Crimewatch Reconstruction 14.10.13 2100GMT

[Linda7NJ]

Thank you for posting that. The overwhelming sense that I got from watching a few of their interviews, is that they think (or know) that's she dead. I never got a sense of hope that she's still alive, although in the last few minutes from the above vlip they sort of tried after direct prompting from the anchor.

It seems strange to me that they never once look directly into the camera and plead for the abductor to return Madeleine! I know it's not realistic that someone would just come forward with her, but I would think any parent in that situation would want to plead directly to the people who supposedly took her! They could have even added something like, you can drop her off somewhere safe....just pleaee please give her back to us!

Just one thing I found strange. They ask the public to come forward with any "information," any information whatsoever, yet never ask the abductors themselves to return her.

Of course, it could be something innocent like perhaps they have concluded in their minds that whoever took her must have killed her already. Still, if they don't know for sure, wouldn't any parent have hope??

They've always exuded that IMO

Something they said in the new program stuck with me. "Stay with us" and "give us what we need"

So little was said about their daughter. It's still all about them.
All IMO


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[goldengirl57]

That makes sense if you are the only one checking - you would notice if something wasn't as you'd left it. However, with at least three people going in and out it's difficult to see why the position of the door should have rung any alarm bells with KM. She wouldn't have known how her husband or the other fellow had left it.

The thing is was the door ajar etc is merely a clouding of the waters. Gerry McCann stated it on his 9.15 check i thought to match Tanners sighting at 9.20....

So really in hindsight if the door was moved at 9.15 are we then to believe the perb was hiding in the apartment until 9.55?

IF someone was watching the apartment if you go by the timeline of the tapas getting up and down like musical chairs, they would have been put off.....

 

[goldengirl57]

I am pretty sure the PJ knew where the crèche was

:floorlaugh: no no no they are stupid fat beer swilling omnivores.......lol **STATING by pro McCann forums** no me i hasten to add lol.

Of course they knew, they had already discounted Tanners sighting way back way its all in the files if one wants to trawl through everything, that is why eventually they closed the case.

Everything led to a dead end.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The thing is was the door ajar etc is merely a clouding of the waters. Gerry McCann stated it on his 9.15 check i thought to match Tanners sighting at 9.20....

So really in hindsight if the door was moved at 9.15 are we then to believe the perb was hiding in the apartment until 9.55?

IF someone was watching the apartment if you go by the timeline of the tapas getting up and down like musical chairs, they would have been put off.....

Quite the coincidence the whole door open thing and Gerry claiming the abductor could have been hiding in the apartment while he was in there or just missed by a few minutes.,..I agree ... It was to line up with Tanner.

Now, the Smiths time lines up with Kate's door open tale and Kate was there at almost the exact time she was "taken"

I agree... The whole tale is a steaming pile. anyone watching and planning an abduction would abduct AFTER the child was checked in on.






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[Linda7NJ]

:floorlaugh: no no no they are stupid fat beer swilling omnivores.......lol **STATING by pro McCann forums** no me i hasten to add lol.

Of course they knew, they had already discounted Tanners sighting way back way its all in the files if one wants to trawl through everything, that is why eventually they closed the case.

Everything led to a dead end.

I disagree. Everything lead directly back to the parents. They just didn't have enough or her little body to get a conviction. IMO


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[Inana]

I am pretty sure the PJ knew where the crèche was

Here is a quote from Catriona Baker, a nanny, about how many there were and where they were located.

I work in childcare - I was contracted by Mark Warner in June of 2006. The first time I went to Portugal was the 21st of March 2006 where I worked as a childcare worker in the Ocean Club Village, Praia da Luz. I went to a work interview and was contracted for one year by Mark Warner in June of 2006.

There are a number of infant clubs in the Ocean Club resort, where the children are grouped together by age.

The work in the clubs is rotated and the functionaries are changed over weekly. If a family is staying for a period longer than one week, I would stay at the same club to continue taking care of their children. The child is delivered in the morning by one of the parents who also picks him or her up at lunch time.

