiar?


SCOTT WALKER: THE FROZEN GROUND from Shooting in Alaska to Honoring the Truth - Exclusive - See more at: http://moviesharkdeblore.com/site/movies/sharkbytes_view.php?editid1=125#.UhmRK_q9CcI.twitter

<sniped & BBM>

Spending 27 years in law myself, Scott, I have a different perspective than most to this story, and know the import of what Detective Glenn Flothe and Agent Roy Hazelwood accomplished, not only with Hansen's arrest and conviction, but with the criminal profiling and issuance of the warrant that led to that. And I remember when the Hansen story came out. Although minimal press was given to it, due in large part to confidentiality and as part of Hansen's terms of confession, it's pretty hard to suppress serial killings of this magnitude, especially when it's Alaska.

They thought he was the Green River Killer. In fact, Glenn [Flothe] spent a lot of time investigating - Hansen flew to Seattle, his parents lived in Seattle - so they thought that's what he was doing. Then they got to the point where they've done all the research and figured out, - No, there were a couple of cases where there's no way he could have, so maybe he wasn't [Hansen]. And the FBI involvement with Roy Hazelwood and John Douglas..

They helped Glenn [and] gave him the information for the first profiling ever which became this 48 page warrant which Pat Dugan wrote, who was Fairbanks' DA. They wrote that. It was an affidavit for a warrant based on serial killer profile which had never been done before. It's still the teaching today.

This whole case flew so far under the radar. Very few know about it. One of the biggest problems is that it was up in Alaska and even though Alaska is part of the United States, so many people forget about what happens up there. It's kind of like the saying "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." What happens in Alaska, stays in Alaska.

Yea. Yea. So right. And also part of Hansen's deal was no press. There's not one single photo of him from that trial. The only photo, which most people mistake, is the photo of him holding his jacket up. That's actually from an earlier arrest. He stole a chain saw and that's the photo from 1975 or '78. .

First thing the [Anchorage PD] commander said to me when he sat down with me is, 'Okay. I'm expecting to take a black eye on this. What are you gonna do to me? What are you gonna do to the force? Because we deserve to be taken to town.' Because this whole film could have been about how corrupt the APD was.

And how they let this whole thing slip between the cracks over so many years.

If you find Judge Ralph Moody who's the Superior Court judge who sentenced Hansen, he says, 'Everyone in the system has failed. From the lawmakers to the policemen to the psychiatrists to the public who watched this happen. Compared to what [Hansen] did, they were angels compared to him. This is the greatest indictment society as a whole has ever seen.'
___________________________________

"Silence by LE/Justice System via MS Media is the Predators most lethal weapon"...
'Ironically, the antiquated silence; close to the vest investigative & prosecution strategy is still being utilized by many LEAs/Judicial systems today, three decades later'...
'Silence only causes innocent victim's lives and mounting cold cases'...

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/29/us/slayer-in-alaska-was-jailed-in-other-cases-judge-notes.html

SLAYER IN ALASKA WAS JAILED IN OTHER CASES, JUDGE NOTES
Published: February 29, 1984

The man, Robert Hansen, 45 years old, had been arrested three times in 12 years, twice on abduction and rape charges, and released after serving nominal jail sentences, a judge said Monday in calling the case ''an indictment'' of the judicial system.

Judge Moody, citing Mr. Hansen's record of abduction and either attempted or actual rape, said, ''I cannot think of a bigger indictment of society than we have here.''

''This gentleman here has been known to us for several years,'' he said. ''We've turned him loose several times.''

Judge Moody and Mr. Rothschild said the defendant manipulated the system, lied to psychiatrists, lawyers and probation workers and counted on his image as a respected businessman to protect him from charges brought over the years by prostitutes who accused him of rape. 'Crimes Numb the Mind'...

On Monday, Mr. Rothschild told the judge: ''Before you sits a monster, an extreme aberration of a human being who has walked among us.
<sniped & BBM-read more>

 

[digndoodle]

I've wondered that myself Foxfire. When could he possibly sleep driving all these distances, killing people, kidnapping, robbing banks.....all in one trip! IMO he had to have some type of chemical assistance to get that done.

Digndoodle has commented before about speculation about drug activity simply due to some of his travel patterns.

Keyes was a known alcoholic and has been said by those who knew him socially to be very polite, quiet, but he was just an average Joe, but some also said when he had too much to drink, he became a whole different person like talking totally off the wall, doing weird things and etc...but from all the alcoholics I have seen, after they do their crazy "stuff", they tend to go off in that deep sleep type mode to help sober them up, but Keyes told his sister I believe it was at her wedding "You don't know what all I have done, what I have been through..I have to drink everyday to keep this off my mind"...may not be exact words, but close and remember in the last released article he knew he was getting sloppy and said he never used the home computer and he sits and CHUCKLES and then states he got to where with an EXTRA shot of liquor he would sometimes then go in the home computer and search for updates...so alcohol seemed to control his inside thinking
And Yes Lucky1....Some have highly speculated he may have been either a drug dealer delivering to various places...if this proves to be true, then maybe this could explain some of his many many trips also
Once again PLEASE let me remind you all, when they release a new article ALWAYS read what people comments..sometimes you will be more informed by comments than the whole article contains. I know it can't be posted here but that is where I found a very detailed route a man had wrote about and how IK had traveled those very roads on one of his trips and also he knew of a white truck that FBI had caught being shipped to and from Alaska on almost a regular basis, the truck was seized and was full of drugs but this cannot be proved, it was just this guy doing as we are doing here trying, searching and etc

 

[digndoodle]

It's so creepy to think that he may have been reading on threads here about people he killed that we have no idea he's connected to at all. Reminds me how scary the Internet can potentially be, particularly here, when someone starts getting close to the truth. Oh, holy.

