Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[JoWa]

Thanks JoWa for your comment, in this instance I think we may have differing of opinions, which all fine.

Have you seen the video connected to this clown - take a look.

[video=youtube;hHjGtBnSv50]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHjGtBnSv50[/video]

The link didn't work before so opened in different browser. Definitely creepy now we know about him.


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[Jezz]

I know the *advertiser censored* link is pure speculation in regards to BRE but the discussion triggered a memory of this very disturbing youtube clip. Ted Bundy, as he states had quite a normal upbringing with loving parents, no personal trauma etc. He says that it was (other than his obvious predisposing mental issues) *advertiser censored* that drove him to kill in the end as you become so desensitised and need more and more graphic and violent images in order to get off. Until finally only the real thing will do...

[video=youtube;Sb91eS_ADek]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb91eS_ADek[/video]

 

[JoWa]

All the ladies that think he's a little green Hoff Yoda.. I'm wondering if it's like a symbol.. as in the Hoff was known in his day as lady's man and Yoda is a Jedi master one if the best... So Wondering if he thinks he is a that and a bit more with the ladies I.e. a Jedi master of the players world... If that's true a would maybe add credence to the coercion theorys... jMO

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He is called yodahoff. Apparently his wife liked the hoff (was mentioned on previous thread) and I'm assuming he liked star wars like many his age.


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[MsAnais]

He is called yodahoff. Apparently his wife liked the hoff (was mentioned on previous thread) and I'm assuming he liked star wars like many his age.


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Before it was deleted, BE's FB cover photo was of him and two others with their faces superimposed on Star Wars Lego figures. I wish it was still up. I'd love to try to work out who the other two faces belong to. (it was one of the first things to vanish from his FB page after the arrest)

 

[silver tongue]

This is a 48 year old man who is the President and the life member of a large childrens athletics club from which he has won a prestigious community award, His wife of ten years has just left him four months earlier, He is three months away from having the Tactical response group kick in his front door,arrest him at gunpoint and charge him with a number of historic. murders and rapes. He has already IMO in a roundabout way alluded to these crimes on Facebook in the "must have been a naughty Boy in your younger days " Taxi black list comment to his brother.
The killer clown pic is not on his timeline for comment and a laugh-he has nominated it as his only cover pic -left for posterity with not much else on his FB acc at all-and the comment " everyone loves a clown ".
His stepdaughters comment can be interpreted as "take it down ,this is so not appropriate for you at this time" and the emoticons would indicate she thinks it is hilarious he would put it up now -not scared at all.
It has nothing to do with so called confirmation bias and everything to do with seeing known facts in the context of a larger picture.... this guys world is coming crashing down....his image isn't a normal family man and long serving Little Athletics president anymore.
John Wayne Gaceys Pogo and Patches the Clown characters performed at fundraising events, parades, disabled children hospitals and children parties and his memorable quote.." you know Clowns can get away with murder"



.

the only problem with this is if BRE new the fuzz were on to him
HE WOULD COVER HIS TRACKS the cops arnt that stupid ,makes for a good movie .... in real life .....no sorry

 

[lampformypath]

I know the *advertiser censored* link is pure speculation in regards to BRE but the discussion triggered a memory of this very disturbing youtube clip. Ted Bundy, as he states had quite a normal upbringing with loving parents, no personal trauma etc. He says that it was (other than his obvious predisposing mental issues) *advertiser censored* that drove him to kill in the end as you become so desensitised and need more and more graphic and violent images in order to get off. Until finally only the real thing will do...

[video=youtube;Sb91eS_ADek]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb91eS_ADek[/video]

SNAP again! As I was just reading about the Birnies and David Birnie's pre-occupation with *advertiser censored* and how he scaled up to abduction/rape/murder to up the thrill as it just wasn't enough, even with a very willing and submissive companion!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_and_Catherine_Birnie


"At 15, David left school to become an apprentice jockey for Eric Parnham at a nearby Ascot racecourse. During his time there he often physically harmed the horses and developed the tendencies of an exhibitionist. On one particular night, David broke into the room of an elderly lady where he was boarding, naked with stockings over his head and attempted to commit his first rape.By the time he was an adolescent, he had been convicted of several crimes and had spent time in and out of jail for misdemeanors and felonies. As an adult, he was a known sex and *advertiser censored* addict, and paraphiliac"

Very interesting read about them, goes into great detail about their pasts. As I have cared for some very disturbed foster kids I can see their stories are very similar to some of the things about the Birnies, very frightening.

