This is simply not true. The Diatom test could have been done to prove drowning and the Diatoms compared to surrounding areas for concentration and likeness. The other tests could have also been done. It would have been sound, intelligent, and thorough even if the tests came back inconclusive. The immeasurable measures forensics will and can go through to tell you if an animal from the prehistoric age died on spot are done and that vegetation, ground, and region has changed tremendously. They screwed up her testing and I will stand by my belief about this. Having inconclusive tests is better than missing vital proof of confirmation imo.
Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert
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IA IA - David Schultz, 53, Wall Lake, 21 November 2023 #3
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I agree and her case is bizarre. They mentioned dogs could barely get through a short distance of this 1/4 of a mile. They mentioned the area she fell would have only ever accumulated 3 inches of water if swamped during bad weather. So many more questions than answers.
I had thought of this the other night since this case is now wrapped around my head! I do not know police procedure or law regarding scouring hospital records and doctor visits, but as you mentioned they said the area is swamped wall to wall poison ivy and heavily populated with ticks. They also mentioned their dogs did not appreciate the area either, wanted to stay away. I mention this because if the suspect or suspect(s) spent considerable time in those areas, they may have many visits to the doctor for ticks or poison ivy. I believe you have to be sensitive to poison ivy to have a reaction. I would need to clarify this. It is too bad that they could not send someone in full body protective suit (they mentioned the dogs were getting cut deeply by the brush and infested with ticks) to scour the entire area of shrub for a blood trail and skin potentially hooded over by other vegetation and still left as evidence from her running through. If she was a big star or extremely well known, they would have done this search inch by inch.
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Most of the harmful deer ticks are over on Fire Island where the deer population flourishes. But there are the larger ticks that find their way onto cats and dogs. I had one on me as a kid and my mom brushed it with lighter fluid and it backed out.
Dogs will avoid poison ivy by instinct. People not familiar with it may walk into it once. PI has the ability to blend in with other vegetation as well and be hard to detect. I've had it grow with rose bushes and got mixed up in it. There are a few people that have a very bad reaction to it and you do build an immunity to it.
I never had it as a kid and I was exposed to it quite a bit, we always played in the woods and marshes. As an adult I've gotten into it a few times on my property. I was able to have OTC products to deal with it. I have a special bar of soap I use if I think I may have touched it.
As far as professional help goes, you'd have had to ingest it if the PI was burned and you breathed in the smoke. Something common in fighting brush fires. One of my sons gets it bad, we took him to the doctor once and he needed a cortisone shot. I don't know how searchable doctor or hospital records would be for PI treatments. But it could be narrowed down in the SG case.
Dogs will avoid poison ivy by instinct. People not familiar with it may walk into it once. PI has the ability to blend in with other vegetation as well and be hard to detect. I've had it grow with rose bushes and got mixed up in it. There are a few people that have a very bad reaction to it and you do build an immunity to it.
I never had it as a kid and I was exposed to it quite a bit, we always played in the woods and marshes. As an adult I've gotten into it a few times on my property. I was able to have OTC products to deal with it. I have a special bar of soap I use if I think I may have touched it.
As far as professional help goes, you'd have had to ingest it if the PI was burned and you breathed in the smoke. Something common in fighting brush fires. One of my sons gets it bad, we took him to the doctor once and he needed a cortisone shot. I don't know how searchable doctor or hospital records would be for PI treatments. But it could be narrowed down in the SG case.
ps149
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15 minutes was just an estimate of how long they were gone. At that hour, the 24 hour CVS in West Islip is only a 7 or 8 minute drive (less if you speed over the causeway as so many do!).
Do we know if a prescription was filled at cvs? My other thinking is to remove jeans, you would have to stop to get them off. have you ever tried to take off wet jeans? even harder. If someone was chasing you, would you stop to take them off?
fred&edna
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Well, I guess I'm picking nits, but my question is/was about location. Shannan and Brewer didn't leave Oak Beach so West Islip and Oak Beach must be the same place despite the fact a 7-8 minute drive between the two.
When deposed, Hackett allegedly volunteered that he owned a DEA license marked with an X, a designation that would have enabled him to prescribe certain opiates. Hackett also allegedly admitted to Ray that he regularly consumed a cocktail of self-prescribed opiates and other drugs. Stories of opiate addiction are common in Oak Beach, and Scalise and his family claim that Hackett was using his access to a prescription pad to subsist as a quasidrug dealer after allegedly being fired by the county.
http://www.vice.com/read/ghosts-of-suffolk-county-inside-the-bizarre-unsolved-case-of-the-long-island-serial-killer
SW35mmDoll
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Thanks for having me and the insight as well. 
SW35mmDoll
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I agree. I find it tremendously strange that he even had the mothers phone number to call.... let alone, why would you. I asked this earlier in this thread... really that much of an attention seeker. Strange.
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I'll have to time it this week. Traffic on 27A is light at the early morning hours, it could probably be done in 10 or 12 minutes. Oak Beach to the causeway is about 2 minutes, causeway to 27A is 5 or 6 if you speed. The run to CVS from there is 4 or 5.
ps149
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A few of us did this ride together a few years ago at 3am on a Sunday. It's exactly 8 miles each way. We made a video but had no way to post it.
Also, who says that they never left oak beach and that they were gone for only 15 minutes?
There is no legit source!
Vabrownid1
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All episodes of The Killing Season are now locked on A&E. I only got through episode 3; I'm not happy :gaah:
when the dr called the mother and said he "medicated" SG did he ever say what he medicated her with? I know he later recanted his statement. I apologize if this has already been said. I'm brand new. If she did in fact enter the cvs, I would think there would be video from the store that night that would shed light on her appearance and demeanor at the time.