You are so right, I have followed this case from the 1st day the released a photo of him and Samantha was not even known to be deceased then, only missing...the more I read, search, and etc...It totally creeps me out in the worst way possible, so much that I now keep my doors locked day and night..you just never know when a sick person such as IK might just decide to burst through your door and kill and now knowing he would often comment on various sites gives me a picture in my mind of him sitting at the computer and doing that awful chuckle he seemed to have, probably sitting there calling other comments dumb, foolish and etc....Internet can be an awesome thing for business and etc. then it can be the worst thing ever invented, stalkers of young children, murderers and etc....just moo

 

[digndoodle]

Does anyone else find it curious that IK had "big issues with our country's foreign policy"? This was in the tapes... he had enough of a problem with it that he got into it with people online. Anyways, goes back to my theory that there was some sort of logic (in his own head) to who he picked and why he did what he did.

100% Definitely find this very curious, but a few posts back I posted what is known as 2 of his favorite songs..One of them being titled NEW WORLD ORDER., I could barely sit and listen to this kind of music myself but the words just jump out at you after knowing the works of IK and just moo I tend to think he probably had this type music playing when he kidnapped and killed all his victims and if anything I think he really got into this type music...that might have been his inside adrenaline rush and he said when he took Samantha to the shed at his home, he turned up music so loud that if she tried to yell, no-one would hear her but this is moo of what really motivated this monster

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDihXQA7Gjk"]Megadeth - New World Order " Lyrics " - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW4rY1igteM"]Our Truth By Lacuna Coil Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Snoopster]

I have a question related to the chance that Blanche Campbell was a victim of IK. IK was still in the army in May 2001. How much time off do these people get? Do they get blocks of time off? or do they get 1 or 2 days off at a time?

If Blanche was murdered on a Tuesday night and IK received his DUI the next weekend, does this line up with his potential flexibility in the army? (Sorry, but I don't know much about being in the US military.)
Thanks!

 

[Foxfire]

IK is on JVM now....HLN

 

[Snoopster]

IK is on JVM now....HLN

If anyone can highlight anything new for those of us who don't h

ave access to HLN, it would be appreciated!

 

[Foxfire]

If anyone can highlight anything new for those of us who don't h

ave access to HLN, it would be appreciated!

Snoopster, you can watch part 2, prolly later tonight or tomorrow on your PC. http://www.hlntv.com/shows/nancy-grace IK Part 1


Snoopster, Imo, NG and her expert pundits are monitoring & getting their info from this websleuths thread.. As far as her and JVM's expert pundits are concerned, imo, they don't have a clue..nor do they want one.. Seems, their thinking is stuck in the 1970's and 1980's. IK, was a hybrid/emulator. BTK; Dennis Rader, Richard Ramirez; Night Stalker, and others were copycats of only one SK prior. The serial killers of the 21st century are much more complicated, creative, informed, and elusive, etc., imo.

When IK was first interrogated/interviewed by APD, he used the devil made me do it excuse, and then religion as his motive. Ramirez, used this strategy, except imo, he was honest in a dark sort of way. RR; night stalker was the devil's deciple, imo, and never rescinded his confession of being a satan worshiper. He recently died of natural causes on CA's death row..
I located a 10/1989 Gainesville Times newspaper in the attic of an abandoned house where GA serial killer gary hilton kept victims during frigid weather conditions. The paper was opened to an article; Night Stalker says to Jury, "Lucifer will Avenge Me".. He went on to say, "I don't expect you to understand me, I am beyond good and evil, Lucifer will avenge me"..

JVM HLN
https://www.facebook.com/JaneVelezMitchellHLN?ref=br_tf (video of pundits)

 

[bessie]

It is a TOS violation to sleuth other members.

Think about this for a minute. Is it really a good idea to search out those old posts and link to them so the members viewing this thread can draw parallels between the original poster and IK, a serial killer?

 

[CanManEh]

Bessie. Am I in trouble ...

 

[liz b.]

It is a TOS violation to sleuth other members.

Think about this for a minute. Is it really a good idea to search out those old posts and link to them so the members viewing this thread can draw parallels between the original poster and IK, a serial killer?

Bessie, TY for posting this. I do remember the threads in question very well. I am,though,extremely reluctant to search them out right now...will just say that,imo, there were many similarities in language. jmo moo

 

[Foxfire]

<modsnip>

K, TY.. It is estimated that as high as .05% of the US population is sociopath. Imo, due to meth and other factors, this estimate is very conservative..

 

[bessie]

Bessie. Am I in trouble ...

No one's in trouble, CanMan. You guys are all reasonable adults, but it's easy to wade out into deep waters when we're intrigued with a case. I just tossed you a lifeline.

 

[Foxfire]

Special: Greta Van Susteren - Fox News On the Record - Serial Killer Confessions/Israel Keyes Tomorrow 08/30/2013 at 10 PM est.

http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com...ack-to-work-i-may-be-late-but-i-will-do-what/

GVS
IF there is no strike on Syria by Friday, at 10pm, we will have a SPECIAL ON THE RECORD (if there is a military strike, I will do whatever I can to get back to work&#8230;I may be late, but I will do what I can)

 

[2Hope4]

I must stay hidden under a rock! First I've heard of this guy was on Dr. Drew just now. Well I guess it was a repeat from last night. But of course I hopped onto WS to see what's up, and good grief! 46 pages already! Maybe I best just read. As someone who normally doesn't lock doors. I just came back from locking my doors. EEEKKKSSS!!!