BBM: That he often harmed animals when young, wonder if this is in the accused background? And note how young he was when he tried out his first rape on a sleeping victim at just 15? Sounds similar to a lad in Huntingdale.

Saw a very long doco about Bundy and how manipulative he was. Escaped twice from custody as guards were so lenient with him, gave him unsupervised access to a library which he promptly escaped from then got away a second time from the police as they just relaxed around him???? A cop sat with him one day and asked him why he did what he did and he said "Because I liked it!" That really says it all doesn't it?!

 

[MsAnais]

Saw a very long doco about Bundy and how manipulative he was. Escaped twice from custody as guards were so lenient with him, gave him unsupervised access to a library which he promptly escaped from then got away a second time from the police as they just relaxed around him???? A cop sat with him one day and asked him why he did what he did and he said "Because I liked it!" That really says it all doesn't it?!

RSBM and BBM

Exactly! I don't believe for one second that he had a 'healthy, happy' childhood, no matter what he said....there's lots of evidence to say otherwise. (his relationship with his mother seemed seriously unhealthy)

Many mental health professionals have argued that he was putting all the blame on *advertiser censored* at the end but that was not the full story. And that he knew that. It was just another installment of his manipulative game with LE and the public.

 

[petedavo.au]

Must say...i don't subscribe to any of these outlandish far flung theories.....i believe its simple really....sexual pervert tendencies..that progressed to rape...then killing for whatever reason...whether he had been ID'ed and done it as an attempt to avoid being caught...enjoyed the notoriety, the media hype and the rush....

Smug because he had gone all these years flying under the radar..and believe he well and truly thought he would never get done for this.....so....he is FUMING...

Its quite simple really and by throwing far-flung ideaology into it..is just complicating a simple, but macabre, disturbing and sad situation. MOO of course

You obviously hadn't read far enough back in the CSK threads where the question was posed "why do you think the CSK murders stopped?" And many ideas were canvassed but the one that suggested that the CSK went onto dogging, or BDSM, online dating etc is one theory that is sleuthable.
But web sleuthing isn't about theorising, except proposing avenues to sleuth, or finding connections to a case that have some basis in historical facts of similarities to these offences.
It's about slogging through online MSM and SM, and blogs and stuff to sleuth out the truth, and .maybe bring it the justice.
This isn't a general chit chat. If anyone's here for that or to rubber neck, harass, or just grandstand theories without sleuthing them out first, or showing a precedent, then I suggest they find their jollies elsewhere. IMO


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[petedavo.au]

I agree its very unlikely
Leaning towards some form of Telstra or land construction site nearby personally.


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I wonder if in the Telstra archives there's maps of where the cable laying crews were working on each occasion? The accused could've found a trench ready for backfilling for SS, but struck out to find a wide/deep enough one for the others, or they had already been backfilled, so panicked and just dumped them nearby where he thought cable trenches were being dug.
Are any old Telstra work maps online?

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[Zedx]

I wonder if in the Telstra archives there's maps of where the cable laying crews were working on each occasion? The accused could've found a trench ready for backfilling for SS, but struck out to find a wide/deep enough one for the others, or they had already been backfilled, so panicked and just dumped them nearby where he thought cable trenches were being dug.
Are any old Telstra work maps online?


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I don't know about back then, but now days I've been told Telstra cable only has to be 40cm deep. But then could there could be holes for other Telstra requirements?

 

[lampformypath]

I don't know about back then, but now days I've been told Telstra cable only has to be 40cm deep. But then could there could be holes for other Telstra requirements?

Hey Zedx and Petedavo, think you're both onto something here! I said previously about the alleged CSK scoping out work sites for possible D sites. He might have been in a management position by this stage and had a crew/s so he could perhaps use one of the sites they were working at as a D site, that he'd never been near the site if anything was found, can't have been him. I'm sure WAPOL is seriously checking his worksheets etc. too.

 

[bessie]

ADMIN NOTE: Please do not sleuth nor discuss other members, current or not. As to the question which was just raised (post deleted because it brings a member under suspicion unduly), the notion is off base.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[SN76]

You obviously hadn't read far enough back in the CSK threads where the question was posed "why do you think the CSK murders stopped?" And many ideas were canvassed but the one that suggested that the CSK went onto dogging, or BDSM, online dating etc is one theory that is sleuthable.
But web sleuthing isn't about theorising, except proposing avenues to sleuth, or finding connections to a case that have some basis in historical facts of similarities to these offences.
It's about slogging through online MSM and SM, and blogs and stuff to sleuth out the truth, and .maybe bring it the justice.
This isn't a general chit chat. If anyone's here for that or to rubber neck, harass, or just grandstand theories without sleuthing them out first, or showing a precedent, then I suggest they find their jollies elsewhere. IMO


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Been here reading these threads for years..and have read them all...and BF threads...not here for my jollies or general chit chat...i come because I have an interest like everyone else here in the case..and am just as entitles to air my opinions and theories like everyone else is and does....