Some of the children return for the afternoon session which includes accompanying them to "high tea" at around 5H in the afternoon.


The age requirements of the various clubs are 3-11 months (baby Club), 12-23 months (Toddler Club), 24 months to 3 years (Toddler 2 Club), 3 to 5 years of age (Mini Club), 6 years to 9 years of age (Juniors Club), 10 years to 15 years of age (Kids Club) and from 14 to 17 years of age (Indies Club)

The Baby Club and the Mini Club are situated directly on top of the 24-hour reception. The Toddler Club is located close to the tapas Bar and the others close to the "Millenium" Restaurant.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CAT_BAKER.htm :crazy:

 

[aa9511]

I cannot imagine how frustrating this case must be for those of you who've followed it from the beginning.
If the McCann's did something to Madeleine, obviously the big question is how did they hide the body?? How could they have done it in such short of a time period?
I have a real hard time believing any abductor story, but if we think the McCann's did it then that story also has holes in it....

 

[Linda7NJ]

I cannot imagine how frustrating this case must be for those of you who've followed it from the beginning.
If the McCann's did something to Madeleine, obviously the big question is how did they hide the body?? How could they have done it in such short of a time period?
I have a real hard time believing any abductor story, but if we think the McCann's did it then that story also has holes in it....

IMO it happened earlier. Before they ever left for dinner, they had already hid her little body.


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[goldengirl57]

I disagree. Everything lead directly back to the parents. They just didn't have enough or her little body to get a conviction. IMO


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Yes I get you but then it led to a DEAD end....

 

[Linda7NJ]

This crime watch show.... Is it like Americas Most Wanted?



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[Inana]

Concerning the e-fits and suspicious persons in/around the Ocean Club, here is one excerpt from an interview given by a 12 year old resident (she'd be 18 now).

"Tasmin Milburn Silence ...that on 30th April at about 08.00 when she was walking to the bus stop, a trip she makes on each school day, she noticed the presence of a male individual, behind Madeleine’s apartment, standing on a path leading to the apartments and apparently looking at the balcony. This happened when she was walking down the road, on the left, the man was standing in front of the balcony, the distance that separated them being the width of the road. At this moment she saw the individual more closely, as she crossed, losing sight of him afterwards.

She saw him again on 2nd May. She began to walk up the road on the left hand side, seeing the individual at that moment, standing in front of the Ocean Club reception, this time looking more clearly at Madeleine’s apartment, she believes, at the two side windows of the house and part of the balcony. She directly observed the individual, from a distance corresponding to the width of the road. She describes him as: Caucasian, clear complexion, about 1.80 tall, slim build, aged 30/35, with short fair, shaven hair about 1 cm long. He had a big forehead. Nose of a normal size, sharp and pointed. Big ears but flat against his head. A mouth with fine lips, a prominent chin in what she noted to be a sharp face. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

She wishes to clarify. On the 30th of April, Monday, at around 8 a.m. and when she was walking to the bus stop for the school bus that leaves at 8.15, a path that she walks every day when there is school, she noticed the presence of a male individual, at the back of Madeleine's house, on a little pathway to the apartments that exists there, looking in an ostensive manner at the house's balcony. This happened when she was walking down the street, on the left side, which was right in front of the balcony, and the distance between them was the width of the road. That when she was walking down she decided to look at the pathway, because as she [previously] lived there, she likes to watch the house and the neighbouring garden. She walked with her mother, that she is certain she didn't see the man, and she was walking two dogs on a leash, which forced them to cross the road, a bit further down. At that moment she saw the man more closely, as they crossed the road, and then lost visual angle when they finished crossing.<O