Eadfrith
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I dont think the Moon would have made much difference at this point in the Morning. Shannan's phone call to 911 ended at 5.14am, she then goes to a neigbors house - Gustav Colettit, he calls police at 5.22am.
Sunrise is at 5.51am and so by 5.22 and presumably some minutes after that time too - we are well in to civil twilight, defined as and I quote "Enough sunlight renders artificial sources unnecessary for most outdoor activities" And it is of course getting lighter by the minute and with it being fully daylight even a few minutes before sunrise.
We dont know at what time she entered the marshy area, but it must be after 5.22am, it wouldn't have been fully daylight at that time but it certainly wouldn't have been dark and she would have been able to see where she was going.
Shannon's mother told authorities Shannon had 2 phones, a regular use phone and a burner phone for clients.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/09/police-second-man-partying-missing-new-york-prostitute.html
It is possible Shannon was there that length of time to mess around with Brewer first, (not into necrophilia) and the 2nd man who was staying came up stairs for the killing. Brewer mentioned she went to the bathroom and came back all crazy acting. Shannon may have overheard the two men speaking, and feeling already woozy from the night of partying, overhearing or seeing some interaction that led her to know with certain they were going to kill her, she freaked out.
I am thinking they confiscated her phone that was possibly laying out on a table, but surprise she already had a call en route to police on her regular phone. (They found one phone. Where was the other) She came out from bathroom already on phone with police. Their killing plan ruined, so Brewer called for her driver to come get her.
She may have picked up on an eye clue or other clue the driver was in on it. And she bolted not trusting anyone. The other girls lie so close and how nice for him to have a great spot a few miles down. The 4 may only be his kills and he buried them with opportunity with no knowledge another killer like the same desolate spot with the dismemberments.
Shannan was not a dumb girl, she was an honor roll student with a quick wit. She knew and could pick up on what was being planned.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/09/police-second-man-partying-missing-new-york-prostitute.html
It is possible Shannon was there that length of time to mess around with Brewer first, (not into necrophilia) and the 2nd man who was staying came up stairs for the killing. Brewer mentioned she went to the bathroom and came back all crazy acting. Shannon may have overheard the two men speaking, and feeling already woozy from the night of partying, overhearing or seeing some interaction that led her to know with certain they were going to kill her, she freaked out.
I am thinking they confiscated her phone that was possibly laying out on a table, but surprise she already had a call en route to police on her regular phone. (They found one phone. Where was the other) She came out from bathroom already on phone with police. Their killing plan ruined, so Brewer called for her driver to come get her.
She may have picked up on an eye clue or other clue the driver was in on it. And she bolted not trusting anyone. The other girls lie so close and how nice for him to have a great spot a few miles down. The 4 may only be his kills and he buried them with opportunity with no knowledge another killer like the same desolate spot with the dismemberments.
Shannan was not a dumb girl, she was an honor roll student with a quick wit. She knew and could pick up on what was being planned.
Agreed - no legitimate source. See photo of transcript of Shannan's calls. Interesting to note:
No calls for 3-hr period from 6:59 to 10:02pm.
No calls 2-hr period from 10:02p to 12:20a.
No calls 2.5-hr period from 12:25a to 2:55a when she called CVS pharmacy.
Supports the theory that Pak facilitated "intake calls" while Shannan worked -- because there is no client number listed. Or she may have had a separate burner phone for those. In which case, no traceable records.
(888-731-9645 is Taco Bell's 800 number.)
No calls 2-hr period from 10:02p to 12:20a.
No calls 2.5-hr period from 12:25a to 2:55a when she called CVS pharmacy.
Supports the theory that Pak facilitated "intake calls" while Shannan worked -- because there is no client number listed. Or she may have had a separate burner phone for those. In which case, no traceable records.
(888-731-9645 is Taco Bell's 800 number.)
Pak stated he argued with Shannan about going to CVS pharmacy because he didn't know the area where he was. 6 calls back and forth between them. This record seems to substantiate his story.
Still arguing with Pak at 4:09a? So did she end up going to CVS with Brewer after the last call to Pak?
If so, that makes their trip about 30 minutes there and back, and puts her back at Brewer's around 4:40. In 11 minutes something happened to freak her out and she calls 911?
Source: 48 Hours MysteryI keep coming back to:
- Shannon was certain and called 911 with certainty she was going to die
-Shannon was correct and she died
- If someone is screaming someone is trying to kill them and they are found dead it is difficult to pass it off as an accident.
-Brewer made a comment he was not guilty of this or this one??? He may have felt this way because she did not end up dying at his hands
- The roommate makes= they
-Team SKs one can go kill in different areas creating an alibi for the other.
-These crimes remind me of the duo in the 70s in California (forgot their names)
-There is (Hello!) a graveyard of dead prostitutes a mile or so down the road.
-Too much coincidence imo.
-Phones were banned by killer after this phone fiasco.
- Shannon was certain and called 911 with certainty she was going to die
-Shannon was correct and she died
- If someone is screaming someone is trying to kill them and they are found dead it is difficult to pass it off as an accident.
-Brewer made a comment he was not guilty of this or this one??? He may have felt this way because she did not end up dying at his hands
- The roommate makes= they
-Team SKs one can go kill in different areas creating an alibi for the other.
-These crimes remind me of the duo in the 70s in California (forgot their names)
-There is (Hello!) a graveyard of dead prostitutes a mile or so down the road.
-Too much coincidence imo.
-Phones were banned by killer after this phone fiasco.
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This is a possible scenario of what went on with SG that night. I have to go back and look at the timeline of which girl disappeared and when. Whoever the killer was, he probably was not acting alone. With the GB4, they were all loaded into burlap sacks, I'd call it a difficult task for a single person.
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