Just saying I dont believe in any of the outlandish ****...

 

[Perpendicular]

I know the *advertiser censored* link is pure speculation in regards to BRE but the discussion triggered a memory of this very disturbing youtube clip. Ted Bundy, as he states had quite a normal upbringing with loving parents, no personal trauma etc. He says that it was (other than his obvious predisposing mental issues) *advertiser censored* that drove him to kill in the end as you become so desensitised and need more and more graphic and violent images in order to get off. Until finally only the real thing will do...

[video=youtube;Sb91eS_ADek]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb91eS_ADek[/video]

I have posted about both topics prior so apologies for rehashing old stuff. Regarding Ted Bundy, my understanding is that he was from anything but a normal family; he was born an illegitimate child to a young mother who had him in a women's refuge, then returned to her family home where Ted was raised as her brother rather than son by his grandparents. His grandfather was supposedly very abusive in the household, so Ted would have been exposed to the primary male figure being violent, controlling and abusive towards the females in the household, which would have created a template for his understanding of power relationships and male dominance. He would have also experienced childhood trauma being exposed to family domestic violence, which significantly affects brain development and the ability to emotionally self-regulate. Antisocial behaviours can come about from dysregulated childhoods with ruptured or insecure primary care-giver attachments, initially it might be because they are 'acting out' to express emotional distress and becomes a more habitual behavioural pattern to seek attention. The impaired brain development, and lack of secure attachment can result in people developing poor levels of interpersonal empathy, but they also have higher tolerances for excitement and are more likely to be impulsive and seek out pleasure sensation through risk behaviours, so it's not hard to see how this lays the path to 'psychopathy'. On top of this apparently Ted 'knew something was not right' in his family, experienced a profound identity crisis, and came to develop a deep hated of his mother as he learned she had 'abandoned him'. It was also said that he had a huge chip on his shoulder about the family's social position and was a narcissistic striver from a young age. So, we're talking about a kid who was exposed to a most unfortunate upbringing and would have had a significantly messed up emotional development.

When he did that final death-row interview he basically abdicated all personal responsibility and placed it on 'hardcore *advertiser censored*', acting like a good concerned citizen, just another glib emotionless ploy from a profoundly psychologically damaged man with no grounding moral centre. Nonetheless, he was right about the effects of *advertiser censored*. We now know that sexual stimuli releases large amounts of dopamine into the brain along with other neurochemicals, and that *advertiser censored* is effectively mainlining sexual stimuli at levels far beyond we're naturally evolved for. After a while, the brain fatigues and doesn't create the same level of dopamine so a person often needs to seek out new and stronger material to achieve the same levels of excitement and stimulation. I would say that there are a significant number of men who have at least somewhat of a dependency or ongoing issue with *advertiser censored*, particularly because it is so readily available on the internet. Now, whether or not people have a 'moral' issue with *advertiser censored* is up to the user to decide, but regardless *advertiser censored* and the kinds of behaviours seen in it are normalised in users minds, and it is not uncommon for people to have 'cognitive distortions' about sexual relationships, expectations and performance. This occurs even in the minds of psychologically healthy people, but you can imagine the effect it might have when regularly consumed by someone with high sensation seeking tendencies towards risk behaviours and a poor sense of empathy for others where their needs are placed above the needs of others. So *advertiser censored* on its own does not an offender make, but it can be a contributing factor to an individual significantly predisposed to antisocial behaviour through childhood developmental issues.

I would feel very confident in speculating that the accused has a history of *advertiser censored* use. I believe that sexual excitement would have been his largest preoccupation at different stages of his life depending on the circumstances and that he would likely have been driving around fantasising about all manner of things, particularly all sorts of possibilities for himself, fuelled and justified by various cognitive distortions and beliefs. I suspect he is very private with this though, and while might have been distressed about a breakup with EE, that he also might have felt quite liberated to have space to himself to use as he pleased, which would have coincided with increased *advertiser censored* use. I also feel very confident that he would have continued to use *advertiser censored*, perhaps very extreme content only found on the dark web. I think he would have had an area in the house, spare bedroom perhaps, set up to be quite private for both gaming and other nocturnal activities, and that he would have been very protective and intimidating about this space. I think CGE would have found this very unusual and although frightened, possibly explored his computer setup while he was not there. This is all speculation, but I would bet that knowing what we've just said about neural wiring around pleasure seeking behaviours, that any WAPOL psych would have taken one look at a 48 y.o. man smack bang in the target offender age range with a highly unattended to yard but a private interest in gaming and computers and found it at least rather compelling.