She didn't see the man again at that time, nor did she see him again until the 2nd of May, Wednesday, after the bank holiday. That on that day she didn't go to school because she was sick with an infection in her right ear. Still, and feeling somewhat better, at around noon she left on her own, as her mother was at work, with the dogs, and went to the 'Alisuper' supermarket which is located on a perpendicular to Rua Direita, where she bought chocolates for &#8364;3,63. Then she walked to the pharmacy, which is located below the 'Baptista' supermarket, on a lateral perspective, where she bought a box of earplugs, to prevent water from getting in, and spent &#8364;4,55. Then she went to 'Baptista' supermarket to buy cereal bread, because they don't sell it at 'Alisuper'. She left the dogs tied at the back entrance of 'Baptista' and went in to buy the bread. She paid, left 'Baptista', collected the dogs, and walked across the supermarket's hall to the main entrance, approximately four/five metres, which exits to the street where she had seen the man.

She started walking up the street on the left side going up, and saw the man, this time in front of the 'Ocean Club's' reception, once more looking at Madeleine's house in an ostensive manner, where he stood he could observe, she thinks, the house's two side windows and part of the balcony. She thinks that he could also be looking at the other residences that are located in the same direction. Caucasian race, light skin, so he wasn't Portuguese, but could be British, according to her criteria.

Approximately 180 cm tall, thin complexion, 30/35 years of age. Short hair, like shaved with 1 cm of length and fair, but she isn't sure if it was blonde because the sun was reflecting, and made perception more difficult. She didn't see the eyes because he wore dark glasses of black colour, with a structure of mass, a thick frame. He had a large forehead. Nose of normal size, a bit pointy and sharp. Large ears, close against the head. Mouth with thin lips, she didn't see his teeth. Chin pointing up, which stood out on a face that she describes as sharp. No beard, no moustache, a clean shave. No other special signs, apart from some small pimples on the face as a result of shaving. He looked ugly, even 'disgusting'.<O
<O
The first time that she saw him he was wearing a sports style jacket of thin black leather, with a zipper and several pockets also with similar zippers, in silver. She saw no label or inscription. The jacket was open, therefore she saw a white t-shirt, with a dark blue label near the waist, which she cannot identify very well.
<O</O
Trousers, she thinks, of blue jeans, worn out. Sports shoes (trainers) in black and grey, with a wave, maybe 'Nike' in a colour that she can't remember. The second time, he wore the same jacket, this time zipped up, because the day was colder than the first one, windy. She didn't notice the rest of the clothing. She says that on that day he had a pen with a string attached to one of his pockets. The first time, he was leaning against the wall against his hands, and the second time, he had his hands in his pockets."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/T_M_S_AGE_12.htm

 

[Inana]

And here is another lead or at least a tip, that I found interesting:

Graham Mackenzie Occupation : Company partner Statement date: 06-12-2007

We didn't have involvement with their group for the remainder of our holiday and flew home on the Saturday (May 5). On the day of our departure we had to move out of our apartment and Mark Warner gave us another to use during the day until we left.
<O</O
It was across the road from the McCann's apartment and the public balcony overlooked the side of their building and the road. You could actually see the front and back of the building from that view point. I noticed on the balcony that there was a pile of cigarette butts as if there had been someone stood there for some time smoking. I thought that was odd , and it could have been someone watching the McCann's apartment to monitor their comings and goings. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm <O></O>

 

[Inana]

This crime watch show.... Is it like Americas Most Wanted?



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Yes. To me it's like Unsolved Mysteries.

 

[Stinneb]

More than 730 calls were made and 212 emails received as a result of the appeal shown on Monday night.

Among them were two independent callers who phoned police on Monday night with the same name for the man shown on the e-fit picture.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7331034.stm


I'd say it's fairly unlikely the callers identified the e-fits as JM...

On the other hand I am quite certain I can go to my local grocery store and find at least one and propably more resembles the efit Pictures. It's not like it's and extraordinary looking person. I even think it looks like Andy Redwood!! Not gonna call that in though :giggle:

Slightly off topic, but the Whole thing was just painful to Watch. And what was all that about that the McCanns loved their daughter especially much because she was an IVF child? I have two children from natural conception and I know for a fact I do not love them less or take them for granted just because I didn't have a hard time getting pregnant.
In fact I had them at a relatively young age and maybe therefore had not developed the need to go to a restaurant regardless of the children's needs and leave the kids alone in an apartment, crying (or worse apparently) etc.