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[Bethesda]

There are programs available which do online searches for people's activity - I did have a go at this and did not find anything. With BRE"s knowledge of IT (managing websites, assisting neighbours with their computers, online gaming) I think he would be quite good at hiding his ID. Or perhaps deleted once he knew WAPOP were onto him. Let's hope there is some computer history which can be tracked. All just my theory and opinion.


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in my humble opinion, he had absolutely no idea they were onto him until the TRG burst through his door that morning. No idea whatsoever

 

[petedavo.au]

I don't know about back then, but now days I've been told Telstra cable only has to be 40cm deep. But then could there could be holes for other Telstra requirements?

The accused was known to be working on HFC TV installing at the time according to previous posts, but then, being in a new area, he might of been aware of other underground utilities like water, sewerage, gas and power that are buried at different depths to not intersect. I'll check with my old school mate, as he was doing the same job as BRE in those years. I'm sure he had maps and stuff in his work bag.

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[Denario]

I think you all are reading way to much into the clown thing. It was a worldwide viral trend at the time to post pictures and dress up as scary clowns. Is it creepy? Yes. But I predict thousands of other people in Perth (who aren't accused serial killers) probably did the same thing. It's very easy to make something fit the accused post the arrest, (WAPOL do it all the time haha)
To me he was just trying to have a joke with SD knowing full well she is scared of them.

Edit - FYI that particular video has been viewed 80 million times on YouTube.

80 million!

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My how the 'worldwide clown trend' could work to the alleged's advantage. I believe the perfect excuse to put image up and make out its a joke. Just shows how easy it could be for an SK to pull the wool over someone's eyes.
(not saying this is the case, just open to all possibilities).

80 million - but how many switched off quickly? / loathed it? / slight morbid curiosity? / outright curiousity? vs liked it / SKs getting off on it? Would be good to see stats.
MOO


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[petedavo.au]

Been here reading these threads for years..and have read them all...and BF threads...not here for my jollies or general chit chat...i come because I have an interest like everyone else here in the case..and am just as entitles to air my opinions and theories like everyone else is and does....

Just saying I dont believe in any of the outlandish ****...

I was actually saying the same thing, in agreement, but in a different way.

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[DRT]

I wonder if in the Telstra archives there's maps of where the cable laying crews were working on each occasion? The accused could've found a trench ready for backfilling for SS, but struck out to find a wide/deep enough one for the others, or they had already been backfilled, so panicked and just dumped them nearby where he thought cable trenches were being dug.
Are any old Telstra work maps online?

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If there was cabling, I wouldn't imagine it was in the Claremont area unless houses were being knocked down for flats/units and more phone connections were needed. While Foxtel started in 1995, I am not sure if this involved change to underground cables.

In 1995 at the time of SS went missing most internet was dialup. From the following link it is quoted "In October 1995, Telstra commenced the rollout of its broadband cable network and launched FOXTEL, a cable television venture with News Corporation.

Telstra launched high speed broadband to the public through its cable service in 1996 and launched BigPond (an internet service provider) in November of the same year"

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Schedule A.3 of Telstra public submission.pdf

I don't know enough about whether any underground work is required to do cable internet in comparison to the standard dialup at the time but this may provide a reason.

 

[petedavo.au]

If there was cabling, I wouldn't imagine it was in the Claremont area unless houses were being knocked down for flats/units and more phone connections were needed. While Foxtel started in 1995, I am not sure if this involved change to underground cables.

In 1995 at the time of SS went missing most internet was dialup. From the following link it is quoted "In October 1995, Telstra commenced the rollout of its broadband cable network and launched FOXTEL, a cable television venture with News Corporation.

Telstra launched high speed broadband to the public through its cable service in 1996 and launched BigPond (an internet service provider) in November of the same year"

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Schedule A.3 of Telstra public submission.pdf

I don't know enough about whether any underground work is required to do cable internet in comparison to the standard dialup at the time but this may provide a reason.

I'm talking about the outer areas of Perth about the same radius as the other two dump sites where utilities were going in prior to land clearing and subdivision. In established areas like Claremont they strung the HFC cable up on the power poles instead.

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