It certainly did not change my mind about the case to hear these things. What a horrible argument "I could never hurt my child because she was conceived through IVF".
Makes no sense.... I hope they had better arguments to convince LE of their innocence.

 

[Gem2626]

IMO it happened earlier. Before they ever left for dinner, they had already hid her little body.


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So in broad daylight, in a country they didn't know very well they went and hid a dead Madeleine so well that she has never been found? How?
How did they then go out and act all normal all night until Kate raised the alarm. There is nothing that claims that anything was up with them, infact I believe the restaurant staff said they were in high spirits. You'd think if they'd just killed their daughter in one way or another and had to dump her body somewhere that something would be amiss.

 

[weeeva]

Well I can't believe that the McCanns are happy with this bit of reporting (accurate or not.) What were they asked, specifically? If they were really asked how often they think about her and the response is that yeah, we think of her on her birthday and family celebrations it makes them sound like they're so over her already. Perhaps the question was worded or understood to relate more to when thinking about her is the hardest or something like that.

IDK... It's just that when parents of missing children talk about how often they think about the disappeared child I am more used to them saying they think about him every day. They're saying they've suffered a lot of emotional damages so thinking about Madeleine once a year on her birthday and special occasions doesn't really fit that picture. Perhaps they said something else and this is just horrible reporting.


But I thought that Jane Tanner said that the abductor didn't look like a tourist? Why is this appeal centered on Holland, Germany and Britain?

According to Crimewatch Jane Tanners sighting was not the abductor, but a man carrying his sleeping child from a kids club. The new description is from an Irish family, the Smiths, who were on holiday there.
The Smiths gave this info at the time, but it was not taken seriously by Portuguese Police.

 

[Cherwell]

Doesn't one of the e-fits look EXACTLY like Gerry?? One doesn't, but the other does. I'm surprised few on here have said that?

Both portraits look like the same person to me. The only big difference is the shape of the jawline. As one seems to be almost cut off at one side, I'd guess that the collar or neckline of what he wore obscured the lower part of his face to some degree. That would vary with the POV of each witness, so one might get a better idea of the shape of his face than the other.

BTW I don't think this person is significant - just another parent taking his own child home imo.

 

[goldengirl57]

I thought this was very interesting its part of an interview done in the last few days with Goncalo Amaral....

BBC made a programme on the reconstitution of the events related to Maddie disappearance. How do you see the fact that the McCann couple and their friends have refused to do a reconstitution at the time of the [PJ] investigation?

- It's not a reconstitution. Or rather, it is not a reconstitution as foreseen in our Code of Criminal Procedure, which was rendered impossible due to the unavailability of the participants (suspects and friends). It should be recalled what the prosecutor of the Republic stated at the time of the archival of the process: with the non-participation in the reconstitution, the couple lost the possibility to prove their innocence. In fact that is what the reconstitution offers, the opportunity to enlighten and clarify any doubts, and it should be done by the participants, while alive.

In the investigation that you coordinated, were there suspects and identikits?

- The investigation had had three suspects. Some identikits were made.

......................................................

I wonder who the THREE WERE....

 

[Jmoose]

Both portraits look like the same person to me. The only big difference is the shape of the jawline. As one seems to be almost cut off at one side, I'd guess that the collar or neckline of what he wore obscured the lower part of his face to some degree. That would vary with the POV of each witness, so one might get a better idea of the shape of his face than the other.

BTW I don't think this person is significant - just another parent taking his own child home imo.

Me, too.

 

[Robin Hood]

From Goldengirls post -''I wonder who the THREE WERE....''

When Maddy first went missing a forum was set up to discuss what happened, it was called 'The three Arguidos' IIRC it referred to Mr Murat and Kate and Gerry McCann.

Edited to add this link
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/08/3-arguidos-forum-news.html